This is why people are losing respect for the police...

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‘It was utterly surreal’: police accused of farcical error after 14 arrested at seminar on day of coronation​


...On the subject of a third raid that morning in Haggerston, east London, about five miles away from the coronation at Westminster Abbey, where shortly before 10.30am 14 people were arrested “on suspicion of conspiracy to cause a public nuisance”, there has been no such candour from Scotland Yard.

...The group, almost entirely female or non-binary, aged between their mid-20s and late 60s and largely new to activism, let alone its more extreme manifestations, were arrested on suspicion of being a Just Stop Oil cell intent on disrupting the crowning of Charles III.

In reality, they had gathered in a small nondescript room in a rented work space in east London for a seven-hour seminar about the theory, history and practice of non-violent protest after expressing an interest in the social activist group Animal Rising, largely via its website.

...About 25 officers swarmed around the seated group, with all the drama of a terrorist swoop. “They were all talking at once, saying you are under arrest, so I couldn’t hear why,” Hillwood said. “I said: ‘What are you talking about?’ Because they were saying that we were Just Stop Oil and that we were going to disrupt the coronation. And I was just like: ‘Absolutely not. I mean, we’re miles away. And we’re going to be here all day. We’ve got no intention of leaving.’” By this time, the king’s procession was already arriving at Westminster Abbey.

...The group were let out late in the evening on bail pending further investigation. Those arrested have since tried to piece together what may have happened. They learned that Just Stop Oil had previously used the building for meetings, along with many other organisations.

The police had mentioned some placards lying around in part of the building, and some paint unconnected to the training. The truth, said Caitlin, was that it was a horrible bungle. Animal Rising is planning a civil case for wrongful arrest and imprisonment. “I want the police to drop it,” said Caitlin. “I want my phone and my watch back and I want this wiped from the police database.”... Article
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If a "Just Stop Oil" cell was planning to disrupt the Coronation would they really have outed themselves by having a sign-posted meeting about it in a public place a few miles away on the morning of the event?

Was that the paint that we were told JSO was going to throw over the King's golden carriage during the procession?
 
The 95 year old Australian woman, who uses a walking frame to move around, tazered by the police is now on end of life care with a bleed on the brain and a fractured skull.

What sort of an idiot decides it's a good idea to taze a woman that old and immobile with 50,000 volts rather than control restrain her!?
 
Known Amazon parcel thief that frequently tries his luck on our road. Endless reports to the police including pictures and videos - obviously stretched/low priority.

At the weekend, he grabbed a purse from a pram as one of our residents was momentarily distracted. Money says it's to feed an addiction. At what escalation point/horrible consequence needs to happen before they do something about it?
 
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doodah said:
Known Amazon parcel thief that frequently tries his luck on our road. Endless reports to the police including pictures and videos - obviously stretched/low priority.

At the weekend, he grabbed a purse from a pram as one of our residents was momentarily distracted. Money says it's to feed an addiction. At what escalation point/horrible consequence needs to happen before they do something about it?
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I watch a lot of the podcasts with former prison officers on. Most say that the habitual offenders that commit most crime need mental health help, as most come from abusive homes when young.

I'm sure if new idea's were allowed to operate we'd have a more efficient system from arrest to prison and/or treatment. Ultimately we need to find the best to stop crimes being committed.
 
BowdonUK said:
I watch a lot of the podcasts with former prison officers on. Most say that the habitual offenders that commit most crime need mental health help, as most come from abusive homes when young.
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Councils in the UK used to have early intervention programmes, working with problem families to get them help and stop them going down this path before it was too late but, thanks to Cameron and Clegg, almost all of this work was shut down.

What a great way to save money.
 
StriderX said:
Lingo explanation?
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Section 136 of the Mental Health Act allows a constable to detain a person (in a place other than a dwelling) they believe is suffering from a mental disorder and to be in immediate need of care or control and convey them to a place of safety - in this case, A&E. When they're at the place of safety there's a grey bit when they're handing over to medical staff which often means Police Officers need to stay there until the handover is complete or to protect NHS staff and the individual depending on risk. This is a good guide as to what that grey area looks like.

Level 2 refers to public order officers who may or may not be kitted up in their pads and shields etc but have received public order level 2 training. They are trained with team tactics for dealing with violent people and indeed riots. 1+6 refers to 1 Sgt and 6 constables which constitutes a public order serial (or team). There are other public order structures, but I'll avoid going into that. The fact they've been deployed means there's someone there who is very high risk, is being actively violent, or potentially armed with a knife or edged weapon. L2 officers are often more effective at dealing with knives than armed officers.
 
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Last weekend, A&E had more police in there than I've seen in a long time. One particularly unpleasant yob had four of them standing guard around his trolley, and there were others dotted around the dept. with just two.
 
Mr Jack said:
Councils in the UK used to have early intervention programmes, working with problem families to get them help and stop them going down this path before it was too late but, thanks to Cameron and Clegg, almost all of this work was shut down.

What a great way to save money.
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Sterilisation is cheap.
 
BowdonUK said:
I watch a lot of the podcasts with former prison officers on. Most say that the habitual offenders that commit most crime need mental health help, as most come from abusive homes when young.

I'm sure if new idea's were allowed to operate we'd have a more efficient system from arrest to prison and/or treatment. Ultimately we need to find the best to stop crimes being committed.
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I remember years ago reading a Magistrates blog where he mentioned on more than one occasion he'd come across someone with mental health issues who knew they needed help, and knew they'd not get it in a timely manner unless they got locked up (at which point the police and prison service have a specific duty of care), so they very deliberately broke the law just enough so they'd get jailed and thus the care they needed. IIRC the person knew if they didn't get it they'd get worse and likely do something much more serious (as they'd had it happen before), so decided to do what they could to prevent that happening once they'd failed to get help whilst "free".
 
Werewolf said:
I remember years ago reading a Magistrates blog where he mentioned on more than one occasion he'd come across someone with mental health issues who knew they needed help, and knew they'd not get it in a timely manner unless they got locked up (at which point the police and prison service have a specific duty of care), so they very deliberately broke the law just enough so they'd get jailed and thus the care they needed. IIRC the person knew if they didn't get it they'd get worse and likely do something much more serious (as they'd had it happen before), so decided to do what they could to prevent that happening once they'd failed to get help whilst "free".
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This is just indicative of our prisoners being treat better than victims though. They can get help. Those on the outside that need it can't.
Why are we treating prisoners better than the general public?
 
Dis86 said:
This is just indicative of our prisoners being treat better than victims though. They can get help. Those on the outside that need it can't.
Why are we treating prisoners better than the general public?
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It's not that we're treating the prisoners better.
It's that there is far more oversight of someone once they are in custody as there is, quite rightly, a specific legal responsibility to ensure that those who we have deprived of liberty do not come to undue harm, and legal repercussions that follow if that duty of care is failed, and it's much easier to pin the blame on individuals/a specific organisation as typically when you're in prison there is no argument over if it was your GP, social services etc who failed you.
Basically when we lock someone up, we as a society take responsibility for every aspect of their care as they no longer have the ability to choose for themselves (a large part of the punishment of being locked away is specifically you no longer have any real control over your life/circumstances for the duration of the sentence).

What should happen is that there should be funding and oversight for those who are free and need help, but that is funded from a different budget and is much harder to do, and to be frank none of our governments have ever wanted to really fund that, with the last 13 years seeing that funding basically removed despite all sorts of promises.
Mental health has always been poorly funded, and with the effective cuts in all sorts of services, and the lack of GP's there is now no continuity of care for many (most) people, so if you've got a difficult issue or something that needs a third party to monitor it that is no longer realistically possible.
 
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