Tower block fire - london

StriderX · 15 Jun 2017 at 13:29

Hose reels would not have helped here... cant put out a fire when its rapidly rising outside the building.

antijoke · 15 Jun 2017 at 13:33

robfosters said:
PM says residents will be rehomed near the area.

Did she say that when she popped down for 20 minutes to just talk to the emergency services and didn't speak to any residents?

StriderX · 15 Jun 2017 at 13:35

antijoke said:
Did she say that when she popped down for 20 minutes to just talk to the emergency services and didn't speak to any residents?

Doesnt want to be heckled by a constituency that voted Labour, doesnt want to speak to poor people, doesnt want any sort of real discussion.

Scam · 15 Jun 2017 at 13:41

She's sort of lost the plot hasn't she. It's not like people were clambering for her to get down there. Khan had been etc. Just another example of her making herself look bad by trying to do something

FTM · 15 Jun 2017 at 13:47

the other problem with sprinklers in social housing is how do you stop false alarms or people setting them off maliciously

these flats will have communal areas that wont be secure and if they are anything like ours , door entry systems that frequently are not working or are just randomly buzzed by visitors letting anybody in...or more usually by somebody wedging the main entrance door open

then combine possible false alarms or activations or sprinklers with low income occupants having no inusrance

RavenXXX2 · 15 Jun 2017 at 13:48

Basically the refurb with plastic exterior panels doomed a lot of people to death. That and the lack of sprinkler and dodgy alarms mean someone is indirectly responsible for this. Hope they throw the book at em.

Chris Wilson · 15 Jun 2017 at 13:48

Weren't sprinklers made less popular due to vandalism causing costly water damage?

balky12 · 15 Jun 2017 at 13:50

FTM said:
the other problem with sprinklers in social housing is how do you stop false alarms or people setting them off maliciously

The way to counter this is just to have them in each apartment. They are set off by heat. So if they want to set them off maliciously they will only destroy their own apartment.

Mynight · 15 Jun 2017 at 13:52

FTM said:
the other problem with sprinklers in social housing is how do you stop false alarms or people setting them off maliciously

these flats will have communal areas that wont be secure and if they are anything like ours , door entry systems that frequently are not working or are just randomly buzzed by visitors letting anybody in...or more usually by somebody wedging the main entrance door open

then combine possible false alarms or activations or sprinklers with low income occupants having no inusrance

Only ones I've ever come across are heat activated to prevent such issues. I can't imagine they'd tie them into the fire alarm itself as a single fire would destroy all the flats with water rather than just suppressing one.

FTM · 15 Jun 2017 at 13:52

balky12 said:
The way to counter this is just to have them in each apartment. They are set off by heat. So if they want to set them off maliciously they will only destroy their own apartment.

block of flats though....water travels downwards

robfosters · 15 Jun 2017 at 13:57

antijoke said:
Did she say that when she popped down for 20 minutes to just talk to the emergency services and didn't speak to any residents?

I dunno. Blimey, I'm only reporting what I've seen!

balky12 · 15 Jun 2017 at 14:00

FTM said:
block of flats though....water travels downwards

True, the flat below might suffer fair amount of damage, suppose it depends on how the sprinkler operates. If it is heat activated then carries on detecting the heat, a malicious act would be over instantaneously meaning a relatively smaller sprinkler activation time... still would suck for the person below possibly, but it's not going to trash every floor below it.

Still, you will have to have someone who has zero regard of their belongings/ living area. Anything that is lost will not be recoverable through insurance.

dowie · 15 Jun 2017 at 14:01

StriderX said:
Hose reels would not have helped here... cant put out a fire when its rapidly rising outside the building.

you could put it out before it gets to that point though

balky12 · 15 Jun 2017 at 14:02

What's the cost difference between sprinkler systems and a fire suppression system that doesn't use water? I imagine a lot... but would be good to know from someone who has experience. Also if they are implementable in residential buildings.

Chris Wilson · 15 Jun 2017 at 14:02

balky12 said:
The way to counter this is just to have them in each apartment. They are set off by heat. So if they want to set them off maliciously they will only destroy their own apartment.

I can see you are not a landlord and think malicious damage to someone else's property (not "their own" apartment), is uncommon

dowie · 15 Jun 2017 at 14:05

StriderX said:
Doesnt want to be heckled by a constituency that voted Labour

Do you blame her? Obviously if she didn't go then the press would be moaning that she's heartless.. "look Corbyn went where is May" etc.. if she met with local people then as the PM rather than the leader of the opposition there will be some random person deciding the have a big rant and hold her personally responsible etc.. then that would dominate the headlines.

balky12 · 15 Jun 2017 at 14:05

Chris Wilson said:
I can see you are not a landlord and think malicious damage to someone else's property (not "their own" apartment), is uncommon

Indeed I am not... from your experience would you believe that if sprinklers were installed in a building like this that there would be malicious acts all over the place? Intrigued to know.

Hagar · 15 Jun 2017 at 14:08

balky12 said:
What's the cost difference between sprinkler systems and a fire suppression system that doesn't use water? I imagine a lot... but would be good to know from someone who has experience. Also if they are implementable in residential buildings.

You could end up gassing a lot of people. I am thinking of systems that aim to exclude oxygen from the fire triangle

Fuel / heat / oxygen

Water reduces the heat element.

Mynight · 15 Jun 2017 at 14:09

Quick Google suggests sprinklers are a one time use thing. Once the glass shatters it'll carry on pouring water until it's supply is switched off.

Unless there's more modern variants that didn't appear in the results.

dowie · 15 Jun 2017 at 14:15

nkata said:
You could end up gassing a lot of people. I am thinking of systems that aim to exclude oxygen from the fire triangle

Fuel / heat / oxygen

Water reduces the heat element.

and the oxygen bit too... albeit on surfaces not in the air