Tower block fire - london

[Mr.E.]

The Council would like to thank all those who have made generous donations of accommodation, food, clothing and other items. We would ask you to please hold off for now as we have been inundated with useful items. When we need donations again we will update via our website and social media.

Up to 17 dead now

 

[MooMoo444]

Have they managed to reach the top yet?

 

[snips86x]

Have they managed to reach the top yet?

They said yesterday they manged to get to floor 20 and 22 but the edge apartments haven't been searched due to structural issues.

 

[gizmoy2k]

Up to 17 dead now

Given the number of people who seem to be looking for 3-4 others or families the final toll will likely be multiples of this and I expect the authorities already know it

 

[Irish_Tom]

With the cost of sprinklers, there was a guy on the radio saying it would cost on average £3,500 per flat to install.

So a 120-flat building could cost £420,000.

Extrapolated out to 2925 buildings (assuming they're all the same size) and you're looking at £1.2bn.

 

[cheesyboy]

With the cost of sprinklers, there was a guy on the radio saying it would cost on average £3,500 per flat to install.

So a 120-flat building could cost £420,000.

Extrapolated out to 2925 buildings (assuming they're all the same size) and you're looking at £1.2bn.

And the building management company just spent £12mil on coating it in flammable material (allegedly). Probably should have balanced that with a relatively small outlay on some sprinklers, really.

 

[Greebo]

I assume Britain First.

Correct.

 

[Django x2]

I don't think modern high rises have them...
IIRC they were often fitted as an afterthought on older low rises, they would have been utterly useless in this sort of instance where the fire was spreading from the outside of the building.
You're probably better off improving the fire resistance of the windows (which doesn't work if people can open them).

Really? All 4 corners of the building were compromised by the fire, externally, at the same time?

 

[Uther]

We can pay billions for Trident, billions for foreign aid, billions for any number of other things, but sprinklers in flats to save people from burning to death? Naah, too expensive.

 

[jeff83nz]

I suggest councils are given enough money by the incumbent government to ensure people can live in safe conditions. There is no alternative.

Would you priotise this, the NHS, pay rises for those who haven't received one for 5 years in the public sector?

How would you pay for it?

Also if it turns out it was the external cladding, then surely the more effective option is to ensure outside of the building is fully fire proof as this appears to be where it all went wrong.

 

[Diddums]

We can pay billions for Trident, billions for foreign aid, billions for any number of other things, but sprinklers in flats to save people from burning to death? Naah, too expensive.

Because they don't contain bank managers and politicians. A nuke can still mess you up regardless of your status in society, so you spend money on defending yourself against it. A fire in a block like this however will never affect the 1% so they couldn't give a toss.

 

[Greebo]

Well it was confirmed this morning the cladding used was to industry and regulations standard but it was plastic based and the same cladding which was listed as a major factory in both the previous French and Duba tower block fires.

So either the regulations aren't good enough if contractors can keep using this cladding or perhaps under CDM, with it been blamed in two previous fires, even if it is legal under the regulations, the contractor shouldn't have used it and will be liable.

 

[dowie]

You'd rather abseil from 10-20 floors up, though flames and smoke, then walk down smoke filled stairs in fireproof suits with an air supply? Anyway, this is all silly speculation, we might as well ask for unicorns to magic people out of the building.

yes... and I'd probably not have tanks and flame proof suits in my flat anyway... indeed this is silly, you'd hope that a building would have sprinkler systems etc..

 

[Hagar]

Well it was confirmed this morning the cladding used was to industry and regulations standard but it was plastic based and the same cladding which was listed as a major factory in both the previous French and Duba tower block fires.

So either the regulations aren't good enough if contractors can keep using this cladding or perhaps under CDM, with it been blamed in two previous fires, even if it is legal under the regulations, the contractor shouldn't have used it and will be liable.

The designer would / should have had this approved at planning stage. It may have been specified in the project by the local authority as a suitable material. It will meet building regulations for use but possibly not in these conditions

It definitely should have had a risk assessment done as to its intended use as external cladding in a high rise building designed in the 1970's.

The contractor is only liable if it was his proposal not the commissioning authority (Local Authority).

 

[Chris Wilson]

What is the deal with fire extinguishers in places like this? Not saying they would have made a difference being there if they weren't already.

Only reason being is that when my friends were at uni they were in a 5 bedroom house and every bedroom was a private room with it's own rent. However this meant that they had their own fire extinguishers, and one also found in the kitchen, so 6 in total for the house. Which seemed overkill.

They were inspected regularly also.

House of multiple occupancy, they have far more stringent regulations than say 6 people sharing the whole house.

 

[dowie]

The designer would / should have had this approved at planning stage. It may have been specified in the project by the local authority as a suitable material. It will meet building regulations for use but possibly not in these conditions

It definitely should have had a risk assessment done as to its intended use as external cladding in a high rise building designed in the 1970's.

The contractor is only liable if it was his proposal not the commissioning authority (Local Authority).

or perhaps if the contractor took shortcuts - did they plan to have fire breaks and were these left out etc..?

 

[Django x2]

I wonder if the banks will find a way to forego their usual security and allow residents to withdraw cash from their accounts without cards or ID.

You mean like, using a signature? Something you've been able to do at every bank, ever, since whenever, without card or ID?

 

[Maccapacca]

With the cost of sprinklers, there was a guy on the radio saying it would cost on average £3,500 per flat to install.

So a 120-flat building could cost £420,000.

Extrapolated out to 2925 buildings (assuming they're all the same size) and you're looking at £1.2bn.

New build sprinklers are £1000 an apartment. I don't know how sprinklers would have helped here, they are only meant to protect the escape route so they are no where near the facade and also with 120 odd apartment sprinklers going off if there would have been enough water pressure do to anything other than dribble out.

They are meant to extinguish one apartments fire that's why they go off with heat, the solder melts on the sprinkler head and it drops off releasing the water.

There's no storage of water in these buildings and the fresh water relies on booster pumps which rely on power.

 

[FTM]

or perhaps if the contractor took shortcuts - did they plan to have fire breaks and were these left out etc..?

thats the main question now....its all well and good the materials meeting specifications, but if its fitted incorrectly then its not going to perform as specified

 

[dowie]

I also wonder how many other buildings in the UK have this sort of cladding fitted, how many local authorities and housing associations now ought to be taking a serious look at what sort of maintenance work they've ordered over the past decade or two.