Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (May Poll)

[Skunkworks]

So to summarise:

Swiss vote to restrict free movement, Dutch vote no at the polls (notice nothing in the news about that recently...), Nationalism on the rise across the continent, Britain on the verge of leaving, another Euro crisis getting ever closer, people in Greece striking and writing "Free Greece from the European Prison" in public, but...... don't worry, watch this video and all will be fine.

 

[Sankari]

Dutch vote no at the polls (notice nothing in the news about that recently...)

Perhaps because IT HAPPENED IN THE FIRST WEEK OF APRIL.

'Dutch EU no vote has worrying lessons for anti-Brexit campaign'
'Netherlands rejects EU-Ukraine partnership deal'
'Dutch ‘No’ Vote on Ukraine Reverberates Across Europe'

Also note that they voted 'no' to a trade deal with Ukraine; they didn't vote 'no' to EU membership.

people in Greece

...still bitching and blaming everyone else for the problems they brought on themselves by evading tax and voting in overly generous governments.

 

[Outcast]

I said a cruise ship not the titanic, its only brexiters that think the world is ending due to the EU, we have only just sprung a leak :/

Whatever ship.. It's holed deep below the waterline and the water is up to the main stairwell.

I trust you remainians will be donning your tuxedos and sitting in deck chairs whilst proclaiming "Water - what water" ?

 

[Mulder]

Perhaps because IT HAPPENED IN THE FIRST WEEK OF APRIL.

'Dutch EU no vote has worrying lessons for anti-Brexit campaign'
'Netherlands rejects EU-Ukraine partnership deal'
'Dutch ‘No’ Vote on Ukraine Reverberates Across Europe'

Also note that they voted 'no' to a trade deal with Ukraine; they didn't vote 'no' to EU membership.

Those articles are all dated 7th April, over 4 weeks ago. Given the Dutch PM had said they would "never" ratify the treaty if the people said no, it's a bit strange to have radio silence since then, no? Maybe it's because it's all being hushed up (in typical EU fashion) until after Brexit so another EU ignoring of the people's voice won't be broadcast. This has been published in the UK red tops but I won't link to it for fear of being flamed.

And yes, whilst the vote was specifically about Ukraine, it only happened because of an anti-EU petition that gathered the required number of signatures (think it was 400,000) and as such the vote was widely seen as a way for people to express their dissatisfaction with the EU. From the first article you linked to "Ukraine was only a pretext for the Dutch Eurosceptic campaigners, who forced the referendum without caring much about the result".

 

[Third Opinion]

I don't think that is what he's saying at all. He's saying that if we get a majority "out" the government will find a way to launch more negotiations with the EU and a further referendum in the hope of winning that one.

I'm not sure that's likely to happen in this case, but it's happened before in EU referendums.

I really think he is spot on. They have already said it could take 9-10 years to leave the EU on a brexit vote.

That is ample time for a Government to claim they have negotiated such a brilliant deal for the UK we need another vote.

Lets also remember that Boris Johnson originally wanted an out vote to do such a thing. He has supposedly gone back on that but we will see, especially as an out vote will probably make him the next PM.

 

[flowrider99]

I really think he is spot on. They have already said it could take 9-10 years to leave the EU on a brexit vote.

That is ample time for a Government to claim they have negotiated such a brilliant deal for the UK we need another vote.

Lets also remember that Boris Johnson originally wanted an out vote to do such a thing. He has supposedly gone back on that but we will see, especially as an out vote will probably make him the next PM.

I have read that under the existing EU rules any country that wants out has to complete the exit within 2 years.

 

[Amp34]

Costa revolutionaries! They sit in trendy coffee shops on their iPads using the free wi-fi to tweet #ResistCapitalism.

The voting age should really be 25 to filter out most of these imbeciles.

SO remove the right to vote from those that will have to face the consequences the longest?

How about a better idea. Remove the right to vote from those aged 65 and up. They are least likely to be affected. On the plus side for the stay vote the most in that category will be voting leave.

Younger people in more internationalist, inclusive, multicultural and older people in more insular, isolationist shocker!

Alternatively we let everyone vote... Perhaps thats fairer no?

 

[Amp34]

Whatever ship.. It's holed deep below the waterline and the water is up to the main stairwell.

I trust you remainians will be donning your tuxedos and sitting in deck chairs whilst proclaiming "Water - what water" ?

If you want to keep using the boat analogies have you never heard the phrase "You step up into a life raft/boat rather than climb down to it". - I.e. don't abandon ship until you have no choice and the water is up to the railings...

The EU is no where near there...

 

[Tefal]

If you want to keep using the boat analogies have you never heard the phrase "You step up into a life raft/boat rather than climb down to it". - I.e. don't abandon ship until you have no choice and the water is up to the railings...

The EU is no where near there...

doesn't that get you sucked down with the ship?

 

[Metallifux]

I said a cruise ship not the titanic, its only brexiters that think the world is ending due to the EU, we have only just sprung a leak :/

Don't tell me you weren't on the Costa Concordia either? They could have used your hole patching talents.

 

[Amp34]

doesn't that get you sucked down with the ship?

It's more normally a phrase with smaller craft tbh. The point is you are safer on board than you are in a life raft most of the time, largely because many people abandon ship way too early, end up in their tiny life rafts, tossed around in the waves, when they could have stayed on board a damaged vessel and ridden out the storm.

A lot of people have died abandoning what turns out to be a perfectly seaworthy boat/ship. A classic example would be something like the Mary Celeste, but there are many more large and small vessels with less "mysterious" crew disappearances where they have unfortunately died after abandoning ship. Another rather sobering event was the 1979 Fastnet race - an interesting read if you're interested https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_Fastnet_race

Yes, there are some problems with the EU, some parts are still struggling after recession of 2008/2009, there is a major war and refugee crisis on the eastern border and the forecast for some isn't rosy. The water is going over the railings into the hull, but the pumps are still working and there is still an element of control. Stay put or jump into that inflatable raft and try and survive the storm in a much smaller vessel, being thrown around by the huge waves?

Anyway, these analogies are going a bit too far now. Guess when you run out of arguments to recycle it's always good to start debating about ships sinking.

 

[Tefal]

what do you think will happen to the EU if we leave?

 

[Amp34]

No idea. I don't foresee us leaving making as big a difference as some would claim, but at the same time it probably will make a difference. I'm more interested about what happens to the UK if we leave. But then, in reality no one really knows.

I'm going to vote in because I believe more integration worldwide is better than isolationism, free movement and the ability to work anywhere within the EU is a major benefit which we may or may not get if we left and I don't believe we will be any/much better off economically if we leave, but we could end up significantly worse off if things don't pan out the way Brexiters want. I also don't trust the current government (or particularly the previous labour government for that matter - the condems were a better alternative to both!) with regards to environmental, health, transport and human rights so having another organisation with some input on those things is a big positive.

Do I want a "United States of Europe" - no, at least not yet. Perhaps I'll change my mind in future, I don't know. Do I think it's heading that way? Perhaps, but not in the foreseeable future.

I'd be more likely to vote out if there was the option of a second referendum that could put concessions and deals after the two year timeframe to another public vote though. By that point a lot of questions would be cleared up (especially on the main points according to the public polls - immigration and free movement) and we would have a much more informed opinion on the matter.

 

[phil675]

what do you think will happen to the EU if we leave?

Eventually, France and Germany propping up all the poor countries.

On another note, Sweden is the next Greece waiting to happen, they are running out of money supporting the 8 million rocket surgeons they took in over the years.

 

[Mr Jack]

On another note, Sweden is the next Greece waiting to happen, they are running out of money supporting the 8 million rocket surgeons they took in over the years.

Sweden with 40% debt to GDP? Sweden which ran a balanced budget in 2015? Sweden with 60k GDP per capita? That Sweden?

 

[phil675]

Their welfare spending is out of control because they have been willingly importing people who don't work and cost money to house, feed etc. Taxes have risen massively, native Swedes who can are getting the hell out of there. Absolutely insane left-wing to the extreme policies. The country will be a total mess by the end of the decade, and for what?

And this is what people want all over Europe.

 

[Nate--IRL--]

Their welfare spending is out of control because they have been willingly importing people who don't work and cost money to house, feed etc. Taxes have risen massively, native Swedes who can are getting the hell out of there. Absolutely insane left-wing to the extreme policies. The country will be a total mess by the end of the decade, and for what?

And this is what people want all over Europe.

Interesting, I'd like to see statistics for this. For each category you mention.

"welfare spending is out of control " ? increase Year on year?
" importing people who don't work" ?
"Taxes have risen massively,"? What is the increase year on year?
"Swedes who can are getting the hell out of there"? Net emigration of Swedeish citizens?

Nate

 

[Mulder]

Below is quite a good crowdfunded documentary about how the EU really works:

Euromania Uncovering the EU

 

[thep02]

Sweden with 40% debt to GDP? Sweden which ran a balanced budget in 2015? Sweden with 60k GDP per capita? That Sweden?

No, that's the real Sweden, he was on about the mythical Sweden where every woman has been raped at least twice by one of the 8 million muslim military aged male terrorist "refugees" that have sunk the once great Swedish economy, that you read about on racist web sites.

 

[datalol-jack]

No, that's the real Sweden, he was on about the mythical Sweden where every woman has been raped at least twice by one of the 8 million muslim military aged male terrorist "refugees" that have sunk the once great Swedish economy, that you read about on racist web sites.

But don't you know that all is lost? Eurabia is just over the horizon... they're coming... *cue Lord of the Rings scene*