The Indoor Riding/ Zwift/ TrainerRoad etc. Thread
- Thread starter randomshenans
- Start date
Hi all,
Been looking for a turbo trainer but it's a minefield, did look in this thread but there's a fair few pages!
Basically I'm on a budget, so the cheaper the better. Also probably best to have one of the self standing variety as opposed to the rollers
If miraculously we can hook it up to any apps/cycle video that'd be cool
Budget is low, would prefer ~£50, but maybe upto £100
Been looking for a turbo trainer but it's a minefield, did look in this thread but there's a fair few pages!
Basically I'm on a budget, so the cheaper the better. Also probably best to have one of the self standing variety as opposed to the rollers
If miraculously we can hook it up to any apps/cycle video that'd be cool
Budget is low, would prefer ~£50, but maybe upto £100
Been riding the turbo a bit as my road bike is out of action.
It’s funny how I find I sit very slightly different compared to when riding on the road and find it harder to get the power/cadence quite the same. I can’t place it perfectly, I guess I sit back on the saddle a little more.
I must use more muscles/more of my body on the road and/or in a slightly different way to produce more watts. Perhaps it is the lack of deadspot and constant resistance also. I know I ride a higher cadence when racing which I just can’t replicate.
It’s funny how I find I sit very slightly different compared to when riding on the road and find it harder to get the power/cadence quite the same. I can’t place it perfectly, I guess I sit back on the saddle a little more.
I must use more muscles/more of my body on the road and/or in a slightly different way to produce more watts. Perhaps it is the lack of deadspot and constant resistance also. I know I ride a higher cadence when racing which I just can’t replicate.
Riding indoors this time of year without a fan?!
You're probably best looking at second hand Flow/Vortex smart - https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/10/annual-trainer-recommendations.html
Don't forget to factor in the monthly cost of Zwift/TR/Sufferfest along with additional things you may need - trainer tyre (if you don't have any old tyres), spare wheel (if swapping bike from trainer to outside use), USB ANT+ adaptor, TV stand, a fan or two, bike thong, headphones etc etc etc.
I can recommend the Vortex, I've owned one for several years and as a 'starting' smart trainer it's perfect. If your budget is an absolute and you need some other bits then the Flow Smart is a good cheaper alternative but only stores sell them, they're not generally sold online. Halfords & Decathlon spring to mind, not sure if Evans' stock them. Could be worth checking if your Evans' vouchers can be spent alongside other discounts, I used my British Cycling discount to get 10% off from Chain Reaction, for the £25 yearly BC membership getting 10% off a £630 trainer was well worth it!
My trainer recommendations are currently -
Low range: Flow/Vortex maybe KICKR Snap.
Mid range: Elite Direto (you get more trainer than going for the Flux like I did).
Mid/high: Refirb KICKR. KICKR CORE
High: Neo.
Riding indoors this time of year without a fan?!
You're probably best looking at second hand Flow/Vortex smart - https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/10/annual-trainer-recommendations.html
Thank you fof the info, I'll need to do some looking around and googling, particularly the monthly cost you mentioned?
I wouldnt intend on spending loads as it's just a starter build atm, no idea if it will go anywhere
The monthly cost I mentioned relates to the platform you're using - Trainer Road / Zwift / Sufferfest all have monthly subs.
There are load of other free training tools, you can even do things from a head unit controlling a smart trainer while reading an interval session from the back of a napkin (you found down the pub).
There's even some online 'world' platforms which are free - World Grand Tours springs to mind, but there are others too!
There are load of other free training tools, you can even do things from a head unit controlling a smart trainer while reading an interval session from the back of a napkin (you found down the pub).
There's even some online 'world' platforms which are free - World Grand Tours springs to mind, but there are others too!
Just get a basic mag trainer for £50~ It'll still work with apps but won't be controllable in the same regard. For what you intend to use it for though it really doesn't matter.
Don't bother with a trainer tyre or any of that ****, just make sure you have the specific rear wheel skewer, towel/mat and a fan and you'll be fine.
Had a good reintroduction to Zwift sunday morning. Had setup my bike again (had disassembled for bike trailer duties with the fans & extension cables going into the house), along with a new saddle (Fizik Arione R5 Open). So far soo good with it, some soreness but it was a big session, new saddle and I've been really lax riding recently (+ ill). Temps in garage where ok, around 15/16 degrees at the start and getting around 20 when I finished, can only ride in there in the mornings during this hot spell. Annoying as I want to get back into some evening riding to get myself back on track! 
WBR 3.0w/kg 100km. With the 7.30am start & finish at 10ish it fitted in perfectly with our routine (+ babies) so I can see me doing more of these! Shame it wasn't on Innsbruck as I've yet to ride it.
WBR 3.0w/kg 100km. With the 7.30am start & finish at 10ish it fitted in perfectly with our routine (+ babies) so I can see me doing more of these! Shame it wasn't on Innsbruck as I've yet to ride it.
I was probably over complicating it, apologies if so. I was thinking you where after a Smart trainer so you could use more accurately with Zwift/TR/etc.
True enough, it's for the wife primarilybut I may end up using it.
No worries at all!
I like the idea of being able to do that and haven't read up on it at all,so it was a bit of an open question.
It's a slippery slope as there's so many features!
You start just wanting a basic £50 trainer, figuring you'll do some basic intervals, then you get hooked watching videos/spin classes, then you find The Sufferfest so you want something more immersive, so you want feedback and power (Smart), you can then do more with Zwift/TR, so get hooked into the virtual training worlds, so you want more accuracy & feedback so go with a direct drive, then you want the best money can buy with cobbles feedback/climbing features... Before you know it, you're trying to justify £2000 on a trainer & full setup.
27.5 or 29"? Some mag's do, I used to run a 26" hybrid on a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine II. I also ran a 700C road bike on it afterwards, the resistance unit had different fittings where it would attach to the frame to allow the different tyre circumferences. I'm fairly sure the Tacx Vortex Smart I replaced it with had the same.
I decided to start the one of the Zwift Academy courses last night as i've never really done any long riding and this is my first time on a bike other than about 5-10 efforts back in March when i bought everything.
On a positive note, i worked a lot harder than i do when i just stick Zwift on with Netflix as it was giving me intervals to work to rather than me just pottering around in the Zwift world taking it easy. There's 49 sessions so hopefully will see good progress if i stick to it.
On a negative note, my power seemed to be jumping around a lot, particularly when going for the higher intensity levels. It'd tell me to aim for 270w and then one second i'd be hitting 330w and it'd be telling me to chill out, then the next it'd drop down to 230w and telling me to increase power. Yet i felt i was doing very similar efforts. It was on ERG mode, so maybe that needs calibrating? The other thing i thought was because i'm on flat pedals, could it be the difference in power between my left/right leg? With the power exerted by the right leg being higher causing the changes? I do feel i press harder with the right leg and then consciously try and increase with the left. I presume this is more of a technique thing.
Also anyone using the Apple TV 4K and an Apple Watch? Can't get Zwift to detect my HR
On a positive note, i worked a lot harder than i do when i just stick Zwift on with Netflix as it was giving me intervals to work to rather than me just pottering around in the Zwift world taking it easy. There's 49 sessions so hopefully will see good progress if i stick to it.
On a negative note, my power seemed to be jumping around a lot, particularly when going for the higher intensity levels. It'd tell me to aim for 270w and then one second i'd be hitting 330w and it'd be telling me to chill out, then the next it'd drop down to 230w and telling me to increase power. Yet i felt i was doing very similar efforts. It was on ERG mode, so maybe that needs calibrating? The other thing i thought was because i'm on flat pedals, could it be the difference in power between my left/right leg? With the power exerted by the right leg being higher causing the changes? I do feel i press harder with the right leg and then consciously try and increase with the left. I presume this is more of a technique thing.
Also anyone using the Apple TV 4K and an Apple Watch? Can't get Zwift to detect my HR
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Structure and really pushing your training onwards can be really tough, I've generally found when I 'Just Ride' I tend to just do longer spaced out power O/U and interval efforts. If I compare the power levels, TSS and Intensity to an actual interval session they're all generally lower, so for me a proper structured session will make me dig deeper and harder for longer!
Your power jumping around will be smoothing - I'm sure in the settings you can change it to something like 3s average? Should be fine for most but you may want to switch it back when doing really short intervals. A 3s smoothing will kill many chances of hitting 5s/10s sprint power levels! It's not uncommon for it to bounce around anyway - ERG can cause it if your pedalling is very smooth yet the gear combination to power ratio is at a certain point between 'steps' in ERG. This is all down to trainer accuracy and resistance levels. Usually just switching to a higher/lower gear will be enough to avoid/fix it, ERG just balances the resistance to your cadence so it'll feel the same but the actual resistance ERG is having to supply for that given power level is different. I would only expect the L/R power balance (variations in pedal stroke powers) to have an effect if smoothing was very low or cadence was.
Theoretically the power and resistance is being calculated/applied in pretty much the same place - the cassette/rear axle, so without a dedicated power meter capable of measuring each leg independently you'll never know. Even my 'outside' chainring based power meter, which measures both sides, can only guess at my L/R balance. It's never 50%/50%, but only occasionally as far out as 45%/55%. The fact it's estimating it by judging which part of the downward pedal stroke is each leg, the measurement is probably far less than overall 5% variation of my overall power figure (which is of course an accurate total of both legs) which would be also factoring in other losses. And that's from a dedicated powermeter measuring much closer to the power source - before much of the drivechain (which the trainer is measuring on the end of).
TLDR; don't worry too much about things, tweak settings (power smoothing) depending on what you're doing (if required) to get consistent displayed results, power is only useful (comparable) if measured consistently at the same source, by the same device in the same conditions. But even then you will see some variation.
Your power jumping around will be smoothing - I'm sure in the settings you can change it to something like 3s average? Should be fine for most but you may want to switch it back when doing really short intervals. A 3s smoothing will kill many chances of hitting 5s/10s sprint power levels! It's not uncommon for it to bounce around anyway - ERG can cause it if your pedalling is very smooth yet the gear combination to power ratio is at a certain point between 'steps' in ERG. This is all down to trainer accuracy and resistance levels. Usually just switching to a higher/lower gear will be enough to avoid/fix it, ERG just balances the resistance to your cadence so it'll feel the same but the actual resistance ERG is having to supply for that given power level is different. I would only expect the L/R power balance (variations in pedal stroke powers) to have an effect if smoothing was very low or cadence was.
Theoretically the power and resistance is being calculated/applied in pretty much the same place - the cassette/rear axle, so without a dedicated power meter capable of measuring each leg independently you'll never know. Even my 'outside' chainring based power meter, which measures both sides, can only guess at my L/R balance. It's never 50%/50%, but only occasionally as far out as 45%/55%. The fact it's estimating it by judging which part of the downward pedal stroke is each leg, the measurement is probably far less than overall 5% variation of my overall power figure (which is of course an accurate total of both legs) which would be also factoring in other losses. And that's from a dedicated powermeter measuring much closer to the power source - before much of the drivechain (which the trainer is measuring on the end of).
TLDR; don't worry too much about things, tweak settings (power smoothing) depending on what you're doing (if required) to get consistent displayed results, power is only useful (comparable) if measured consistently at the same source, by the same device in the same conditions. But even then you will see some variation.
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Well sunday came around again and I got prepared for a morning thrash on Zwift. The 100km session weekend before was really good for me - hard but felt like I'd made good progress recovering afterwards. So I was determined to do the same!
https://www.strava.com/activities/1766268571
Jumped on the WBR 3.0 w/k 100km, although had to use the late join as trying to eat breakfast & get ready for a 7.25am start when I didn't wake until 7 was a bit tight! Still joined within a few minutes and only 2 miles down on the others. My first ride on Innsbruck and soon after starting it was first time up the main climb! It was brutal splitting the group all across the mountain. Ride leader called the front group to stop at the summit and that's where the problems started... With the fast downhill afterwards most of those who'd stopped found themselves 2, 3 and some 5 minutes from the group. The group eased to 2w/kg but the draft effect was still so big that regrouping was going to take a while. Then a little further on as we reached the city junction a bunch of riders where taking back up the climb, while most of us turned left! I think I had a drop out at this point as when typing and trying to figure out what was happening I was riding solo. I pulled a U-turn thinking I was the one who'd gone wrong, only immediately to see the beacon and blob pass me on the other side of the road! I U-turned again but was easily 2 minutes down, quite a few riders around me. Some frantic chasing and most of the other riders had gone, no real grouping happening and gradually losing time. Later on I learnt that this split had affected 50% of the riders, things split again later on and at the final lap there where only 10 riders left with the leader... Some Zwift/group ride bug on Innsbruck which I hope they fix!
Looking around on the Zwift Companion app (or whatever it's called this month) I spotted a Team Italy Specialissima Race. I jumped into B and with around 3 minutes cool down was promptly smashed out the back of the front group lead by A riders. Without many in the race myself and a couple of C's worked well together catching and dropping others gradually shelled from the front group, even a couple of B's. Later on with ~10 miles left I was 11th of 20 riders in B on screen, I figured to jump into another race to finish off and this time I'd enter C. With around 80% raced I should've stayed there... ZP I would've finished 3rd in B as so many DQ. Cooling down in the pen ready for a WBR 4 Lap Flat I felt good, Zwift then promptly crashed just as the countdown timer reached 5 seconds! GAH!
Feeling pretty defeated I consoled myself with a Long Tempo training ride which I'd last done about 6 weeks ago. I dropped the FTP down to 250W (from 270W) and really dug deep, it wasn't quite enough as I had to take a breather after the 3rd interval. But settled in and finished the others. Putting that down to fuelling as I'd rushed waking up with only time for a handful of museli and a slice of toast.
Not many miles ridden due to the long climb and otherwise slightly rolling routes of Innsbruck. Still almost 150 TSS, so not utterly wasted time when what I'm missing at the moment is volume/training stress.
https://www.strava.com/activities/1766268571
Jumped on the WBR 3.0 w/k 100km, although had to use the late join as trying to eat breakfast & get ready for a 7.25am start when I didn't wake until 7 was a bit tight! Still joined within a few minutes and only 2 miles down on the others. My first ride on Innsbruck and soon after starting it was first time up the main climb! It was brutal splitting the group all across the mountain. Ride leader called the front group to stop at the summit and that's where the problems started... With the fast downhill afterwards most of those who'd stopped found themselves 2, 3 and some 5 minutes from the group. The group eased to 2w/kg but the draft effect was still so big that regrouping was going to take a while. Then a little further on as we reached the city junction a bunch of riders where taking back up the climb, while most of us turned left! I think I had a drop out at this point as when typing and trying to figure out what was happening I was riding solo. I pulled a U-turn thinking I was the one who'd gone wrong, only immediately to see the beacon and blob pass me on the other side of the road! I U-turned again but was easily 2 minutes down, quite a few riders around me. Some frantic chasing and most of the other riders had gone, no real grouping happening and gradually losing time. Later on I learnt that this split had affected 50% of the riders, things split again later on and at the final lap there where only 10 riders left with the leader... Some Zwift/group ride bug on Innsbruck which I hope they fix!
Looking around on the Zwift Companion app (or whatever it's called this month) I spotted a Team Italy Specialissima Race. I jumped into B and with around 3 minutes cool down was promptly smashed out the back of the front group lead by A riders. Without many in the race myself and a couple of C's worked well together catching and dropping others gradually shelled from the front group, even a couple of B's. Later on with ~10 miles left I was 11th of 20 riders in B on screen, I figured to jump into another race to finish off and this time I'd enter C. With around 80% raced I should've stayed there... ZP I would've finished 3rd in B as so many DQ. Cooling down in the pen ready for a WBR 4 Lap Flat I felt good, Zwift then promptly crashed just as the countdown timer reached 5 seconds! GAH!
Feeling pretty defeated I consoled myself with a Long Tempo training ride which I'd last done about 6 weeks ago. I dropped the FTP down to 250W (from 270W) and really dug deep, it wasn't quite enough as I had to take a breather after the 3rd interval. But settled in and finished the others. Putting that down to fuelling as I'd rushed waking up with only time for a handful of museli and a slice of toast.
Not many miles ridden due to the long climb and otherwise slightly rolling routes of Innsbruck. Still almost 150 TSS, so not utterly wasted time when what I'm missing at the moment is volume/training stress.
Couldn’t get out to the TT tonight.
I did the Team Italy race, just in C as I can’t put the watts down the same on the TT or get out the saddle and really crank it hard (afraid of bending the adjustment screws for the rear wheel).
Had a good race, I’m obviously slightly above the C grade level & posting strong 5 minute numbers. It was good to do some above threshold and recover efforts over an hour, I’d be pack fodder in B on the TT bike as I’d be at 3.5-3.6wkg for an hour.
I did the Team Italy race, just in C as I can’t put the watts down the same on the TT or get out the saddle and really crank it hard (afraid of bending the adjustment screws for the rear wheel).
Had a good race, I’m obviously slightly above the C grade level & posting strong 5 minute numbers. It was good to do some above threshold and recover efforts over an hour, I’d be pack fodder in B on the TT bike as I’d be at 3.5-3.6wkg for an hour.
Mine works, but it's the accuracy I had initial issue with, but I also got it when I'd lost fitness/power. Also the technique I had of racing on my Vortex (ramping up faster than it's power curve, overpowering it for surging on Zwift) didn't work on the Flux so I 'lost' an edge I had as well as power/fitness.
When I'd got my training and fitness back on track things had evened out, but I would say it is still reading 20-30W lower than my PWM on sustained long efforts and as much as 20% lower on sprints (not very often I see over 800W on it, can see 1000W on my PWM fairly 'easily').
My Flux has made some noises, but only generally when cold. The noises when warm seem to vanish, or only return on cooldown when cutting back sharply on power. Don't get any in intervals or racing.
For that price difference I'd say go with the Flux, if the difference was under £100 I'd say go for the Direto. I got my Flux back in January for £570 (Sale on CRC with 10% BC discount). They didn't stock the Direto at the time but couldn't get one anywhere much lower than £700. Would've got the Direto if I could've and even went through returns/RMA with CRC but as they couldn't do me a full refund without returning to Tacx under warranty, or replace with the Direto so I cancelled it.