Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (May Poll)

[Insanties_birth]

Your little anecdotes are irrelevant. A Swedish woman says? Really? An American woman says aliens planted a probe in her rectum. It's true, look it up, there's a youtube video and everything.

Get better sources and be more concise.

Well the problem is there was also a mayor of germany acknowledging the issues and showing he had little care for them. I see you ignored that one because it didn't fit your argument but hey ho slippery logic and ignoring the issues again. I can't waste time with people like yourself if you ignore it from the horses mouth and why was everyone clapping at that french (not swedish) woman if it was untrue and none of them felt that way? Oh wait, there was others acknowledging the issue too.

Still, there's been many issues such as the cologne sex attacks as well as a recent issue, the hidden schools I linked to as well but you pick a typically evasive answer to apply your blinkered view to. No surprises really. You asked what the situation was and when given a hint (and even told I wasn't trying to create a heavy case file of anti immigrant hate) you ignore it. There's no arguing with ignorance To make it clear again, I'm not trying to say immigration is in a state of destorying Europe, so that's why I'm not trying to get link after link to prove a point I don't believe but there are still issues so I was giving some indications of that.

 

[scorza]

So after we leave the EU, how do we control our borders differently? I don't mean the minutiae, I mean in general.

That's for the government of the day to decide on and be held accountable over. An example that I would favour would be (note: this wouldn't be my opening position in a negotiation - rather what I'd like as an outcome):

- Visa free travel for EU citizens for up to 3 months;
- No limits on the number of EU citizens who want to reside in the UK;
- Unlimited student visas probably OK as long as they can prove they're studying;
- Skills-based points system for work permits with no discrimination against any nationality for countries we have friendly relations with.

I would expect to agree broadly reciprocal arrangements for UK citizens in the EU and of course subject to review (e.g. if Turkey joined the EU).

 

[Zethor]

Well the problem is there was also a mayor of germany acknowledging the issues and showing he had little care for them. I see you ignored that one because it didn't fit your argument but hey ho slippery logic and ignoring the issues again. I can't waste time with people like yourself if you ignore it from the horses mouth and why was everyone clapping at that french (not swedish) woman if it was untrue and none of them felt that way? Oh wait, there was others acknowledging the issue too.

Still, there's been many issues such as the cologne sex attacks as well as a recent issue, the hidden schools I linked to as well but you pick a typically evasive answer to apply your blinkered view to. No surprises really. You asked what the situation was and when given a hint (and even told I wasn't trying to create a heavy case file of anti immigrant hate) you ignore it. There's no arguing with ignorance

Your little anecdotes are a few pixels in a 4k res picture, that's why they are irrelevant. To see the whole picture you need studies, reports from reputable sources, figures, facts. Boring stuff, I know, but without them your opinion has no weight.

 

[Insanties_birth]

Your little anecdotes are a few pixels in a 4k res picture, that's why they are irrelevant. To see the whole picture you need studies, reports from reputable sources, figures, facts. Boring stuff, I know, but without them your opinion has no weight.

Yeah, I'm sure the cologne sex attack victims, the kids raped in rotherham and other cities and the obvious issues with having sharia courts in the UK is going to mean absolutely nothing because little Zethor the ignorant said so. I'm sorry, you are free to disagree just like any one can but it's not that it has no weight, I even clarified many a time that I was actually not trying to say immigration is a huge issue (although the edit did come in just after your quotation of my post but not before the initial post made it clear anyway) but rather there are just some issues attached to it. You asked what the situation is and then you say nothing has any weight? That is ignorance whether you are smart enough to acknowledge it or not, I never expected you to say 'omg there's a huge problem' but rather to acknowledge the specific cases raised but if even the specific ones are ignored then what hope is there for you?

Either way no worries, you have a right to ignore whatever information protects your narrowed view point and saves yourself from actually even acknowledging minor issues even if taking it with a pinch of salt Any more reason to debate when your words highlight how defensively ignorant you are to recorded issues? I don't see any so we can call it a day.

 

[Zethor]

What do your walls of text have to do with the EU?

 

[Chris Wilson]

Your little anecdotes are a few pixels in a 4k res picture, that's why they are irrelevant. To see the whole picture you need studies, reports from reputable sources, figures, facts. Boring stuff, I know, but without them your opinion has no weight.

You might want to be like a computer, others use their eyes and ears, and simply want less immigration, and what immigration there continues to be, be that of vetted desirables with a work ethic and no subversive baggage. They care not if you call them xenophobic or racist, such blather is water off a duck's back as it's untrue of most and a badge of honour to the rest .

 

[Insanties_birth]

What do your walls of text have to do with the EU?

My last 2 posts to you have been shorter than a full 6 sentances, again you manage to evade any criticism, evidence or ability to flexibly acknowledge you made a mistake (not a big one, not trying to even imply I won any argument here as it's more a soft discussion than a real argument) but you simply resort to sad insults that don't even apply in this discussion? Seriously, just take what evidence I posted with a pinch of salt as I know it's not a comprehensive argument against migration rather than ignore it completely, man up and don't act like a kid? I'll repeat it for a third time since you're grasping at straws, I'm not even trying to imply immigration is at a terrible point, merely pointing out there are some issues that have showcased worldwide and are visible in recent history as per your question.

 

[Efour]

There you go, assuming everyone is irrational for having an opinion of other people. That is the problem that I was getting at, xenophobia and racism at the moment are weighted words to imply ignorance, irrationality and hatred / fear when there is no willingness to accept reason or evidence. I accept some people hate things irrationally but how many people are you going to prejudise against and assume are irrational and hateful to make it an argument worth mentioning? It's just another stereotype really and one that has become politically acceptable within the PC culture.

Again you quickly move to the 'oh nothing wrong with the foreigners, wish we could get rid of more UK people' argument too. Sure there's dross on either end but it's more an issue when cultures clash and it causes problems in regards to having a cohesive society such as the sharia courts or the hidden schools I linked to. You've even started talking about dole money like a gibbering loon, one minute you try and pretend nothing is being said and the next you're blurting out more commonly held stereotypes. Either way, I've stated it's impossible to argue and convince idiots and I'll stand by it, you only proved it by blurting out more ridiculous assumptions.

Its hard to find sense among the usual crap though hence the crap reply too.
Fact is nothing will change, even if it does.

 

[Insanties_birth]

Its hard to find sense among the usual crap though hence the crap reply too.
Fact is nothing will change, even if it does.

Fair enough, we all post things in haste so I'll accept you don't necessarily mean it all as negatively as it might have come out. Same with myself, sometimes we get in heated debates and say things but I agree, it's a tough call as to how much will change after the vote. In the end, if we vote to stay it's just agreeing to carry on as it is so even if a vote out isn't guaranteed to change the way we have freedom of movement it still remains our only shot before we lock ourselves in for 40 or more years of the same.

I envision a bright future on either end of the table but with the EU it's kind of like dictatorship, if you have a good dictator then sure it's going to seem like a good system but what happens when it's not got a good set of governments and we end up with laws that are very difficult to repeal? I like the flexibility and chance of changing laws should we find we no longer want them, I like having laws closer to the people and by people who most in the UK would actually know the name of (lol at harriet harman again) but in the argument of what will change then I feel we've got a far bigger shot when it's back to governance closer to the people, back to local law making and if we voted out there'd be a clearer message that the public is a bit tired of the migration levels. Obviously it makes economic sense to have a decent level of migration but it could go down somewhat.

 

[izzop]

Shock horror

The two sides in the EU referendum campaign have been accused of peddling "misleading" figures and "implausible assumptions" by a committee of MPs.

EU referendum campaigns 'misleading voters'

Glad that's been pointed out to us.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

Shock horror



EU referendum campaigns 'misleading voters'

Glad that's been pointed out to us.

ERMAGERD

TBF many people think its just one side peddling crap, which is why they decide to vote on the other. They should realise bothy sides are peddling crap and their vote should not be decided by spite for whoever you believe is dishonest, we are not supporting a team or a side but deciding for the future.

 

[scorza]

Still think Brussels isn't moving toward an EU army?

Steps towards creating a European army are being kept secret from British voters until the day after next month’s referendum.

The plans, drawn up by the EU’s foreign policy chief, foresee the development of new European military and operational structures, including a headquarters. They are supported by Germany and other countries as the first step towards an EU army.

Similar proposals were vetoed by Britain in 2011, although there are concerns that a loophole could allow nine states to group together and bypass opponents.

 

[StriderX]

If the remain side would be a bit less "throw a bunch of arbitrary scary numbers about xyz" and more how we could mold the EU to our will, then it might be interesting.

The leave side only has to say one thing and its ez mode.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

Still think Brussels isn't moving toward an EU army?

No one doubted a small force run by the EU made up of soldiers from different states, they doubt the idea that they are taking over each individual state's army.

Big difference. I am absolutely fine with a unified force, as long as everyone still has their own. Now before you start spouting your 'in 5 years or 10 years time' or your 'they are working their way there' nonsense, let me tell you that people are bored of speculation from media trying to stir controversy and even more bored of people linking speculation as a legitimate reason.

 

[izzop]

Still think Brussels isn't moving toward an EU army?

Have never doubted it...

EUNAVFOR MED

The goal of the EU is to become if possible a federal state. Once that has happened voting in a general election in the UK won't be much different to voting in your local council elections.

 

[inogen]

That's for the government of the day to decide on and be held accountable over. An example that I would favour would be (note: this wouldn't be my opening position in a negotiation - rather what I'd like as an outcome):

- Visa free travel for EU citizens for up to 3 months;
- No limits on the number of EU citizens who want to reside in the UK;
- Unlimited student visas probably OK as long as they can prove they're studying;
- Skills-based points system for work permits with no discrimination against any nationality for countries we have friendly relations with.

I would expect to agree broadly reciprocal arrangements for UK citizens in the EU and of course subject to review (e.g. if Turkey joined the EU).

So, we'd not be part of the EEA?

You see, this is the thing... the referendum is about leaving the EU, not the EEA...

Politicians are not telling people this.

 

[Chris Wilson]

Surely this EU "army" is undermining NATO and a waste of time and money? But the EU excel at both. I wonder how good this EU army would be, our own UK military are already hamstrung by PC nonsense? God knows how tragically badly a bunch of EU bureaucrats could run a recruitment process....

 

[Avenged7Fold]

Have never doubted it...

EUNAVFOR MED

The goal of the EU is to become if possible a federal state. Once that has happened voting in a general election in the UK won't be much different to voting in your local council elections.

Your right, i think my constituency should take back sovereignty and leave the UK. Why should i have to contribute to the big wigs in parliament when they are just interested in pouring money into their own pockets and in central London?!

I am sick of out of towners commuting to my home town and stealing our jobs!

The cost of living up north is so much cheaper than in Surrey, yet i know people who commute for financial benefit, just to take their money back to their borough and spend it in their shops!

If a bloke from Manchester asked me where i'm from, i wouldn't say England, i would say Weybridge!

 

[izzop]

Surely this EU "army" is undermining NATO and a waste of time and money? But the EU excel at both. I wonder how good this EU army would be, our own UK military are already hamstrung by PC nonsense? God knows how tragically badly a bunch of EU bureaucrats could run a recruitment process....

Recruitment has already been done across all in the EU. They'll have their hands tied once on the battle field by the ECHR

 

[scorza]

So, we'd not be part of the EEA?

You see, this is the thing... the referendum is about leaving the EU, not the EEA...

Politicians are not telling people this.

Like I said it's up to the government of the day. If we did vote to Leave the EU then it'd be hard for any government to ignore voter's concerns about immigration.