Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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do_ron_ron said:
They are now.
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In what way? bare in mind Im not saying I only read the BBC I just think a comparison to RT is way off. the number of ex presenters quitting and confirming internal pressure for "anti west" stories and their complete tabloid journalism is completely different to the BBC, although quality of reporting has gone down its in a "ease of use" way, not PR for a government.
You can use those articles linked previous in your conversation with nulir as examples of that. prepared to go back on previous reports, not sensationalist, able to show another side of a story etc etc.



Where does this come from in relation to my post?
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It doesnt, that is in reply to JDL's post. forgot the name in the quote box :)

Ditto.
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If you like but I'm posting russian and "rebel" links as well.

As linked in news, Poland has decided to follow NATO's recommendation and spend 2% of GDP on defence.
http://www.france24.com/en/20150215-poland-kicks-off-unprecedented-military-spending-spree/
 
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Nutella33 said:
In what way? bare in mind Im not saying I only read the BBC I just think a comparison to RT is way off. the number of ex presenters quitting and confirming internal pressure for "anti west" stories and their complete tabloid journalism is completely different to the BBC, although quality of reporting has gone down its in a "ease of use" way, not PR for a government.
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As far as foreign news items of political interest the BBC sticks to the Govt. line. I actually knew more British involvement in about for example, the situation in Libya from French TV than I did from the BBC. Since various cuts the BBC most often gets its stories from news feeds.
The range of stories have massively decreased. Now you are more likely to get ads disguised as news stories for say Dr Who than real news.





It doesnt, that is in reply to JDL's post. forgot the name in the quote box :)
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OK

If you like but I'm posting russian and "rebel" links as well.

As linked in news, Poland has decided to follow NATO's recommendation and spend 2% of GDP on defence.
http://www.france24.com/en/20150215-poland-kicks-off-unprecedented-military-spending-spree/[/
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Duh. Ditto means the same, so in the context used was

Where does this come from in relation to my post?
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So your reply was even more bizarre.
 
do_ron_ron said:
As far as foreign news items of political interest the BBC sticks to the Govt. line. I actually knew more British involvement in about for example, the situation in Libya from French TV than I did from the BBC.
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That'll be why every government moans about the bbc being against them then?
If you were to only read one news source you miss various points out on a variety of things, That's the same for any source as you know from reading different ones. I'm curious though as I was involved in Libya and I dont remember much missing from the national narrative. What extra involvement did you learn about?

Since various cuts the BBC most often gets its stories from news feeds.
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Yes that's known. Taking events from Reuters or AP hardly puts it as comparable to RT though. repeating a story is better than just plain old making one up, It also directly links to your next complaint. they are having to do this because of the budget cuts but still wanting to cover a wide range of topics. Again, I'm not arguing the BBC hasnt suffered from cuts, it just doesn't make it comparable to RT.

The range of stories have massively decreased. Now you are more likely to get ads disguised as news stories for say Dr Who than real news.
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all other news channels advertise their own channel content? why wouldn't the BBC?

Currently I'm just seeing an hidden argument for more funding to the BBC, I Agree ;) :p

Ditto means the same, so in the context used was....So your reply was even more bizarre.
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I was reading your ditto as just applying to the quote it was under and not the previous quote as well. The answers the same, It wasn't an answer to you, it was to JL10000.



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DPR Is Claiming Horlivka Is Being Shelled By Ukr Forces, Asks Help Of Osce - Russian Media
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We also have a video from Debaltsevo apparently showing a T72B3 (russian only type tank)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkbVnpEbVwY

And a picture from russian lifenews TV which apparently shows the 136-th Infantry Brigade BMP in Debaltseve

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/B96rJM7IEAA8TEW.jpg
 
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[TW]Fox;27632892 said:
Why hasn't there been a vote in Spain for Catalunya? Why no vote in Northern Ireland? Why not vote for the people of Cornwall? Because you can't just randomly split a country up because some vocal and violent residents want you too.
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Well we have done just that with Kosovo and we have supported independence of Chechnya, have we not?

Yes I do agree you cannot and should not just randomly split countries, but when the divide is so clear and things have turned this bloody... It seems the only way to go to stop blood-shed.

I am not saying we should divide, I say let people of Donbass chose who they want to be with... Isnt that the proper democratic way we should be protecting and supporting around the world after all???

Let people of Donbass vote, let the UN enforce this vote by force if its not respected by the "loud and violent"

How hard can it be?

I repeat again, if we have a referendum in Crimea as of now with UN observers, do you think people will vote to join Ukraine?

Why do we support the "loud and violent" in Libya and Sirya and yet we refuse to let people decide their path in democratic elections which are observed by United Nations?
 
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Nutella33 said:
We also have a video from Debaltsevo apparently showing a T72B3 (russian only type tank)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkbVnpEbVwY

And a picture from russian lifenews TV which apparently shows the 136-th Infantry Brigade BMP in Debaltseve

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/B96rJM7IEAA8TEW.jpg
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Dunno who is actually operating them but there is atleast 3x T72B variants flying the rebel flag along with 100+ BTR and BMPs and 2 dozen support trucks positioned approx 30km or so NE of Maruipol.

EDIT: Assume they are rebels as fair few flat beds, removal type vans, etc. filling in for some roles i.e. AA.
 
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jl10000 said:
It isn't a global conspiracy, this is what all wars are about; money and power. Forget all that rubbish about freedom, democracy, patriotism.
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Would it upset you to know it is about money and power? As is anything a country does to improve its stature on the world stage? Or should we all dream of this utopian world that will never exist?
 
delta0 said:
Then it is inevitable that the U.S. will arm the Ukraine.
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With what?

I mean it's not like we're talking about ethiopia here, excluding nuclear weapons, navy and fighter jets Ukraine's military rivals the UKs.
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Nutella33 said:
Not actually an issue. Doesn't matter how old the photos may be if they are genuine, nor does it discount the rest of the photos which arnt from him.
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I have no way of knowing if they are genuine, or even what they show. But I do know the US have satellites that can read the headlines of a newspaper lying on a stand. So the fact that their "evidence" seems to have been taken via a SVGA webcam raises doubts in my mind, looks like they are deliberately giving just enough to raise doubts but not enough to prove anything. Surely if they could prove it they would?
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Nelly said:
I bet Putin wouldn't have seized Crimea if Ukraine had kept their nuclear weapons.
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Of course not, Kiev have already said that was a mistake and inferred their desire to re-arm once this is over.
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Nutella33 said:
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Also appears that Putin. in posting the minsk agreement has acknowledged his forces in ukraine.

2. The withdrawal of all heavy weapons by both parties at equal distances in order to create a security zone width of at least 50 km from each other for artillery systems caliber of 100 mm or more, a security zone width of 70 km and a width for the MLRS 140 km for the MLRS "Tornado-S" "Hurricane," "Twister" and tactical missile systems "Point" ("point Y"):
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"Tornado" being a brand new system for the russians that only entered service in 2012.
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I think that's just a catch all statement, because "Tornado-S" entered service in late 2014, and as they only have a dozen or so of the things I doubt they would have sent them all to Ukraine.
 
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Nutella33 said:
We also have a video from Debaltsevo apparently showing a T72B3 (russian only type tank)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkbVnpEbVwY
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That video narrows it down to about a dozen T variants, people don't seem to understand how many types of these things the are and how similar they look.

I.E heres a ******** thing from last year when they claimed that a video rebels uploaded of a captured Ukrainian tank was actually T72B3 (and must have come from Russia) because of it's Thales imaging system:

http://www.********.com/view?i=708_1410813436

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkRtOSk1tps&channel=UC7Gci7Fe2oiYKV5HSAc8Edg

Turns out it was actually a T72-M1 as many T series use Thales systems, in fact Ukraine tendered to install them on Indians T72's back in 2001.
 
hmmm got a link for that? since the only info I can find about the T72-M1 is its a russian only rebuild.

now the question I have - did I see a T90 in 1 of the video`s??
 
sorry yes ofc - the Ukraine tender for the india T72 upgrades ;

all info I can find is its the manufacturer - Uralvagonzavod who made the upgrade and the offer to the Indians (along with the T90-S and T90-M)
 
2 different tank types on there (as well as bmp)

definitely a T72B3 im afraid @ 27 seconds in on that video.

the IR lamp has been removed and you can see the Sosna-U gunners sight on the left side of the turret.

with the IR Lamp on the right side its a T72BA (or BM) but with the Kontakt-5 and the Sosna-U its a B3.

they are the very latest Russian main line equipment.
 
Harlequin said:
2 different tank types on there (as well as bmp)

definitely a T72B3 im afraid @ 27 seconds in on that video.

the IR lamp has been removed and you can see the Sosna-U gunners sight on the left side of the turret.

with the IR Lamp on the right side its a T72BA (or BM) but with the Kontakt-5 and the Sosna-U its a B3.

they are the very latest Russian main line equipment.
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Which begs the question why are we refusing Ukraine when Russian is arming the rebels and fueling this conflict? I accept some of their equipment will have been seized from Ukraine but to be able to sustain a 1yr long military operation against the government is stretching it :rolleyes:
 
Harlequin said:
hmmm I thought they went with Russia in the end , as the listed tanks are T72-M1
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Well, this is the complicated thing, as the T72 was a Soviet tank not a Russian tank, the are numerous players capable of repairing/maintaining/upgrading them. Similar to how you can get your Lexus serviced/repaired at a Toyota dealership and it will save money.

The designs are somewhat modular-ish. A T72-ZX81 (obviously made up) is just a T72 with certain things changed or added, Russia/Ukraine/more could all do the upgrade to a basic T72 if you paid enough.

Hence why Ukraine's "home built" T-84 is a development of the T-80 platform which was built in Russia and Ukraine, and is itself a development of the T-64 which was again built in Russia and Ukraine.

Due to all this it is completely impossible to look at any T series tank and say for definite it is a X because it could just as easily be a Y with Z added. I.E If I was in a war and had a bunch of Y tanks ready to roll plus some spare Z armour and my engineers knew how to fit it I would have them send it in with the kitchen sink strapped on, figuratively speaking.
 
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looking at the `sales brochure` - Ukraine offer SNECMA optics not thales - only the Russian M1 offer thales kit (IAI offer Israeli optics etc) ; T84 was born of the failure of the T80 in Chechnya
 
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