This is why people are losing respect for the police...

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His own fault, ZERO sympathy. He lack of respect for the police cause his own death. He should have stopped, let himself be questioned and IF he did nothing be allowed to go on his merry e-bike way, otherwise HE was upto no good and take the consequences.

Its very simple, the POLICE are not to blame at all.
 
His own fault, ZERO sympathy. He lack of respect for the police cause his own death. He should have stopped, let himself be questioned and IF he did nothing be allowed to go on his merry e-bike way, otherwise HE was upto no good and take the consequences.

Its very simple, the POLICE are not to blame at all.
Not that this particular demographic cares to trust the police anyway but these recent years haven't been kind to the institution's reputation even among good-natured people which frankly has a lot of deleterious effects on the general behaviour of people. If this were even just a decade ago I doubt it would matter, but with the proliferation of group-centric social media nowadays the risk that this event echos in those rooms as a conspiracy against them as individuals is sadly I think a very real prospect.

I think a heavier hand that is acknowledged as the norm might help but if they think they're going to get disappeared/beaten via their echo chambers then it could also just reinforce unwillingness to cooperate, but maybe that's just a risk that has to be accepted before the public lose complete confidence.
 
His own fault, ZERO sympathy. He lack of respect for the police cause his own death. He should have stopped, let himself be questioned and IF he did nothing be allowed to go on his merry e-bike way, otherwise HE was upto no good and take the consequences.

Its very simple, the POLICE are not to blame at all.

Well, we don't actually know if they're to blame yet do we ?

After the totally independent investigation we'll find out.
 
Yes we do, the police decided to stop him for whatever reason and the reason is irrelevant, he then decided he did not want to stop and the police quite rightly gave chase. The poor kid was not skilled enough to ride a bike and crashed.

End of investigation, public money saved.
 
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It's a 15 year old kid, and any family, even nice middle class ones can have a bad apple in them.

one, at the time, 17 year old drug dealing pre mediated murderer and one 15 year old riding on an illegal e bike, who had shortly before made of from police before slamming into ambulance.....

This is a large part of the problem with discussions like this.... most people don't have the experience of dealing with, often rather nasty, criminals day in and day out and so they bring their own naive views to the discussion.


There was no light or electricity in Leigh Smith's ground floor flat.

This grim existence had become a reality for the 48-year-old in his final days.

A likeable and well loved dad, his life was sadly blighted by drug addiction.

He was easy prey for a 17-year-old teenage gangster, who netted staggering amounts of money, profiting from human misery.

Just as cuckoos take over the nests of other birds, drug dealers do the same to vulnerable people who are desperate.

Rather than take the risk of using their own homes, flats such as Leigh's provided a safe haven for drugs to be packaged and prepared ready for the streets.

Cuckooing, this evil, terrifying trend, allowed Jacob Cookson to rake in £7,000 a week, peddling crack cocaine and heroin on the streets of Salford.

Leigh Smith was just one part of Cookson's drugs empire.

But he paid the ultimate price after Cookson decided that a challenge to his gangster image could not go unpunished.

He would openly carry knives including terrifying Rambo style blades, to reinforce threats and intimidate people.

Even the death of a 'close friend', another victim of knife crime, did not put off Cookson from carrying blades.

Police discovered a 'Rambo' knife when they arrested Cookson, and a hunting knife in his bedroom.

He was even accused of threatening a co-defendant, who was later acquitted of murder, with an improvised blade during his trial.

Described as being a paintbrush handle which had been sharpened, he allegedly had it in a holding cell before being brought to court.

"Check this out", Cookson allegedly told the teen, before lifting up his top and showing him the weapon, which was discovered in a Lynx shower gel bottle at Wetherby young offender institution.

It was a final act of defiance as he faced the prospect of a life sentence. He must serve at least 19 years before he can be freed.

"I think it's a sad indictment of society today, particularly young people who routinely carry knives," DCI Ben Cottam of GMP said after the case.

"It's a shocking example of how things can go tragically wrong when you carry a knife.

"With Jacob it was more than that, he was using it as part and parcel of his criminal enterprise, and carried it quite openly on occasion, and used it to enforce the intimidation tactics and to help with the taking advantage of vulnerable people."

It was an attack on Cookson which was the catalyst for this brutal killing.

He ended up in hospital, covered in blood, after being hit over the head with a radio in Leigh's flat, by a man he'd just sold some crack cocaine.

Cookson laid the blame at Leigh's door, believing he'd been set up.

Five days later, Cookson, with the help of another member of his gang, 17-year-old Logan Eaton, went to exact revenge.

Tragically, Leigh's life had seemed to be taking a positive turn.

The last time he saw his mother Jackie Roycroft, she believed he'd been making good strides.

Leigh was stabbed seven times
 
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Unconfirmed reports are that the 15 year old was on a Sur-on electronic motor cycle costing £5,000+ new (and obviously not legal for a 15 year old to ride in a public area).


Wonder where the money came from for that or was it stolen?

The bike can be seen on its side in one of the images on the BBC article.

 
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The police's job is squarely to protect the elites.

You should go to a city like London, Birmingham or Manchester and see how much police time and resources are spend on the 'elite' areas.

In reality some of the worst parts of criminal activity affect the areas the offenders are from and it is thoose areas that would suffer the most from the reduction or withdrawl of police.

The 'Elites' can and do afford their own private security, reinforced homes and cars.


Bob and his stunning fiancée live in a £10million mansion with its own three-lane bowling alley and six double garages to house his £4million collection of 12 supercars.

In the corner of his home’s three-acre garden — protected by two security men and a pair of Dobermann guard dogs — is a caravan, to remind Bob where it all began.
 
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The bike can be seen on its side in one of the images on the BBC article.
bike pictures were in earlier linked sun article looks like a traditional pedal cycle e-bike , doesn't have the width of a larger framed sur-ron, with a much stronger triangle too, like the earlier Ely bike.

loss of respect for police has been trumped by loss of respect for politicians - epitomized by Boris's resignation statement this evening.
 
bike pictures were in earlier linked sun article looks like a traditional pedal cycle e-bike , doesn't have the width of a larger framed sur-ron, with a much stronger triangle too, like the earlier Ely bike.

loss of respect for police has been trumped by loss of respect for politicians - epitomized by Boris's resignation statement this evening.
You don't hit an ambulance with enough force to smash a wind screen as high up as seen on the picture with that much force on an electric assisted pedal cycle.....

That thing was not doing the sub 20mph speeds such devices top out at.

I expect you might need to eat some humble pie unless the Guardian and or the IOPC are misleading us....

Another passerby alleged that the boy was moving at 50mph through residential streets while being chased for 15 minutes by a police vehicle, before colliding with the ambulance

An IOPC spokesperson said an investigation into the collision was launched after receiving a mandatory referral after a police van followed the e-bike shortly prior to the crash.
He said that Cookson was treated by paramedics at the scene before being taken to hospital where he was pronounced dead at 2.35pm.
He said that at this stage, the IOPC understands that officers saw the black off-road Sur-Ron e-bike and followed it for a short period before the bike passed through bollards at the end of Lower Seedley Road, which the police vehicle could not pass through.

 
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You don't hit an ambulance with enough force to smash a wind screen as high up as seen on the picture with that much force on an electric assisted pedal cycle.....

That thing was not doing the sub 20mph speeds such devices top out at.

I expect you might need to eat some humble pie unless the Guardian and or the IOPC are misleading us...

15mph pedal assisted. Even without a helmet colliding with a stationary ambulance could lead to broken bones no doubt but unlikely to be fatal at those sort of speeds.
 
That thing was not doing the sub 20mph speeds such devices top out at.

As Hagar implied perhaps boosted to more than 15mph too .
but bikes got what look like 32mm mtb tyres, and its frame (as pictured now) doesn't look wide enough to accomodate an e-motorbike gubbins

15-year-old-boy-riding-823605266-1.jpg
 
bike pictures were in earlier linked sun article looks like a traditional pedal cycle e-bike , doesn't have the width of a larger framed sur-ron, with a much stronger triangle too, like the earlier Ely bike.

loss of respect for police has been trumped by loss of respect for politicians - epitomized by Boris's resignation statement this evening.
Its not pedal assist, you can clearly see the motocross style pegs instead of pedals on a crank. Its likely not one of the bigger versions that look almost like a MX bike as it's only fitted with Rockshox Boxxer forks. However, it definitely looks to be a full electric offroad bike. I do question weather its a "Sur Ron" I wonder if they have just given it that name like people call vacuum cleaners "hoovers".
 
Apparently it was a surron or simmilar electric moto' X motorcycle.
Totally illegal to ride on the road and will do a lot more than 20mph.

They also retail for about five grand. It doesn't take too much imagination to figure out how he afforded that unless it was stolen.
 
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His own fault, ZERO sympathy. He lack of respect for the police cause his own death. He should have stopped, let himself be questioned and IF he did nothing be allowed to go on his merry e-bike way, otherwise HE was upto no good and take the consequences.

Its very simple, the POLICE are not to blame at all.
the papers keep reporting Electric Motorbikes as E-bikes so people get the impression they are just electric assisted pedal bikes which are legal on the streets(as long as they are restricted to 15.5mph), probably because most media have a "we have cyclists mentality"
Electric motor bikes are for private land only and should just be outright banned.
The other week I went past The city courts here and there were a bunch of youths on illegal electric motorbikes just casually hanging out opposite it like they didn't have a care in the world.


why are the police turning a blind eye? and why are the parents allowing their children to have whats essentially an illegal bike?
It's no different to driving around on an off road dirt bike with no license, no registration , no mot, no helmet ....

PROSECUTE THE PARENTS
 
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the papers keep reporting Electric Motorbikes as E-bikes so people get the impression they are just electric assisted pedal bikes which are legal on the streets(as long as they are restricted to 15.5mph), probably because most media have a "we have cyclists mentality"

Yes this is why I am losing respect for the police.

:rolleyes:
 
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