Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

The EU should have thought about that when they aided and abetted the destabilisation of the previous and democratically elected Ukrainian government.

This, there was a signed agreement between all parties that Yanukovich would step down.

Euromaidan did not like that, so they staged a coup which went against all agreements reached on international level.

They forcefully overtook whole government and we supported it.

The mess Ukraine is in, is its own and only theirs fault... If Yanukovich left as agreed and Poroshenko came to power,Ukraine would still have Crimea and Donbass while still being pro-EU.

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

I just find it hilarious that we "found" chemical weapons in Iraq and yet best we can do here is point to pictures of Poroshenko with Russian passports in his hands and look at twitter pictures.

If Russia was at war with Ukraine, Ukraine would not last any longer than a week.

I do not deny that Russians are providing help to separatists and allow or encourage private individuals to come and fight in Ukraine.

But the idea that Ukraine thinks its in full blown war against Russia is hilarious.

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

Go for it. I'm just showing what's been reported. no comments on the russian only hardware tho?


PS you do understand that that is a rule which can (and often is) waved, especially for SF?
You may also try to understand if they are trying to keep up deniability they wouldn't act to the letter with army regs? for example using internal passports instead of military ID's, growing beards and being forced to sign contracts predeployment? (the latter story is coming from russians btw)

I have seen ISIL and Taliban with Ak-47. Russian Hardware. OMG RUSSIA IS SUPPORTING ISIL AND TALIBAN!!!

I am sure if they tried to keep up deniability, these people would have no passports and NO insignia on Uniform... A.k.a Crimea...

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

because Russia did so well against Georgia or the chechans didn't they.....

Georgia war = 5 days, Georgia lost all its military complex along with blown up factories, roads, railroads. Russian army with countless artillery pieces within firing range of Tbilisi.

Chechnya = 94-2000 = result is that Chechnya is part of RF.


How about we talk about Iraq,Afghanistan. How well we doing there?

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

and more Russians dead than Georgians.... also it was the prelude to a Russian invasion of south ossetia and Abkhazia

Russians - 67 deaths
Georgia - 169

and P.S

Reason why Russians even had that many casualties is because "friendly" Ukraine supplied AA missiles with Ukrainian manned crew to Georgia which helped to maintain closed skies for a short while.

Actually, the exact same system that shot the MH flight.

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

So some of you think that there ain't any Russian army in Ukraine at the moment?lol

Are there ex/current members of Russian army in Ukraine? No doubt.

Is Russian army at war with Ukraine as Ukraine claims? lol.

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

lol and you trust WIKI - I laugh.

those 69 are numbers supplied by Russia - other sources say it was over 500 dead. but please carry on

Same ones that claim that 10 000 Russian regular army soldiers died in Ukraine so far?

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

the Russians had to use chemical weapons in grozny - and they still lost

Yeah, they threw Tsar bomba on it too...

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

Yes he is. the group that he is referencing is the Union of Soldiers’ Mothers Committees, which has followed russian casualties since the cold war. their claim is actually around 3,500 dead for the Ukraine.


he's taking the **** because he doesn't think it happened. naturally grozny was glorious victory.

I said Ukranian claims.

http://ipress.ua/ru/ljlive/potery_r...ytih_mestnih_separatystov__ekspert_81603.html

Russian casualties in the war against Ukraine - from 7 to 12 thousand people, without regard to local separatists killed - expert

I decided to go for 10k rather than 12, see, I am sensible.


Chemical weapons in Grozny along with blown up apartments in Moscow are 9/11 territory... Hence, tin-foil hat. Your arguments are invalid.


P.S

Russian expected losses in Ukraine according to the article.

Loss of Russian soldiers and officers in Ukraine GSH Russian Defense Ministry has calculated : 113 thousand . People. killed and wounded ...

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

ofc - so chemical weapons in grozny along with chemical weapons in Syria - all 9/11 stuff yeah? wait - the bodies from nerve agents displayed in mass graves are also 9/11 stuff - ofc I forgot

I think you missed a UN report concluding that it wasnt Assad who used Chemical weapons

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

Can someone explain to me, what kind of "lethal" weapons are we going to supply to Ukraine that will make them win the war overnight?

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

You do understand that any piece of equipment that has potential to change the tide in the war is extremely complicated?

Even the "Javelin" that has been thrown around here, is a very complicated piece of equipment, its hardly your RPG-7 and requires 2 trained men to operate.

If we give Ukraine lets say Abrams or Leopard 2 or Patriot AA system... This will give Russians excuse to give their T-90`s and S-400`s... Only difference is that Russian trained personnel will be sitting behind those systems, while NATO equipment will be operated by someone who possibly cannot even read English.

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

nukes - the ones they gave up....

Well if we ignore the fact that if Ukraine uses nukes it will be turned into waste-land within next 10 minutes....

How are they going to even deliver it?

They have no sophisticated equipment to do so.

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

No ones supplying them yet and no-ones saying anything overnight.

Their main need is Anti Tank weapons and counter battery fire radar and control. 70% of casualties are from shelling and the armour is presenting a problem generally.

No-ones going to be giving them Abrams or patriots :/

http://news.yahoo.com/us-delivers-anti-mortar-radars-ukraine-pentagon-222447307.html

Which Anti-Tank weapons are going to save the day then?

As I keep saying, Javelin is hardly your RPG-7... France only has 76 launchers and barely any countries have over 100 of them.

Now how many will we give and how long will it take to train the crew and how many of these will be captured and used against Ukraine?


Russia will clearly respond to this, how effective will 100 Javelins be against lets say... 2000 units of RPG-20+ series?

Its like having 1 King Tiger versus 10 T-34/85`s. We all know how that ended.

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

Anti Mortar isnt the only counter battery tool, as the name suggests its not much use against MLRS or heavy artillery. So if we were to supply them it would be the heavier counter battery radars like the British MAMBA system.

swedish GIRAFFE would be ideal, not too hitech but works and loads of them about > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIRAFFE_Radar
.

Due to close proximity of fighting to Russian border, these systems will be jammed by Russians with little to no difficulty.

Ukraine already has AT weapons similar to Milans or TOW...

9k111 Faggot, 9M113, 9K115-2, SKIF, RPG-29, RPG-22,RPG-18.

Only game changer here would be a Javelin if used properly and supplied in thousands.

I keep repeating same thing, even if you outnumber AT weapons against tanks it hardly guarantees success, because the Russians will do exactly same thing, taking everyone back to square 0 just with a lot more casualties.

Only issue is that if we up the game to supply sophisticated equipment, we will struggle with personnel, while the Russians will easily supply trained crew along with the equipment.

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

Germany and France have made it clear that they do not want the US sending weapons into Ukraine.

Well its a smart move, because all other factors ignored,

The Russians will match it and beat it, not because it is a better equipment but due to usability and ability to send trained personnel to operate it.

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

They are designed to be used near the enemy you muppet. That's the entire basis of them.


Yes but they need *more*. availability is the issue not necessarily the technology. oh and of the ones you just listed none of them are close to MILAN or TOW apart from konkars and metis...which are both provided by the russians, so thats going to run out soon.


Please stop acting like the only viable thing is a "wonder weapon" and that's all that people are suggesting. simply more of what they have would do with a few areas of capability filled in.


True. US reckons Italy, Poland and the UK will though apparently, and they could go it alone. Obama has both houses to the republicans.

And Jammers were designed to Jam them Only difference is that we will give 70`s tech while Russians will deploy 2000`s technology on the border (maybe even inside Ukraine)

Ukraine has 800 of Fagots, 500 of Konkurs and a few of Metises and Skifs which are essentially a copy of TOW.

Pretty sure thats more than amount of Heavy Armory the Rebels have.... You can use RPG-7 to pierce BTRS.

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

Heres a hint. Jamming is not always totally effective and things like encryption and frequency agility have been around since WW2.


had. A year ago, before bases got captured in crimea and bases were lost in eastern ukraine....and before they have been at war for the same amount of time :/


1 missile doesn't equal 1 kill, total stock before the war doesnt equal stock now and if I was holding an AT weapon I'd prefer it wasn't one that required me to be 500m from the target when most of the fighting is over open fields!

Your disconnect from reality is startling. I think I'm going to have to use the ignore feature.

Ukraine had >1300 units of sophisticated AT weaponry a year ago. You do realize that even if they managed to evaporate 1000 of those, 300 would still be enough to outmatch amount of Armory the rebels have right?

1300 is a very conservative estimate and I am pretty sure the real number of "sophisticated AT" would be around 2000.

Furthermore, RPGS-20+ series are more than capable to take out T-72`s.

Your jamming point is completely invalid, it is extremely easy to completely jam whole frequencies especially when there is 3-4 decade difference in technologies.

The only thing hilarious I find rather than your claim of me being dissociated, is those pictures US presented showing "Russian" equipment inside Ukraine.

Chemical weapons in Iraq at least looked like a good job and we still cant find them... Now we have pictures from Twitter and Satelite pics of random armory god knows where that is 100% Russian.

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

I love these pro Russian people, living it up in Western democracy.

Move!!!

So, if I dont agree with "Western Democracy" foreign actions, such as war on Iraq due to chemical weapons (which were never found and disproved by UN)

War in Libya, where we took country to stone age and left it in hands of idiots so much so that its in 2nd war right now.

I should move to Russia?

I guess thats same style as Ukranians are treating Donbass people "Dont wanna do as we want to, go to Russia"

So much democracy, much freedom, much free speech.

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

It would be a very big diplomatic issue if the US helps fuel a civil war on the border of Europe and just ignores what Germany and France want. I still haven't worked out why the US has any business in the conflict other than being part of international efforts to end the war as soon as possible, which supplying weapons will not do, utter madness!

Cause we are world Police, we sort issues by giving more guns and escalating things so they can all kill each-other...

After all, they are not on our border are they... Its EU whos going to have to deal with humanitarian crisis and refugees not us.

Also, just a quckie Those of you who slither all over Crimea Annexation... If tomorrow there is a referendum in Crimea with all UN countries observation, and the question will be either to Stay in RF or Go back to Ukraine...

What will be the outcome? I am just curious.