Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (May Poll)

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

  • Remain a member of the European Union

    Votes: 522 41.6%

  • Leave the European Union

    Votes: 733 58.4%
  • Total voters
    1,255
  • Poll closed .
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OldCoals said:
I agree but some people just ignore the practicalities of mass immigration.
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They do, who do you think is giving us a nice tax boost without use having to pay for their education?

Economic migrants bring the labour we require to build houses (despite all this, 'stealing our jobs' nonsense, we are in need of builders, labourers and engineers) as well as pay a good fraction of the cost of the more expensive groups in society (those too old/young to work who require more health/education services).

I dont think it is healthy to ignore the practicalities of immigration, hence why i can acknowledge that they pay for the services they use and then some. I can see why it would hurt some peoples pride to admit that their child's education or granddad's kidney OP was paid thanks to the net contributors such as economic migrants.

OldCoals said:
Just becasue they pay their way doesn't mean that there are no issues with immigration in the numbers we are seeing.
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If they pay their way and then some and contribute labour to ease the strain on services, then the problem lies with the management of services and resources required for comfortable living eg. shelter, education, health services.
 
platypus said:
Nowhere near enough obviously, but I'd suggest the shortage of housing supply is really another topic, given successive governments failures to regulate the building industry properly in this area, and being happy for them to sit back on large tracts of land and just drip feed supply in order to prop the housing market up. Happy to debate it in another thread if you are..
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That approach isn't unique to housing. The precious stone market is another that springs readily to mind. If you restrict the supply of anything then the price generally remains static or rises depending upon demand. You recognise this very well, having just commissioned the construction of a house yourself.

No egg sucking intended BTW.
 
Avenged7Fold said:
They do, who do you think is giving us a nice tax boost without use having to pay for their education?

Economic migrants bring the labour we require to build houses (despite all this, 'stealing our jobs' nonsense, we are in need of builders, labourers and engineers) as well as pay a good fraction of the cost of the more expensive groups in society (those too old/young to work who require more health/education services).

I dont think it is healthy to ignore the practicalities of immigration, hence why i can acknowledge that they pay for the services they use and then some. I can see why it would hurt some peoples pride to admit that their child's education or granddad's kidney OP was paid thanks to the net contributors such as economic migrants.
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Just becasue tax revenues are up doesn't mean that the money is spent on public services.

Just look at the pressure the NHS is under. There are huge cuts in spending across public services.
 
OldCoals said:
Just becasue they pay their way doesn't mean that there are no issues with immigration in the numbers we are seeing.
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Obviously, and has anyone said there are no issues?

But as I've said before, if they are a net positive economic benefit then I lay the blame at the UK Govt for not utilising that benefit to invest in and alleviate the issues caused in the local areas affected by the large increases in population.
 
OldCoals said:
Just becasue they pay their way doesn't mean that there are no issues with immigration in the numbers we are seeing.
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Exactly. It's the pressures on local services etc... that always seems to get ignored in statistics. It's only "oh well they paid more in income tax than they received in benefits". There are far more effects to consider (positive AND negative).
 
OldCoals said:
Just becasue tax revenues are up doesn't mean that the money is spent on public services.

Just look at the pressure the NHS is under. There are huge cuts in spending across public services.
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Hence my last statement on how it is managed. We make cuts on these services and fill the gap with private outsourced labour through agencies as we need it, its a terrible waste of money that could be better managed. It ends up costing more and we get less out of it.
 
Freakbro said:
Obviously, and has anyone said there are no issues?

But as I've said before, if they are a net positive economic benefit then I lay the blame at the UK Govt for not utilising that benefit to invest in and alleviate the issues caused in the local areas affected by the large increases in population.
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I totally agree.

Immigration is good for big business, it keeps the labour costs low and the profits up.

That doesn't mean that it is good for the masses.
 
I dont doubt there are positive and negative effects, just the blame is better placed elsewhere and lowering migrants will put a financial strain which would lead to more cuts in these services and worse spending when outsourcing labour. We would end up with the same or worse standard of services if we cut immigration without making changes to the running of these services.
 
OldCoals said:
Just becasue they pay their way doesn't mean that there are no issues with immigration in the numbers we are seeing.
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No, and I didn't suggest there weren't issues.

I just think that people banging on about leaving the EU so we can "control our own borders" (whatever that actually means) are being naive or misguided at best, or disingenuous at worst.
 
Avenged7Fold said:
I dont doubt there are positive and negative effects, just the blame is better placed elsewhere and lowering migrants will put a financial strain which would lead to more cuts in these services and worse spending when outsourcing labour. We would end up with the same or worse standard of services if we cut immigration without making changes to the running of these services.
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So we should let immigration continue unabated?
 
Roar87 said:
I guess the main difference is that the non-EU people probably have a good reason to come here and are people we wouldn't want to turn away, where as we know nothing about the EU citizens moving here
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Based on what? They will come here through many routes from work visas through to marriage viasa etc.
 
Freakbro said:
Why, thank you :) but Alan Sugar runs multinational corporations, you were talking about small businesses (actually by definition what you were talking about are called micro businesses, but I didn't see the need to correct you :p)

I'm mostly self employed but am also an accountant/Finance Manager for multiple micro and small businesses (up to £1M turnover) as well as doing returns for many sole traders, so yes I do have a very good knowledge on business 'red tape' and employment legislation.
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As Lord Sugar keeps reminding us, he started out selling car aerials and electronics components out of a van before he made it big.

I apologise for that post btw - I am a bit grumpier than usual this morning and the comment was out of order.
 
More immigration figures!!! Again non EU immigration being cited as higher than EU. Again what is the right to remain though? Every single one of the EU migrants has the right to remain. Who are the Non EU migrants? People on student visas? (you know taking student loans and then leaving before paying them off, also an EU student issue I believe.) Aussie bar workers? Unfortunately the figures just aren't very useful.
 
You can't reform something that doesn't want to reform, that's why Cameron came back with next to nothing.
Its a divorce we need and remain friends for the sake of the kids, our own kids :)
 
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