*** The Official Diablo III Thread ***

[Teaf]

The rings I'm after, have a focus already but it's not great. Realised the rucksack a while back although previously had a different setup. With regards to the Kridershot, I prefer it to xbow as the sentries also cast elemental arrow unlike with evasive and focus so damage wise it comes into it's own on longer fights. Solo I find pretty boring but do need to work on templar gear - I never normally use him. Didn't consider sentry on shoulders so will probably change. What would be the best 3rd gem given I have BoTT and Zeis? Also, why phys on bracers?

A focus and restraint with only 1 dps stat each would beat anything else because the set effect is so good. Taeguk is probably the best 3rd gem but it's difficult to keep up and if you let it drop more than once every 30 seconds you're better off just using Enforcer or BoTP. Iceblink is a good solo gem for DPS and crowd control. He suggested physical on bracers because physical is the best option for solo play and shifting to Shooting Stars. Fire and Cold are great in group play. If you're playing group GR's and aren't speed running then my "Vault to Marked for Death" point stands.

Shoulders are best with: Dex, RCR, CDR (or Area damage if in groups), Sentry.

Area is bugged right now, probably best to stick with CDR. Fix won't come until 2.3 when they re-design Area Damage overall.

 

[Tephnos]

A focus and restraint with only 1 dps stat each would beat anything else because the set effect is so good. Taeguk is probably the best 3rd gem but it's difficult to keep up and if you let it drop more than once every 30 seconds you're better off just using Enforcer or BoTP. Iceblink is a good solo gem for DPS and crowd control. He suggested physical on bracers because physical is the best option for solo play and shifting to Shooting Stars. Fire and Cold are great in group play. If you're playing group GR's and aren't speed running then my "Vault to Marked for Death" point stands.

Funnily enough I still see only Physical in group play with Marauders - the extra rocket damage really helps it shine.

Edit: Ah, I figured something was up with Area.

 

[Drollic]

I like cold too much to want to switch to shooting stars I think... I should probably aim for a hellfire for the passive so I can take night stalker though. I'll make sure to switch out to vault when in GR's as MFD is fun.

 

[Tephnos]

I like cold too much to want to switch to shooting stars I think... I should probably aim for a hellfire for the passive so I can take night stalker though. I'll make sure to switch out to vault when in GR's as MFD is fun.

Alright, so you prefer what you like over the most DPS output?

Most of my recommendations were for maximising your potential so take or leave them as you will then.

 

[Bloomfield]

Yep, but it's still a flat 45% damage increase which is huge, especially when you're leveling gems and your supports are amplifying that even more.

The 1 point of discipline = 10% dmg increase is huge

Yeah, 15, whoops. It's not wrong because I said it is additive. It's your fault if you manage to forget that.

Depends exactly what you're trying to argue here. For most things, you absolutely want to focus on Disc. Sure, a quiver without CC is obviously going to take more importance over +3 disc. I don't remember the min-max on a non ancient krider so I can't say if rolling that is worth it over the disc.

For all debates regarding this though, this is a good pointer:

I'm arguing that those two top quotes are wrong. 1 point of disc is around a 1.5% damage increase, which isn't even close to what you're saying it is. I'm not forgetting that it's additive, otherwise I'd be saying something like "The 1 point of discipline = 10% dmg increase is huge".

So your quote shows that you don't just reroll the disc on a quiver because other stats can be significantly better.

You absolutely NEED 81 discipline to get maximum damage, the difference between +9 discipline and +12 discipline is huge, so much that a quiver without discipline and perfect mainstat rolls is infinitely worse than a quiver with no useful mainstats and +12 discipline.

12 Disc is around a 17% damage increase, unequipping my DH's quiver means I lose 33% of my damage (so dex + attack speed + CC = 50% damage increase), the attack speed isn't as useful as the other stats, but obviously I haven't included 15% skill damage, there's no way that a quiver without main stats that has disc is close to a no disc well rolled quiver, never mind "infinitely worse".

On my weapon, I'd only need to increase the average damage roll by 80 to be better than rerolling 9 disc to 12 disc. If your weapon doesn't have %damage then rolling that over a minimum disc isn't even close.

You seem to know that the bonus is additive, so I have no idea why you say things like 1 disc = 15% damage increase. Omaeka seems to think that getting 3 disc means you go from 1.4billion damage to 2billion damage though, which is clearly wrong.

 

[Tephnos]

...I think you missed the point where I agreed if you can reroll the damage range to be better than a 3 disc point roll, then go for it. I'm assuming a decently rolled weapon, because otherwise it's brown powder. Actually, you quoted it but said it's wrong. Okay then, lol. Again, I say 1 disc = 15% dmg increase because at its base, that is what it is. You need to account for it being additive and the more you have, the less it actually makes a difference over time. You're taking the statement far too literally and not thinking past what I put down in bare words. Or, you're assuming that people who read it are idiots and won't be able to figure out that it isn't nearly as much on paper because their stats aren't 0. I figured they'd get it because I mentioned it was additive. When I originally said that statement however I didn't read the post correctly, as it seems. Which leads me onto my next point:

No disc though? Absolutely no comparison. Roll the disc.

 

[Bloomfield]

At it's base each extra disc is a 1.93% increase in damage, with 0 +disc on gear you already do 675% extra damage. There's no reason to ever say that it's a 15% damage increase, because it's never close to that.

If the item has no disc, reroll +disc yeah. But if it already has +9 disc you can't just say reroll disc like Omaeka (and your rule of thumb) says, as the extra damage isn't always worth it (and is often significantly worse) because of how little disc adds per point.

 

[Drollic]

Alright, so you prefer what you like over the most DPS output?

Most of my recommendations were for maximising your potential so take or leave them as you will then.

I've half taken the advice

New rucksack tonight with +CA 14% but lost RCR at 8% and instead got HR 1.5 per sec. Changed the neck for 695 dex, 79% cd, 10% cc and socket with BotP already at rank 20+ - noticeable difference in damage. Done about 10 rolls on shoulders and not once got + sentry yet

 

[Tephnos]

I've half taken the advice

New rucksack tonight with +CA 14% but lost RCR at 8% and instead got HR 1.5 per sec. Changed the neck for 695 dex, 79% cd, 10% cc and socket with BotP already at rank 20+ - noticeable difference in damage. Done about 10 rolls on shoulders and not once got + sentry yet

I'd make up for the loss of RCR on the rucksack by rolling it on the shoulders - Sentry is imo the least important stat there.

 

[Omaeka]

I'm arguing that those two top quotes are wrong. 1 point of disc is around a 1.5% damage increase, which isn't even close to what you're saying it is. I'm not forgetting that it's additive, otherwise I'd be saying something like "The 1 point of discipline = 10% dmg increase is huge".

So your quote shows that you don't just reroll the disc on a quiver because other stats can be significantly better.



12 Disc is around a 17% damage increase, unequipping my DH's quiver means I lose 33% of my damage (so dex + attack speed + CC = 50% damage increase), the attack speed isn't as useful as the other stats, but obviously I haven't included 15% skill damage, there's no way that a quiver without main stats that has disc is close to a no disc well rolled quiver, never mind "infinitely worse".

On my weapon, I'd only need to increase the average damage roll by 80 to be better than rerolling 9 disc to 12 disc. If your weapon doesn't have %damage then rolling that over a minimum disc isn't even close.

You seem to know that the bonus is additive, so I have no idea why you say things like 1 disc = 15% damage increase. Omaeka seems to think that getting 3 disc means you go from 1.4billion damage to 2billion damage though, which is clearly wrong.

I go more off what people tell me. I've said for the longest time that 8% reduced resource cost on quiver is far superior to +15% skill damage. I know it's all additive, yet for god knows how long I've had the top DHs EU/NA saying that +15% skill damage is the best thing to roll. Now for people who know the way that RCR and the general modifiers in the game themselves work, know that 8% RCR is equal to or greater than 8% multiplicative damage increase, rather than a 15% additive damage increase...

Yet everybody seems to think it's worth taking 15% additive damage over 8% multiplicative damage on a quiver for example, so surely discipline is the absolute best thing you could roll on your gear? The majority would actually think so.

I've also for the longest time wandered why even DH's think its a good idea to take 15% additive damage over potentially 100,000 hitpoints on helmets, but the meta is what it is, and for as long as time played = leaderboard position, people aren't going to improve the meta.

But anyway, before this little tangent was created, to say to the original guy: If you're playing a DH and are serious about end game content, Unhallowed is extremely difficult to build, nobody is going to place in the top 50 DHs with 9 discipline on their bow, that's just a fact. However Natalya's set is very competitive at the moment, and may even beat multishot/bluebawlz the further into the season we go. It's definately worth collected every set (except Shadow set, that thing is just pure trash) as even Marauder's could end up being the strongest with F+R. If you go multishot though, enjoy trying to get a perfect quiver an ancient DeadMans with the right rolls are about as common as an ancient Kridershot.

 

[Tephnos]

Haha definitely not with the Marauders. Wudijo is trying to work out how far Nat's can push but he thinks it may clear GR 70, which will be by far the best set. Marauders can do 60 maybe with all perfect gear.

Also: 15% Skill > RCR.

Get both instead, why decide?

 

[Omaeka]

Need some suggestions on how to improve my DH apart from continuing to re-roll neck to 10%cc and re-rolling another set of bracers with 6%cd - http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Drollic-2233/hero/36178257

Swap bombardiers out for meticulous bolts, swap your rings for Focus and Restraint (your CoE is a 38.75% damage increase, even at 200% it would only be 50% and the wailing host is useless). Swap marauder set for unhallowed essence and use lightning rune on elemental arrow and fire a hated spender only to proc Restraint, elemental arrow - lightning ball this will far outdps what marauders could achieve, and unhallowed's 1215% damage increase beats marauders 500%. Your bolts will hit enemies 2-3 times this way for 600m+ each, if you keep sentry - polar station in your build, you can increase that to 3-4 times against enemies inside your polar stations as well as proccing bane of the trapped easily without maelstrom. You wouldn't need Iceblink this way either.

If you want to keep Marauders and your Kridershot, you're going to have to swap bombardiers for meticulous as the damage is too much to pass up. If you want to be a cluster shot build though, then you have to swap your Krider out for a crossbow. Bows are bad in general as they are resource inefficient, the only reason to use a Krider is for meticulous bolts & lightning ball.

If you do the smart thing and swap to focus and restraint/unhallowed essence/meticulous bolts, then you want attack speed on EVERYTHING except jewelry. You want:

UE Shoulders - Dex, Vit, Resist All, CDR,
UE Helmet - Dex, Elemental Arrow %, Crit, Socket - Diamond
UE Gloves - Dex, Crit, Crit Damage, Attack Speed
UE Chest - Dex, Vit, Life %, Reduced Damage From Ranged Attacks, 12 Max Discipline
UE Legs - Dex, Vit, Life Regen
UE Boots - Dex, Vit, Resist All, Elemental Arrow %
Lacuni Prowlers - Lightning Damage, Dex, Attack Speed, Crit, then roll Movement Speed into Vitality. Lacuni's are extremely rare and hard to have them naturally roll like that though, so a good set of Steady Strikers will work. On them you want Lightning, Dex, Attack speed and Crit.
Kridershot - roll 10% RCR to 7% attack speed and you're golden, your Kridershot is a monster.
Meticulous Bolts - Dex, Attack Speed, Crit Chance, CDR, Elemental Arrow %, 12 Max Discipline

Build - Elemental Arrow - Lightning Ball, Multishot - Fire at Will, Preparation - Invigoration, Vault - Tumble, Marked for Death - Grim Reaper, Animal Companion - Wolf Companion

Enjoy facerolling 55+!

I honestly think you should go the blue balls build as you have the hardest and most important component - the Kridershot. The only build that can stand up to UE bluebawlz is Natalya's, you're hurting yourself at the minute by using Marauders, at least until somebody figures out a completely new spec other than the one from last season.

Haha definitely not with the Marauders. Wudijo is trying to work out how far Nat's can push but he thinks it may clear GR 70, which will be by far the best set. Marauders can do 60 maybe with all perfect gear.

Also: 15% Skill > RCR.

Get both instead, why decide?

I don't think 15% additive damage beats 8% multiplicative damage tbh! Though you're right, you can roll both on a quiver at the expense of vit or attack speed, but honestly that's next to impossible, getting 10 crit and 12 discipline is hard enough.

Also 15% multishot equals 1 point of discipline, that's like 1.3% extra DPS as somebody showed in this thread. 8% RCR on a hatred spender build is 8+ % extra DPS

 

[Tephnos]

Big note on the UE lightning build though:

It's slow. Verrrryyyy slow. I don't use it too much because it's pretty boring. (Also unfinished if you stalk my profile. What I DO have I think is pretty damn good, though.) You're gonna want it for high grift groups when you have a tank collecting the mobs for you, otherwise the balls are simply going too slow. (And in solo GRs you're going to want to kill yourself, Nats is much more fun).

UE Fire (seasonal only atm) is a lot more fun as you can keep moving and just spam Multi. Hell, even M6 is more fun.

 

[Omaeka]

Big note on the UE lightning build though:

It's slow. Verrrryyyy slow. I don't use it too much because it's pretty boring. (Also unfinished if you stalk my profile. What I DO have I think is pretty damn good, though.) You're gonna want it for high grift groups when you have a tank collecting the mobs for you, otherwise the balls are simply going too slow. (And in solo GRs you're going to want to kill yourself, Nats is much more fun).

UE Fire (seasonal only atm) is a lot more fun as you can keep moving and just spam Multi. Hell, even M6 is more fun.

Yep it's boring but if you have a Kridershot like that, it's the strongest build you can get non-seasonal. Dude should get a season character on the go though!

 

[Tephnos]

Yep it's boring but if you have a Kridershot like that, it's the strongest build you can get non-seasonal. Dude should get a season character on the go though!

To hell with seasons. NS ftw.

I need a better hellfire, ballistics is pretty wasted on UE lightning...

 

[Drollic]

Swap bombardiers out for meticulous bolts, swap your rings for Focus and Restraint (your CoE is a 38.75% damage increase, even at 200% it would only be 50% and the wailing host is useless). Swap marauder set for unhallowed essence and use lightning rune on elemental arrow and fire a hated spender only to proc Restraint, elemental arrow - lightning ball this will far outdps what marauders could achieve, and unhallowed's 1215% damage increase beats marauders 500%. Your bolts will hit enemies 2-3 times this way for 600m+ each, if you keep sentry - polar station in your build, you can increase that to 3-4 times against enemies inside your polar stations as well as proccing bane of the trapped easily without maelstrom. You wouldn't need Iceblink this way either.

If you want to keep Marauders and your Kridershot, you're going to have to swap bombardiers for meticulous as the damage is too much to pass up. If you want to be a cluster shot build though, then you have to swap your Krider out for a crossbow. Bows are bad in general as they are resource inefficient, the only reason to use a Krider is for meticulous bolts & lightning ball.

If you do the smart thing and swap to focus and restraint/unhallowed essence/meticulous bolts, then you want attack speed on EVERYTHING except jewelry. You want:

UE Shoulders - Dex, Vit, Resist All, CDR,
UE Helmet - Dex, Elemental Arrow %, Crit, Socket - Diamond
UE Gloves - Dex, Crit, Crit Damage, Attack Speed
UE Chest - Dex, Vit, Life %, Reduced Damage From Ranged Attacks, 12 Max Discipline
UE Legs - Dex, Vit, Life Regen
UE Boots - Dex, Vit, Resist All, Elemental Arrow %
Lacuni Prowlers - Lightning Damage, Dex, Attack Speed, Crit, then roll Movement Speed into Vitality. Lacuni's are extremely rare and hard to have them naturally roll like that though, so a good set of Steady Strikers will work. On them you want Lightning, Dex, Attack speed and Crit.
Kridershot - roll 10% RCR to 7% attack speed and you're golden, your Kridershot is a monster.
Meticulous Bolts - Dex, Attack Speed, Crit Chance, CDR, Elemental Arrow %, 12 Max Discipline

Build - Elemental Arrow - Lightning Ball, Multishot - Fire at Will, Preparation - Invigoration, Vault - Tumble, Marked for Death - Grim Reaper, Animal Companion - Wolf Companion

Enjoy facerolling 55+!

I honestly think you should go the blue balls build as you have the hardest and most important component - the Kridershot. The only build that can stand up to UE bluebawlz is Natalya's, you're hurting yourself at the minute by using Marauders, at least until somebody figures out a completely new spec other than the one from last season.



I don't think 15% additive damage beats 8% multiplicative damage tbh! Though you're right, you can roll both on a quiver at the expense of vit or attack speed, but honestly that's next to impossible, getting 10 crit and 12 discipline is hard enough.

Also 15% multishot equals 1 point of discipline, that's like 1.3% extra DPS as somebody showed in this thread. 8% RCR on a hatred spender build is 8+ % extra DPS

Thanks for that. I already have 5 pieces of the UE set but they aren't great rolls. I'll have to check my stash for the quiver - seem to remember turning one into souls :/

 

[Trig]

I'm still running with Goldwrap on my DH, got a few odd items that add to gold find as well as a set of bracers that add XP from gold find as well, stopped running with Boon for now and have toxin, pain enhancer and wreath lightning thing..

 

[Tephnos]

I'm still running with Goldwrap on my DH, got a few odd items that add to gold find as well as a set of bracers that add XP from gold find as well, stopped running with Boon for now and have toxin, pain enhancer and wreath lightning thing..

Why not Trapped/Zei? Toxin/PE are pretty useless for a DH. Although I suppose the latter works for now on a Physical build if you're just trying to upgrade the former gems.

 

[kmax86]

Finally manage to get full set wrath wastes and the jump on dps was massive lol.
Time to level up gems and get some IK pieces.

Also, what element are the spawned dust devils ? Is it affected by the skill rune or weapon element?

 

[Sayso]

Playing Nats at the moment and enjoying it a lot have gone cold (only messing around doing rifts) and im enjoying the strafe/rain playstyle, need a slayer though so i can drop in my focus/restraint from my monk but already critting for 1.5B...havent seen any UE set yet but will give that a try when i do, have got a couple of ancient one handers to partner with my slayer when i get it might go baleful and go fire.