Thorney Motorsport
- Thread starter Gaijin
- Start date
Caporegime
as a TV show its not bad.
If you know nothing of the bloke you wouldn't find a lot to dislike. Its only us that have some prior knowledge of his personality that are cringing and wincing.
If you know nothing of the bloke you wouldn't find a lot to dislike. Its only us that have some prior knowledge of his personality that are cringing and wincing.
It's awful, its like a motorsport company watched motors TV (a bad thing) and thought "I know, we can do that TV stuff!" and made an ever badder thing.
I particularly dislike the blonde woman presenter and the general public that the presenters talks to. I guess that is the target audience.
Soldato
Wow... Just wow.
I have to give it to the man.... Mr Phoney is one determined man. He is a grade a clown. Actually thats a little harsh of me. He treated me and my mate like royalty when we first visited his establishment lol.
The moment I sought assistance from them I was basically told to pay up or get out!
As for "expert" lol. The man is nothing more than a salesman...... Nothing more.... Nothing less.
The very thought of him still annoys me to this day lol!
I have to give it to the man.... Mr Phoney is one determined man. He is a grade a clown. Actually thats a little harsh of me. He treated me and my mate like royalty when we first visited his establishment lol.
The moment I sought assistance from them I was basically told to pay up or get out!
As for "expert" lol. The man is nothing more than a salesman...... Nothing more.... Nothing less.
The very thought of him still annoys me to this day lol!
Hi all, thanks for forum access. As a result of the BMW episode I no longer really frequent forums because generally there is no real chance of things ever being fair, that episode is a graphic example of how one side of the story does immeasurable damage as people when they read a comment assume it is 100%, most of the time on forums this isnt the case sadly. I was happy to just let it all move on but the relative size and importance of this forum is such that if it does come up we get punished all over again and I dont think that really is fair, so I thought I'd post some facts and you can draw your own conclusions.
First of all can I deal with the BMW that was the heart of it. The bottom line was that neither side handled the situation very well, for our part both the tech and the tech supervising the job no longer work for me and certainly we failed the owner in some areas of detail for which I apologised for and rectified. At the same time the owner accepts that not only did he not handle the situation well but he also accepted that a great deal of his comments were factually innacurate. Yes, we did get legal advise and yes I was prepared to go to court over it but we both concluded that perhaps it was better to find a better way to resolve it. As a result the owner agreed to post that retraction and an apology for the comments he made, and yes my lawyer did draft that post. I have a business to protect just like many others and if I have to use the courts to protect it I will.
As part of the same agreement we agreed to buy the car back from him, essentially a refund for the work. There was no obligation for me to do this but firstly I considered there was little point having a car done by us out in the market with the owner unhappy with the work, with his money back he could at least just move on. Secondly I wanted to prove that the work we did was good and could be proven as such. As a result I bought the car back, we then entered it into a CSL Cup race where it finished all three races (and the next two race weekends) without issue. In other words I wanted to demonstrate that what we did worked. We then sold the car to another person who has continued to race (and win) multiple races in it.
For me at this time the issue was over, I've since had a few conversations with the owner (albeit on line) and his attitude is such hat he is happy with the outcome and whilst its unlikely we are ever going to be best buddies we will meet n greet at tracks that we frequent.
So, now it come up again and a few people see it as a chance to have a go at us. I guess there is naff all I can do about that but I figured as life is about freedom of speach and all that perhaps the members here would be interested to know some background of the two members here most vociferous in their comments?
Firstly we have Muncher. Now I know Muncher from the VX220 days, Muncher has a nice little business in making add on bits for VX220's and dealing in reapris of Cat d's. At the time I owned (and paid for) the VX220 forum and we had some cross words where I felt he abused the forum by trading on it without making any effort to contribute to the costs (the forum had no adverts, pop ups etc and no income stream) so we never really got on. Some time later (I'd passed the forum on) Muncher asked if we could sell some of the parts he had developed, I refused, firstly as I couldnt get one set to fit a car and secondly I was concerned over the development and as a supplier I would potentially be exposing myself to grief if an item failed. I've also been quite vocal on the issue of buying a crash repaired VX220 as they are hard to repair well and very easy to conceal, this obviously doesnt fit well with Munchers business. I wont apologise for that but at the same time I dont trawl round forums warning people not to deal with him, frankly its none of my business. However, we are the official VX220 expert for the UK, ie Vauxhall themselves refer cars to us when dealers struggle to fix them so I guess we do know a least a little bit about them. If you have a VX by all means believe what you want about or what Muncher wants to pedal but take into account a vested interest and the fact that we currenlty have 7 VX220's here, all owned by happy customers and after 12 years in operation we couldnt survive any business environment if we were crap.
Right, onto Dair, this is eye opening. We first met Dair via a phonecall, he rings to say his car (Corsa VXR) was smoking badly and he wanted the AA to drop it off. No problem of course so the AA rolls up with the Corsa and we pop the hood, straight away you could see the head/head gasket was gone, there was so little water in it that we didnt try and start it so tool the coil pack off and had a look down the plugs, put some water in it, fired it up and the plugs filled with water. AA man was here while we did it (he watched us for the most part) and he said 'oh yeah, the owner said he'd been driving it for miles with the engine warning light on' Hmmm.
My service advisor rings Dair and says "looks pretty bad, no water at all in the engine but we need to do a leakdown/compression test and to see how bad it is. However, we understand that you drove the car for some time with the red warning light on so its possible that Vauxhall wont cover this under their warranty as they will consider it abuse, if thats the case then we will have to charge for our time as Vauxhall wont pay us" Dairs response was "ok, I will come and collect the car". And thats how we left it.
Fast forward a few weeks and I get a call from Vauxhall, Corsa with blown head, what did we think. I re-told the story so Vauxhall said, abuse we will decline it (it was put through another dealer at this time). Dair (who works for a firm of solicitors) fires off a series of solicitors letters threatening to take Vauxhall and TMS to court. So, the wheels of Vauxhall come into play and they investigate further (this includes getting the AA notes from the pick up and even interviewing the AA driver). Turns out what happened was Dair was driving along the M1 and the red light comes on, you know the one, the big red light that says "STOP THE ENGINE, risk of severe damage, contact your dealer" or words to that effect. Dair, in his wisdom decides to carry on for a further 15 miles to a service station. Now at this point you think Dair might stop and pop the bonnet/call the AA? Nope. What Dair does is go to the petrol station, fill up with fuel then carry on. He of course gets 20 feet from the forecourt after filling up and blasts thick white smoke out the back of the car and 'then' decides something must be up.
At this point Vauxhall and us have a meeting, we all agreed abuse but Dair was having none of it, so Vauxhall paid for the engine to be inspected and sure enough there was no water in it, cracked head and declined the warranty. However, they couldnt determine what caused the head to crack, no water = heat = cracked head or was it cracked head = water loss, there was no way of knowing so Vauxhall bit the bullet and paid for the new engine. At this time Dairs solicitor asked that TMS pay for all his expenses (taxi fares, train tickets etc) for the period we was without the car, these totalled over £4k. We refused, we asked for evidence of these expenses and amazingly enough there was none, not one single receipt. We refunded the small charge for the initial inspection and put it down to experience.
Since then Dair make it a mission to **** us off where he can. Again, naff all I can do about that but perhaps knowing how Dair likes to treat his cars (and is clearly unable to see or ignore a warning light) might at least give you all some background when you consider the story.
Now as I understand it this forum is populated by some clever people and I have no intention of using your site as some kind of argument ground so I'm not going to get dragged into a protracted argument with Dair, Muncher or anyone else. In my mind if we as a company have done something wrong then we are responsible to fix it, if this is the case then the customer comes to us and we resolve it. When a customer decides that a forum is the best place to vent their rage it ceases to be a complaint or a wish to get resolution it becomes a channel for rage and in most cases facts tend to go out of the window. Sorry for the long post, sorry to abuse your site for such a purpose but I figured you're better off knowing the facts and then make your own minds up.
John
First of all can I deal with the BMW that was the heart of it. The bottom line was that neither side handled the situation very well, for our part both the tech and the tech supervising the job no longer work for me and certainly we failed the owner in some areas of detail for which I apologised for and rectified. At the same time the owner accepts that not only did he not handle the situation well but he also accepted that a great deal of his comments were factually innacurate. Yes, we did get legal advise and yes I was prepared to go to court over it but we both concluded that perhaps it was better to find a better way to resolve it. As a result the owner agreed to post that retraction and an apology for the comments he made, and yes my lawyer did draft that post. I have a business to protect just like many others and if I have to use the courts to protect it I will.
As part of the same agreement we agreed to buy the car back from him, essentially a refund for the work. There was no obligation for me to do this but firstly I considered there was little point having a car done by us out in the market with the owner unhappy with the work, with his money back he could at least just move on. Secondly I wanted to prove that the work we did was good and could be proven as such. As a result I bought the car back, we then entered it into a CSL Cup race where it finished all three races (and the next two race weekends) without issue. In other words I wanted to demonstrate that what we did worked. We then sold the car to another person who has continued to race (and win) multiple races in it.
For me at this time the issue was over, I've since had a few conversations with the owner (albeit on line) and his attitude is such hat he is happy with the outcome and whilst its unlikely we are ever going to be best buddies we will meet n greet at tracks that we frequent.
So, now it come up again and a few people see it as a chance to have a go at us. I guess there is naff all I can do about that but I figured as life is about freedom of speach and all that perhaps the members here would be interested to know some background of the two members here most vociferous in their comments?
Firstly we have Muncher. Now I know Muncher from the VX220 days, Muncher has a nice little business in making add on bits for VX220's and dealing in reapris of Cat d's. At the time I owned (and paid for) the VX220 forum and we had some cross words where I felt he abused the forum by trading on it without making any effort to contribute to the costs (the forum had no adverts, pop ups etc and no income stream) so we never really got on. Some time later (I'd passed the forum on) Muncher asked if we could sell some of the parts he had developed, I refused, firstly as I couldnt get one set to fit a car and secondly I was concerned over the development and as a supplier I would potentially be exposing myself to grief if an item failed. I've also been quite vocal on the issue of buying a crash repaired VX220 as they are hard to repair well and very easy to conceal, this obviously doesnt fit well with Munchers business. I wont apologise for that but at the same time I dont trawl round forums warning people not to deal with him, frankly its none of my business. However, we are the official VX220 expert for the UK, ie Vauxhall themselves refer cars to us when dealers struggle to fix them so I guess we do know a least a little bit about them. If you have a VX by all means believe what you want about or what Muncher wants to pedal but take into account a vested interest and the fact that we currenlty have 7 VX220's here, all owned by happy customers and after 12 years in operation we couldnt survive any business environment if we were crap.
Right, onto Dair, this is eye opening. We first met Dair via a phonecall, he rings to say his car (Corsa VXR) was smoking badly and he wanted the AA to drop it off. No problem of course so the AA rolls up with the Corsa and we pop the hood, straight away you could see the head/head gasket was gone, there was so little water in it that we didnt try and start it so tool the coil pack off and had a look down the plugs, put some water in it, fired it up and the plugs filled with water. AA man was here while we did it (he watched us for the most part) and he said 'oh yeah, the owner said he'd been driving it for miles with the engine warning light on' Hmmm.
My service advisor rings Dair and says "looks pretty bad, no water at all in the engine but we need to do a leakdown/compression test and to see how bad it is. However, we understand that you drove the car for some time with the red warning light on so its possible that Vauxhall wont cover this under their warranty as they will consider it abuse, if thats the case then we will have to charge for our time as Vauxhall wont pay us" Dairs response was "ok, I will come and collect the car". And thats how we left it.
Fast forward a few weeks and I get a call from Vauxhall, Corsa with blown head, what did we think. I re-told the story so Vauxhall said, abuse we will decline it (it was put through another dealer at this time). Dair (who works for a firm of solicitors) fires off a series of solicitors letters threatening to take Vauxhall and TMS to court. So, the wheels of Vauxhall come into play and they investigate further (this includes getting the AA notes from the pick up and even interviewing the AA driver). Turns out what happened was Dair was driving along the M1 and the red light comes on, you know the one, the big red light that says "STOP THE ENGINE, risk of severe damage, contact your dealer" or words to that effect. Dair, in his wisdom decides to carry on for a further 15 miles to a service station. Now at this point you think Dair might stop and pop the bonnet/call the AA? Nope. What Dair does is go to the petrol station, fill up with fuel then carry on. He of course gets 20 feet from the forecourt after filling up and blasts thick white smoke out the back of the car and 'then' decides something must be up.
At this point Vauxhall and us have a meeting, we all agreed abuse but Dair was having none of it, so Vauxhall paid for the engine to be inspected and sure enough there was no water in it, cracked head and declined the warranty. However, they couldnt determine what caused the head to crack, no water = heat = cracked head or was it cracked head = water loss, there was no way of knowing so Vauxhall bit the bullet and paid for the new engine. At this time Dairs solicitor asked that TMS pay for all his expenses (taxi fares, train tickets etc) for the period we was without the car, these totalled over £4k. We refused, we asked for evidence of these expenses and amazingly enough there was none, not one single receipt. We refunded the small charge for the initial inspection and put it down to experience.
Since then Dair make it a mission to **** us off where he can. Again, naff all I can do about that but perhaps knowing how Dair likes to treat his cars (and is clearly unable to see or ignore a warning light) might at least give you all some background when you consider the story.
Now as I understand it this forum is populated by some clever people and I have no intention of using your site as some kind of argument ground so I'm not going to get dragged into a protracted argument with Dair, Muncher or anyone else. In my mind if we as a company have done something wrong then we are responsible to fix it, if this is the case then the customer comes to us and we resolve it. When a customer decides that a forum is the best place to vent their rage it ceases to be a complaint or a wish to get resolution it becomes a channel for rage and in most cases facts tend to go out of the window. Sorry for the long post, sorry to abuse your site for such a purpose but I figured you're better off knowing the facts and then make your own minds up.
John
Caporegime
*Goes to make a brew*
Man of Honour
Puts some cushions on the settee and checks popcorn supply.
Man of Honour
I just read it all.
It was...beautiful ;_;
It was...beautiful ;_;
Soldato
How much you charging for popcorn simulatorman?
Caporegime
It's always nice to get both sides, however for me the damage has already been done, quite a few people have come out of the woodwork unhappy with TM, the way they worded things and what they did to try and shut people up smacked at being desperate and made the situation even worse, its at the point that if i needed a vauxhall specialist i wouldn't use them.
Soldato
Who's Dair?
You're right, I certainly handled it badly mainly as I was very upset about what was said, my reaction was based on "this isnt true, its not fair, stop people talking about" and what I should have reacted was "find the issue, sort it and then let the truth come out (as it always does)" I learnt that lesson. The whole eposide has probably cost us hundreds of thousands of pounds but since it happened I have withdrawn from all forums and let our work speak for us. We get things wrong of course but we deal with this directly.