Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (May Poll)

[Caged]

I guess people read into how opinions are presented as much as what those opinions are.

 

[dalehitchy1]

Are you under the impression that the EU is some kind of not-for-profit organisation run by left-wing hippies who don't take a wage?

Is this the answer to my question? You've persuaded me to vote leave
Really though.... I'm voting remain. If however a plan was drawn up with trade deals, new laws that would be replaced, amended, and some sort of guarentee that the money we spend will be directed to building houses and health and education..... I would vote out in a heartbeat. Unfortunately... No such plan has come forth.

If I went to a job interview unprepared like this do you think I would get the job?

 

[estebanrey]

Do people still try to get ******** points by pointing out grammar and spelling mistakes while its mostly predictive on their phones.
Yep

Predictive text? This isn't 2005. Besides....

 

[Mulder]

They had the boss of Wetherspoons on the BBC and the reporter attempting to convince the listeners how they were totally reliant on EU workers asked him how many they had working in the company.
When he said around 5% of 35,000 the reporter changed the subject

Typical stupid question that doesn't mean anything. So what if he wants to leave and also employs people from the EU, the two aren't mutually exclusive.

Remain camp want you to believe - if we leave every EU worker will have 48 hours to vacate the UK. Any remaining EU citizens after this time will be arrested on sight.

Reality under Brexit - nothing will change in the near to medium term. They may require work visas in the long run, like in a lot of countries with sensible immigration policies.

 

[kitkat2015]

Lol I watched 5 min of that had had to turn it off. To be honest I didn't even want to give it that much time as it was shared via facebook saying 'youtube has removed the link due to terms and conditions so lets share it on facebook'.

If they are gonna lie before the video even starts then I don't really want to give it my time.

Maybe if you did give it some time you wouldn't be blinkered.

 

[estebanrey]

Is this the answer to my question? You've persuaded me to vote leave ��
Really though.... I'm voting remain. If however a plan was drawn up with trade deals, new laws that would be replaced, amended, and some sort of guarentee that the money we spend will be directed to building houses and health and education..... I would vote out in a heartbeat. Unfortunately... No such plan has come forth.

If I went to a job interview unprepared like this do you think I would get the job?

The point was that of all the money that member states pay into the EU, a proportion of it goes towards paying for the running of the EU itself and not handed back in subsidies.

You can't say you worry about UK Gov not using all of that fee to put back into Britain whilst supporting an EU already doing that exact thing.

 

[scorza]

European Convention on Human Rights Article 10

Article 10 – Freedom of expression 1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises.
2. The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.


Nate

Here's their definition of what constitutes 'hate speech': http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=URISERV:l33178

Hate speech

Certain forms of conduct as outlined below, are punishable as criminal offences:

-public incitement to violence or hatred directed against a group of persons or a member of such a group defined on the basis of race, colour, descent, religion or belief, or national or ethnic origin;
-the above-mentioned offence when carried out by the public dissemination or distribution of tracts, pictures or other material;
-publicly condoning, denying or grossly trivialising crimes of genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes as defined in the Statute of the International Criminal Court (Articles 6, 7 and 8) and crimes defined in Article 6 of the Charter of the International Military Tribunal, when the conduct is carried out in a manner likely to incite violence or hatred against such a group or a member of such a group.

Hmm, I'm not comfortable at all by this close co-operation between big government and big tech. I don't want the likes of Zuckerberg deciding what I can and cannot say This could quite easily include comments about not wanting to receive so-called refugees in your NUTS (Nomenclature of Territorial Units for Statistics) on this forum. Could for example this quote be classed as hate speech?

(on refugees) there are too many now...Europe, for example Germany, cannot become an Arab country. Germany is Germany. There are so many that in practice it becomes difficult

 

[estebanrey]

Typical stupid question that doesn't mean anything. So what if he wants to leave and also employs people from the EU, the two aren't mutually exclusive.

Remain camp want you to believe - if we leave every EU worker will have 48 hours to vacate the UK. Any remaining EU citizens after this time will be arrested on sight.

Reality under Brexit - nothing will change in the near to medium term. They may require work visas in the long run, like in a lot of countries with sensible immigration policies.

According to Channel 4, 80% of current economic migrants from the EU would not get a visa under the current rules the UK applies to the rest of the world. Now whilst I do think without the free movement for EU citizens rule in place our immigration rules would be loosened a little, without some kind of amnesty on the rules for people who arrived before the vote, some would have to go back.

 

[dalehitchy1]

The point was that of all the money that member states pay into the EU, a proportion of it goes towards paying for the running of the EU itself and not handed back in subsidies.

You can't say you worry about UK Gov not using all of that fee to put back into Britain whilst supporting an EU already doing that exact thing.

Yes I can.... When that money goes to pay membership to get free trade... Free movement, a better economy and security of jobs and investment for being in the eu. Once we leave we leave.... We have the POSSIBILITY of that going.

If you want to take that away... That's fine... But in doing so I want the security of knowing that all of that money we normally pay, will go to infrastructure, health, education, business investment, and many other things that are under funded. If they cant promise that.... Or don't have a drawn up plan in place ready to do that when / if we leave.... Then Its not something I will vote for. All I want to see is a plan in place and I would switch.

 

[[TW]Fox]

According to Channel 4, 80% of current economic migrants from the EU would not get a visa under the current rules the UK applies to the rest of the world.

Because we pretty much have very draconian policies regarding visas for the rest of the world - probably to balance the effect of the EU.

As a non EU national it is easier to get a visa for Australia than it is for the UK - and Australia is what people continually bang on about when they think we should have a tough policy..

 

[RaohNS]

Hate speech

Certain forms of conduct as outlined below, are punishable as criminal offences:

-public incitement to violence or hatred directed against a group of persons or a member of such a group defined on the basis of race, colour, descent, religion or belief, or national or ethnic origin;
-the above-mentioned offence when carried out by the public dissemination or distribution of tracts, pictures or other material;
-publicly condoning, denying or grossly trivialising crimes of genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes as defined in the Statute of the International Criminal Court (Articles 6, 7 and 8) and crimes defined in Article 6 of the Charter of the International Military Tribunal, when the conduct is carried out in a manner likely to incite violence or hatred against such a group or a member of such a group.

There is just so much wrong with that element. What you are not able to question some crimes but can others if they aren't recognized as such?

How could we have a reasonable and rational debate on any war without actually being guilty of hate speech. Our thoughts are in the crosshairs much more than the one person ever arrested for thought crime.

 

[Skunkworks]

Whilst this is great in idea... Do people really trust the government to do that.

You get to vote on the government every 5 years, you get to vote on the EU once in a lifetime if you're lucky.

 

[Mulder]

No one would have to go back. Acquired rights, yo.

I agree with Moses, for once.

After the negotiation the policy for EU/non-EU immigrants should be equal (not discriminatory as currently, equality for all!), but there's no reason to think there couldn't be an amnesty or preferential treatment for EU citizens who are already employed here.

 

[estebanrey]

Yes I can.... When that money goes to pay membership to get free trade...

Great, so the tax payer pays the fee and the private businesses gets a discount. Awesome

Free movement

Which is great if you're the owner of a business that needs cheap, expendable manual labour but not so great if you're part of the UK born working class.

a better economy

The UK economy has fluctuated between being the 3rd and 6th best in the world over the last 100 years. Being in the EU has had seemingly no effect on this. In fact we are in the same place today as when we joined the EU.

and security of jobs

Unemployment levels again don't appear to have been improved by being in the EU, natural forces (i.e local economic conditions) have far more effect. We had a lower unemployment rate the year before we joined the EEC compared to today for example.

and growth.

Wow, 3 in a row. Again look at the figures and there is no correlation between the UK's ability to grow and being a member of the EU.

Once we leave we leave.... We have the POSSIBILITY of that going.

There is also the possibility we might improve on all those things.

If you want to take that away... That's fine... But in doing so I want the security of knowing that all of that money will go to infrastructure, health, education, business investment, and many other things that are under funded. If they cant promise that.... I will not vote leave.

Do you not think that the budgets for those things are lower than they would be if we weren't in the EU? The membership fee is prioritized and everything else (like the NHS) have to split the rest between them.

 

[Caged]

How could we have a reasonable and rational debate on any war without actually being guilty of hate speech

By keeping the debate reasonable and rational

 

[Mickie]

Yes I can.... When that money goes to pay membership to get free trade... Free movement, a better economy and security of jobs and investment for being in the eu. Once we leave we leave.... We have the POSSIBILITY of that going.

If you want to take that away... That's fine... But in doing so I want the security of knowing that all of that money we normally pay, will go to infrastructure, health, education, business investment, and many other things that are under funded. If they cant promise that.... Or don't have a drawn up plan in place ready to do that when / if we leave.... Then Its not something I will vote for. All I want to see is a plan in place and I would switch.

Thought the draft was they called a Referendum based on the fact they'll have plans in place on a leave vote..

If we do leave at least the Gov wont have to worry about what the EUSSR want it to do regarding the things you've mentioned..

Anyway, I've been trying ask as many people at work about their opinions and most have come back leave but one bloke did think we should stay, I think mainly on stronger together but kind of fell apart once we started talking about how bad the Euro is for poor countries, Greece, Portugal & Spain etc...

 

[scorza]

By keeping the debate reasonable and rational

Who decides what's reasonable and rational?

 

[Mulder]

Who decides what's reasonable and rational?

Personally I don't think anyone should be prosecuted for writing a poem. It seems Germany's chancellor disagrees:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36047060

 

[RaohNS]

By keeping the debate reasonable and rational

Lol touche

What I meant was lets say I raised 3 genocides happening in WW2. One one fits the narrative. The others could be classed as going against what history teaches (that is in fact falsehoods, smoke and mirrors). That same argument could be twisted very easily into hate speech despite the fact remaining.

 

[RaohNS]

Denying things like proven war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide is reasonable and rational?

No, questioning what we are taught.

As an example I read something very recently on BBC kids section my step daughter was doing that I knew for a fact was just an outright lie and told her so and proved it. Even her teacher commented she didn't know that.