*Transfer Window 2014/15 Season Rumours/Signings *AKA Man U fans listing every player under the Sun
- Thread starter Robert1986
- Start date
- Status
Soldato
- Joined
- 28 Jan 2008
- Posts
- 7,263
- Location
- Leeds
Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Iniesta spends most of his time on the edge of the opposing teams box floating in. That's not a midfielder. that's an attacking midfielder. Xavi and Busquets are between him and his own box as the normalized "Midfielders".
Even in 2010 when Yaya was there, Iniesta was still the furthest forward of the midfielders. The very definition of an attacking midfielder, being the one closest to the attack.
My point was, they have the same job in that they are their to be a creative source for the goal scorers, and have similar stats. Yes they have different attributes, but the end product is still the same. Ala Messi/Ronaldo.
Soldato
- Joined
- 17 Jun 2012
- Posts
- 9,898
- Location
- South Wales
Surely if playing 352 then di maria doesn't really improve the starting line up. He can't play as one of the wings backs or as one of the CMs. So he takes either Rooney's or Mata's position. Also, Kagwa must have slept with Woodward's daughters, as it seems that they are trying everything to not play him.
If we want to compete with the likes of Chelsea and other big spending clubs (not saying we arent a big spending club), we have to keep making our mark by buying these players when then become available. How many attacking midfielders have Chelsea bought over time when they didn't need them?
By proving to the world we still can sign this calibre of player paves the way for other signings.
World class players say they aren't renewing their contract? GET THE CHEQUE BOOK.
By proving to the world we still can sign this calibre of player paves the way for other signings.
World class players say they aren't renewing their contract? GET THE CHEQUE BOOK.
Soldato
- Joined
- 28 Jan 2008
- Posts
- 7,263
- Location
- Leeds
Think we'll start moving towards 4-3-3 with a signing or two more hopefully by the end of the window. As some have said Blind and maybe another CM with rumours range from Vidal to De Jong. Maybe wait for Strootman in January.
Perhaps something like this:
..................De Gea
Rafael....Jones....Rojo.....Shaw
..................Blind...................
........Herrera.....Mata
Di Maria........RVP........Rooney
We need someone like Di Maria, not because we don't have enough attackers, it's because we literally have no pace up front, it's too slow. It has been since Ronaldo/Tevez left. Everything stalls up there. and Welbeck/nani/valencia/young are all abosolutely useless for all the pace they possess.
Edit: Personally wouldn't have bought Mata, i'd have just used kagawa who i think is superb, but we can't throw 40 million on a similar player and not use him. So Sadly for Kagawa he's excess
Last edited:
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
You'd be pretty much wrong then.
http://www.espnfc.com/gamecast/252784/gamecast.html
Just picked a random season a while back, looking at stats he had 1 goal 3 assists for this particular game. He's listed as a forward for good reason, during his best years he played wide left frequently. When he's not it's much closer to Xavi/Busquets sitting alondside with Iniesta ahead of them, INiesta isn't a standard central midfielder, even when he plays centrally he's usually running down the left wing and running around inside the left side of the box. He's a left forward in pretty much every way and plays similarly to Di Maria, focuses on dribbling, which he's exceptional at, poor shooting, average to poor crossing and often holds on to the ball too long, dive a hell of a lot. Di Maria is faster, taller and stronger, but they play very very similarly.
As for Iniesta being truly great, never scored more than 8 league goals in a season.... for a forward/no.10 style player, okay, loads of assists then, more than 9 assists once in his career. This is a very attacking player with little to no defensive responsibilities who averages around 40-45 shots a year, who also averages 4 or so goals and 7 or so assists.
As with so many players, I always find that if someone dribbles well people inflate how they rate that player drastically. Dribbling and holding the ball looks effective so people think they are effective, even when the end product is hopeless(Lennon/SWP/hundreds of others who people think are exciting but after years and years of little end product people realise they are just crap).
he's not terrible, and he really is a fantastic dribbler, but for a guy who players in very attacking roles his contribution is weak overall.
He is a bit of a big game player though, which is a great thing to have, if you're going to have 5 great games a season it's better it's against Real or Utd in the champs league, but he's still meh for way way too many games a season to be considered world class.
http://www.espnfc.com/gamecast/239781/gamecast.html
champs league against Utd, Deco, Yaya, Xavi midfield, Iniesta wide left, Henry subbed on for him into the same position. There are countless examples, and you only have to watch any Barca game today where he does usually start centrally, to see he spends most of his time left wing, left edge of the box, all his runs are in the left forward channel, he's spent 80% of his career playing in the left forward channels regardless of his official starting position. After Deco it was Keita, it was only really the last four years he's started more inside, though still basically plays in the same area.
Last edited:
Doesn't the Rojo signing make it clear LvG is going with 3 at the back? Surely there were better CB's out there if you were going to play with 4 at the back.
And Mata as part of a midfield 3 is risky and puts a lot of pressure on Herrera and any dm you might sign.
Edit: and we all know you don't rate Iniesta dm. As I said, Iniesta at his best (2008 to a year or so ago) played in a midfield 3 with Xavi ahead of Toure and then Busquets.
And Mata as part of a midfield 3 is risky and puts a lot of pressure on Herrera and any dm you might sign.
Edit: and we all know you don't rate Iniesta dm. As I said, Iniesta at his best (2008 to a year or so ago) played in a midfield 3 with Xavi ahead of Toure and then Busquets.
Last edited:
It's a bit puzzling, but he can cover the LB which I think was part of the thinking, and he's a left footed player which Van Gaal favours at LCB.
It's risky, but it's the kind of 4-3-3 that he's played before. Holland was playing with Strootman holding and VdV / Sneijder in front of him, it only changed because Strootman got injured and LVG said he couldn't replace Strootman.
I think Mata could play the role to be honest, but I would say that it means he's less of a guaranteed starter. Like I said yesterday, the amount of speculation that we're letting Hernandez & Welbeck go and then buying Di Maria suggests to me we're going to be playing only one of RvP / Rooney in the striker position.
Just to keep up the transfer part:
Twitter said:
Last edited:
Caporegime
- Joined
- 21 Nov 2005
- Posts
- 41,255
- Location
- Cornwall
Iniesta not World Class? Iniesta?
UEFA Best Player in Europe Award: 2012
Euro 2012 Player of the Tournament: 2012
UEFA Champions League Best Player: 2011–12
FIFA Ballon d'Or: 2nd place 2010, 4th Place 2011, 3rd Place 2012
Onze de Bronze: 2009
La Liga Spanish Player of the Year: 2009
Trofeo Alfredo di Stéfano: 2nd best player in La Liga 2008–09, 3rd in 2011–12
IFFHS World's Best Playmaker: 2012, 2013
La Liga's Best Attacking Midfielder: 2009, 2011, 2012, 2013.
Marca Legend Award: 2011
FIFA Confederations Cup Silver Ball: 2013
FIFA Puskás Award: 2nd place 2009
2010 FIFA World Cup All-Star Team
2010 FIFA World Cup Man Of The Match vs. Chile, Paraguay and Final vs Netherlands
UEFA Euro Team of the Tournament: 2008, 2012
UEFA Euro 2008 Man Of The Match Semi-final vs. Russia
UEFA Euro 2012 Man Of The Match vs. Italy, Croatia, Final vs Italy
FIFA/FIFPro World XI: 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013
UEFA Team of the Year: 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012
ESM Team of the Year: 2010–11
Last edited:
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2008_Final
Iniesta playing wide in the euro final.
At his best 2008, he played WIDE LEFT, not central midfield, regardless of what you think. It's much more recent that he was moved inside and he still plays in almost identical role and positions.
Watch literally any game and you'll see Iniesta running up and down the left wing all game long, all of his attacking will be from left wing running to left side of the penalty box. Xavi plays behind Iniesta, not alongside him.
No you're getting confused from when he sometimes plays as the LW in the front three. Baz is right - Iniesta is a central midfielder and plays that position. You don't have to be an attacking midfielder or a defensive midfielder. Both Xavi and Iniesta were/are central midfielders.
They normally line up as follows. The shape is pretty much the same but obviously the personnel can differ:
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
So rather than talk about how he plays, where he plays, how many goals he's scored or assists he's made for an ultra attacking player and how they look poor against every top forward/acm in every top league thoughout his entire career.... you throw popularity contest results at me. okay.....
Even though with every uefa team of the year, or ballon de stupid team choices everyone, literally everyone in every thread laughs at the stupid inclusions that are clearly not based in reality... every single thread this happens from everyone who posts but then we will also use these things as proof of someones greatness.... which is it?
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=25660125&postcount=147
with people laughing at the choices... this isn't the best example just the first thread I found. Luiz was cack, Pique is a horrible defender, Casillas didn't play yet made it into the team of the year, Ozil, no.... etc.
You may eventually learn that all these things are based around marketing. People like Barca/Spain, so they pick the most popular players regardless of if they played well or not, that is how it works. Uefa/Fifa individual/team awards are based around maximum marketing value, nothing else.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
No, Keita, Yaya, Deco all played for spain did they, that was ANOTHER link, the first one was for Barca showing exactly where he was playing at that time, wide left. He played wide left way more often than centrally up to around 2010-11. He still today, again please grasp this, he still if you watch ANY game, will work almost exclusively up and down the left wing, he is always getting much further forward than Xavi, absolutely always has done. Anyone and everyone suggesting he plays alongside Xavi is literally nuts or doesn't watch Barca at all.
More to the point, how many of the best players in the world play a different position for their country?
I replied to your post where you linked to a Spain match
From around 2008, Iniesta's mainly played as part of the midfield 3. I can't be bothered debating this with you anymore dm.
Bloody hell that's mental price. I think the money would be better spent in central midfield. If LVGs long term plan is to go 433 then it's even more important to get better central midfielders in.
Edit: £64m
Caporegime
- Joined
- 21 Nov 2005
- Posts
- 41,255
- Location
- Cornwall
Looks like Lucas might be moving to Napoli on loan for the year... before coming back to Liverpool after they decide not to take up the option to buy him 
He's a true professional in every sense of the word and had to put up with a lot of crap early on in his Liverpool career so it's sad to see a player like that who gave his all end up ruined with injuries. Best Brazilian DM to play in the Premiership at his peak and statistically the best in Europe for a season or two. How'd you like them Apples?
He's a true professional in every sense of the word and had to put up with a lot of crap early on in his Liverpool career so it's sad to see a player like that who gave his all end up ruined with injuries. Best Brazilian DM to play in the Premiership at his peak and statistically the best in Europe for a season or two. How'd you like them Apples?
I posted awards he's been given, you posted garbage based on your own dislike of him. If you watched football rather than sat looking through spreadsheets of data you might actually be in a better position to judge who is and who isn't a good player
- Status