Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (May Poll)

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

  • Remain a member of the European Union

    Votes: 522 41.6%
  • Leave the European Union

    Votes: 733 58.4%

  • Total voters
    1,255
  • Poll closed .
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Soldato
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The change is the decision will be made in our best interests by our elected leaders knowing that they will be held accountable by us.

What decision is the UK currently prevented from taking by the EU, that would stop the flow of illegal migrants crossing the channel in boats?

EDIT:- admittedly this chain of conversion is over a page or two, so the context of the original question is perhaps hard to follow.

It was originally in response to this post.

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=29556610&postcount=3032

Nate
 
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Soldato
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I'm voting to STAY as this is the only sensible decision. I want to have the freedom to go and live anywhere I want within EU if I choose to do so.

All the LEAVE arguments are pure fantasy, and immigration will never go away as globalization is inevitable.
 
Soldato
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We don't have to accept the global standards. That's the default position, but it can be departed from if for a legitimate reason.

Well, actually we do need to adhere to global standards, at least if we want to sell stuff anywhere those standards are accepted...the same as anywhere. If we want to sell to India, we have to abide by Indian standards, same as how our banks operating in the US have to adhere to US standards. Same with the EU, if we want to trade there.

Problem being of course that we're told extensively down to every tiniest detail by the EU how ALL of our firms have to operate. Cue massive red tape, at huge expense for British businesses. A problem openly accepted by the Government. A British start up marketing company (as per the Newsnight economics special) wanting to sell to India has to sell to EU standards as well, which are by the way seriously bloated and therefore costly.

Add to the above that 1) Standards are increasingly going global anyway (ISO, for example, which funnily enough is based in.....Switzerland) and 2) we don't really have any influence in the EU anyway and the whole remain case (on this point anyway) just falls apart.

Feel free to check that exists by getting 'The Law and Policy of the World Trade Organisation' by Peter Van Den Bossche out from the library.

I gave an empirical study of how most EU trade laws are covered by international bodies (and as per above...) and you respond with an academic textbook. I'm not convinced.

I'd also question your view that Norway has more say than we do... they have an individual voice, but who's going to listen to that? Then who's going to listen to the common view of the EU? When does the EU hold common positions we disagree with when trying to shape international standards? Isn't it only a problem if we don't get what we want?

You say "the common view of the EU". What exactly is that? The problem is because it keeps getting bigger and bigger (6 countries to 28+ today) the EU now covers such a vast swathe of peoples/cultures/histories/languages, heck they're even going into Asia when Turkey joins. There is no common view across 742 million people (soon to be 800m+ when Turkey joins). Perhaps that's why nationalism is on the rise across the continent, French winemakers are hijacking Spanish wine tankers, Greece is mired in a depression (it's lost a quarter of its GDP since 2007), Italy's banking system is headed for a meltdown, a wider Euro crises 2 is on the horizon, and the list goes on.
 
Soldato
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Is it fair to say irrespective of the result David Cameron will resign as PM?

If he wins, or loses, there will be challenges to his leadership, and he might resign the way Thatcher did.
 
Soldato
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Nah, that's not fear, that's a likely outcome given the facts. The last time we got a vote on the EU was 40+ years ago. Back then the EU was 6 countries, today it's 28 countries with 5 more on the candidate list, one of which of course is Turkey. The EU recently promised to "rekindle" joining discussions. Assuming we don't get another referendum for a similar timeframe, it's fairly sensible to assume Turkey will be a member by then.
 
Soldato
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So from soon you just went to 40+ years while talking about Turkey.

Considering that UK has been member and part of the whole transformation of EU, it makes it a moot point imo.

E: I mean talking about what EU was back then and what it is now as UK helped/ was part of creating EU the way it is now.
 
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Soldato
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So from soon you just went to 40+ years while talking about Turkey.

Personally i'd say they're likely to join in the next 10 years. But even if it's 20/30/40 years you can't just assume we'd get another referendum before then. They're on the "candidate" list, and they're actively engaging in joining discussions so yeah, I do think it could be fairly soon.

Considering that UK has been member and part of the whole transformation of EU, it makes it a moot point imo.

E: I mean talking about what EU was back then and what it is now as UK helped/ was part of creating EU the way it is now.

I don't really believe that, Britain has always been on the sidelines and suffered a strained relationship. The EU has always spun on a primarily Franco-German axis.
 
Caporegime
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With good reason.

Yet 2007 still occurred, funny that regardless of our membership of the EU.

In fact, that mild disaster opened a gaping hole in the EU, one that was quietly "ignored" as it would have harmed the image of the great project, to believe that an army of self-righteous, bureaucrats saw nothing of Greek deception is humourous, but perhaps you/others believe that Goldmans is a power greater than the EU?
 
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Caporegime
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Is it fair to say irrespective of the result David Cameron will resign as PM?

If he wins, or loses, there will be challenges to his leadership, and he might resign the way Thatcher did.

No I don't think so. If he wins then I think there won't be any serious leadership challenge and he'll continue to the next general election and possibly beyond. I admit it's difficult to see how he could continue as PM if we return a Leave vote, even though he's said he'll stay on as PM.
 
Soldato
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Personally i'd say they're likely to join in the next 10 years. But even if it's 20/30/40 years you can't just assume we'd get another referendum before then. They're on the "candidate" list, and they're actively engaging in joining discussions so yeah, I do think it could be fairly soon.



I don't really believe that, Britain has always been on the sidelines and suffered a strained relationship. The EU has always spun on a primarily Franco-German axis.

Honest question as I don't know. Did people want referendum on EU membership before now? I don't remember any motion for one since early 2000 when I sort of started to follow politics. I think as long as enough people want another referendum then there will be one.
 
Permabanned
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I'm voting to STAY as this is the only sensible decision. I want to have the freedom to go and live anywhere I want within EU if I choose to do so.

All the LEAVE arguments are pure fantasy, and immigration will never go away as globalization is inevitable.

Wow, Just Wow.

No wonder this country is on it's knees with an attitude like that.

Don't you even care about the UK? Obviously not!!!
 
Associate
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Anyone know if anyone reputable has run any stats correlating pro-Brexit voters with opinions on the Scottish indyref? My completely anecdotal experience is there is quite a strong correlation between Brexiters and Better Together (certainly in England), which does have a certain delicious irony - watching them use almost exactly the same arguments but in reverse is mind bending.
 
Soldato
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No wonder this country is on it's knees with an attitude like that.

Hold on, we're on our knees? :confused:

One minute you're telling us we're the 5th largest economy in the world and strong enough to go it alone in the world and negotiate beneficial trade deals with every country individually because we're so strong....the next minute you're saying we are on our knees

Yep, the typical level of coherence from a Leave supporter :rolleyes:
 
Permabanned
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Hold on, we're on our knees? :confused:

One minute you're telling us we're the 5th largest economy in the world and strong enough to go it alone in the world and negotiate beneficial trade deals with every country individually because we're so strong....the next minute you're saying we are on our knees

Yep, the typical level of coherence from a Leave supporter :rolleyes:

We are on our knees cause we are in the eu & if we continue to stay there it'll just get worse.

Are you happy to keep giving 55 million pound to a defunked club that's giving us nothing but migrants & idiotic laws that do no one any good.

The typical level of coherence from a stay supporter is to walk blinding in to a referendum & vote the wrong way then when it all goes t its up they say ' oh I didn't think this would happen' Too damn late then.
 
Soldato
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If we were 'on our knees' we wouldn't be the 5th largest economy and the target for every person in the 3rd world to try and come here (as also claimed)

So you're just talking rubbish as usual
 
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