This is why people are losing respect for the police...

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If the police had tried to stop the Colston intervention , could probably have been a riot too.

haven't seen any of the media publish social media communication prior to Ely riot.
 
Burnsy2023 said:
That's not what they said. Their statements and the CCTV don't contradict each other.
Initially:

And in the updated statement:

It's perfectly reasonable that the police van spotted teenagers on illegal motor vehicles and followed them long enough to give the control room descriptions and direction of travel etc and then either stopped or the bikes lost police by going down footpaths. There were also 4 minutes between the CCTV and the collision, that's plenty of time for the bikes to lose the police and get into an RTC.

It's both the driver and the vehicle. A fully trained advanced driver with tactical phase pursuit training can't box a vehicle in a van unless it's really exceptional circumstances. In my force, the can't even use tactics in most response vehicles, only advanced-level vehicles.
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One big issue in Ely is the alleys between streets. The naughties cause trouble in one street and, if the police turn up, flee down the alleys which are too narrow for the car to follow.

Quite a few alleys have been walled off, due to anti-social behaviour.

I know this as a mate lives in Ely, and the alley at the end of his street was a source of endless trouble until it was closed off.
 
It's a shame the Welsh police haven't invested in their psychic training like the The Met, they could have stopped the kids from getting on the ebike before they even thought about crashing and also stopped the rioters before they picked up the street to throw at them
 
Minusorange said:
It's a shame the Welsh police haven't invested in their psychic training like the The Met, they could have stopped the kids from getting on the ebike before they even thought about crashing and also stopped the rioters before they picked up the street to throw at them
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Yes, you can really see the benefits of pre-emptive action.
 
fez said:
There are some lovely places near there! Bike park wales for one! But yes. Some absolute **** holes near there. One of the places we stayed had about 15 takeaways, 3 rough pubs and a load of gambling places and not much else. Tells you everything you need to know about it.
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I have a certain amount of sympathy for these areas. Their whole industry disappeared with the coal mines, unlike many northern towns that were served by good transport links, these Welsh towns are in the end in the middle of nowhere and although road links have improved it still takes forever to get there due to the topography. I used to do a fair amount of work in that area in the late 80s/early 90s and so many houses were boarded up, shops boarded up, it was so depressing. I ride at a big bike off road rally at Sweet Lamb Motorsport every year and drive up from M4 Newport and so many of the towns still look depressed.
 
Colonel_Klinck said:
Clealry they were both little scrotes who while attempting to get away from the police crashed into a bus killing themselves. There are 2 people to blame for their deaths and they are both dead. No great loss to society and there are plenty more where they came from.
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Pretty much. Plenty of them round here; would be nice if the police would "follow" some of them occasionally :D
 
Colonel_Klinck said:
I have a certain amount of sympathy for these areas. Their whole industry disappeared with the coal mines, unlike many northern towns that were served by good transport links, these Welsh towns are in the end in the middle of nowhere and although road links have improved it still takes forever to get there due to the topography. I used to do a fair amount of work in that area in the late 80s/early 90s and so many houses were boarded up, shops boarded up, it was so depressing. I ride at a big bike off road rally at Sweet Lamb Motorsport every year and drive up from M4 Newport and so many of the towns still look depressed.
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The issue is that it happened in the 80s. Thats 40 odd years ago. You can't just expect the government and everyone else to parachute in new jobs. People need to leave or find employment in the local area. There are so many remote jobs now. Yes it sucks and there should have been more help for those people but there comes a point where you can't keep living in the past and carrying a chip on your shoulder for something that someone did to you decades earlier.
 
StriderX said:
Lingo explanation?
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S136= the power (s.136 of the mental health act 1983) police have to detain people in public (and take them to a 'place of safety') for acute mental health issues that may require them to be sectioned. Police have to stay with the person detained at the 'place of safety' until they are assessed which can take many hours with a potentially very violent person with mental health issues.

Level 2= police officers with more training and kit (often called 'NATO's so the hard helmet with the face guard, and fire retardent overalls) to deal with more serious public order scenario's (level 3 is the basic uniformed police level of training and equipment)

'6 and 1' six police constables and one sergeant - a full 'PSU' (police support unit)
of police officers (I.e the typical occupants of one police van like the TSG in the Metropolitan police area or the TAU in Greater Mancheter Police.

Sometimes you might see something like '1, 3 and 18'.

Which in that case would be one inspector, three sergeants and six police officers for each sergeant.

It's a form commonly used to communicate how many staff a particular unit has.

So an example might be a senior officer commanding a public order event asking how many officers are available from a particular division or until for deployment and be told "1, 3 and 16".
 
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Burnsy2023 said:
I'm a little surprised I'm having to explain this in a world of so much misinformation.
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It's not unreasonable to think in this situation. Have you looked at where the cctv footage was taken and the time? Then look at the location the fatal crash happened and the time?

It is physically possible the police vehicle could have followed them to that location. It is also possible the police vehicle could have branched off a couple of junctions before too.

I understand that there is probably an anti police mentality going around. I think the second statement could have been better explained after talking to the police unit in the vehicle.

I think the situation was more inflamed by Alun Michael's statement coming out with a dismissive attitude.

Edit: As I was typing my post there as been a press conference were they read out the location of the police vehicle through out the incident.
 
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BowdonUK said:
The people on the ground said the police were chasing/following them and caused the crash.

If the police version is right that no police were on the scene at the time of the crash then why did people riot?
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For that particular part of Cardiff it wouldn't have taken much to start it tbh, its a really rough area and there is already an anti-police mentality there.
 
Caracus2k said:
'6 and 1' six police constables and one sergeant - a full 'PSU' (police support unit)
of police officers (I.e the typical occupants of one police van like the TSG in the Metropolitan police area or the TAU in Greater Mancheter Police.
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Just to be clear, 1 and 6 is a serial. 3 serials plus a PSU commander is a PSU although drivers and medics are usually included.
I've seen some officers refer to single serials as a PSU which isn't correct.
BowdonUK said:
It's not unreasonable to think in this situation. Have you looked at where the cctv footage was taken and the time? Then look at the location the fatal crash happened and the time?

It is physically possible the police vehicle could have followed them to that location. It is also possible the police vehicle could have branched off a couple of junctions before too.

I understand that there is probably an anti police mentality going around. I think the second statement could have been better explained after talking to the police unit in the vehicle.

I think the situation was more inflamed by Alun Michael's statement coming out with a dismissive attitude.

Edit: As I was typing my post there as been a press conference were they read out the location of the police vehicle through out the incident.
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The other thing to mention is that this is a death after police contact, which means that Post Incident Procedures (PIP) should be in effect including a mandatory referral to the IOPC who may decide to lead the investigation. This is a procedure where IOPC and PSD get initial accounts making sure officers are separated etc. There's a strict process for making sure that the investigation is conducted seriously and fairly. Other accounts can also be taken a few days later when other evidence is collected, which may include legal counsel. The police can't say too much too early on as if wrongdoing by any officers is identified, this could prejudice that investigation and subsequent misconduct processes.
 
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Haggisman said:
Pretty much. Plenty of them round here; would be nice if the police would "follow" some of them occasionally :D
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Starting to feel the same way to be honest. My city is full of chavs cruising about the pavements and roads on stolen unrestricted e-bikes and escooters at 30-60 mph wearing balaclavas.

Police here don’t seem interested in actually doing anything about it.
 
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silvagti said:
Starting to feel the same way to be honest. My city is full of chavs cruising about the pavements and roads on stolen e-bikes and escooters at 30-60 mph wearing balaclavas.

Police here don’t seem interested in actually doing anything about it.
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Well if it doesn't apply to the rich it ought not apply to anyone.
 
So from what I've seen two teenagers are riding about at speed on a (likely stolen and not road legal) electric motorbike with zero regards for their safety and that of other vehicles and pedestrians around them.

Yet somehow the media is portraying this as being the fault of the police for pursuing and trying to apprehend criminals who were clearly breaking the law by driving a vehicle dangerously whilst clearly posing a serious risk to the public?

Does that pretty much sum up the situation?
 
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silvagti said:
Starting to feel the same way to be honest. My city is full of chavs cruising about the pavements and roads on stolen unrestricted e-bikes and escooters at 30-60 mph wearing balaclavas.

Police here don’t seem interested in actually doing anything about it.
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Today when I went to collect my daughter from school, 5 vehicles parked on white zigzags of a pelican crossing. TWO marked police vehicles drove past and did absolutely nothing.
Seems like police work these days is too hard for police.
 
Burnsy2023 said:
Just to be clear, 1 and 6 is a serial. 3 serials plus a PSU commander is a PSU although drivers and medics are usually included.
I've seen some officers refer to single serials as a PSU which isn't correct.
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Yes you're correct, as you say I think its a faily common, if incorrect, saying to refer to one buses worth of police '1 and 6' as a PSU when it's actually only a third and correctly called a 'serial'. Been over 15 years since I was in the cops in a unformed serial (and then only lvl3 on aid) now so some bad naming habits still stick.
 
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