Weekend Football Thread. *spoilers* 22nd-24th

[jakeke]

Dunno, my only point was that Arsenal played the 5th placed team last year (and consistently the best in the prem outside the Top 4 recently) with the same team they had for most parts of last year and the difference in quality in the teams was still clear.

Arsenal seem to improved their attitude this year and their cohesion on the pitch, they're stronger than last year (IF they keep this up)

 

[Shamikebab]

Right, But Burnley beat last years Champions (not to mention European runners-up) So surely by your logic they must be contenders then?

 

[BFCTom]

The arguments people get themselves into in this forum are ridiculous at times

 

[Shamikebab]

I'm just making a point that you can't make ridiculous conclusions from one match

 

[Pigeon_Killer]

Happy birthday

 

[Shamikebab]

ta

 

[Tummy]

Happy Birthday Sham

 

[Gustov]

No but I don't think Carrick is in the same league as Fabregas, Lampard, Gerrard but it doesn't mean that Man Utd are going to come 4th because Carrick isn't as good as the other teams comparative players, your logic is flawed

He also cost £1m, not £20m+ and is 21, give the lad a chance ..

I wouldn't really call Carrick a defensive midfielder. Sure he can do it but it's not his natural position. He's just a playmaker with no flair So I'm afraid my logic is not flawed....

Uniteds midfield is their weakness anyway, just as well they have exceptional defensive and attacking options.

Tummy you lump, where's your carling cup thread?

 

[Tummy]

Doing it. don't get your knickers in a twist Gussy.

Carrick isn't a defensive mid, he's playing there due to Hargreaves been dead.

 

[FrankJH]

Carrick isn't a defensive mid, he's playing there due to Hargreaves been dead.

Hopefully huge exaggeration there although no one has seen him for seemingly yearsssssss lol

 

[jakeke]

Right, But Burnley beat last years Champions (not to mention European runners-up) So surely by your logic they must be contenders then?

No

 

[HangTime]

It must be of some concern that Rafa has described this weekends game against Bolton as a "must win". People around the club must be somewhat nervous that we are already talking about must win games on the 4th game of the season.

In my opinion a game against Bolton is a must win for any team with serious ambitions of winning the league regardless of when it comes, unless it's right at the end of the season when the title's already been decided obviously.

That's the biggest problem with some football mentality I think, people are too happy to tolerate dropped points early in the season. In years gone by you could win the title with 80pts, but Roman Abramovich has raised the bar. In the past 5 seasons, the 2nd placed side has always got AT LEAST 83pts. That NEVER happened before in (20 team) Premiership history. You get the same number of points for winning games in August as you do in April, so it's best to grab them while you can.

 

[Tummy]

I have never understood, and will never understand the idea that games at the end of the season are somehow worth more points.

You get 3 points for a win, 1 for a draw, doesn't matter where abouts in the season you get them. If you want to win the League you need to win as many as you can, that includes the games at the start.

 

[FrankJH]

It also seems to be the case that Chelsea and Arsenal are always better at the start of the season than Man Utd - and its during the winter period where Ud usually catch up.

Margins are definitely getting smaller though (ie fewer points can be afforded to be lost by the title chasing teams

The big difference at the moment is that the top four are only playing EPL games - which is pretty rare throughout the rest of the season (unless they get knocked out of Cups early etc), so would hope to get some consistancy early

I have never understood, and will never understand the idea that games at the end of the season are somehow worth more points.

You get 3 points for a win, 1 for a draw, doesn't matter where abouts in the season you get them. If you want to win the League you need to win as many as you can, that includes the games at the start.

You are right practically - however emotionally I dont believe that is the case. Lose a game now, and rightfullly so "there is enough time to catch uo (to the EPL leaders) - lose a game in April however could be a completely different story. It may still be the same three points but emotion / form is twice as important near the end of the season as it is in the beginning

 

[HangTime]

It also seems to be the case that Chelsea and Arsenal are always better at the start of the season than Man Utd - and its during the winter period where Ud usually catch up.

Doesn't always work like that though, MU aren't some kind of machine that flicks a switch for the run-in and powers ahead of the rest.

In both 97-8 and 03-04 MU were leading the Premiership at Christmas, but couldn't live with Arsenal storming through to take the title (Chelsea also overtook them in 2004). Arsenal also overcame an 11pt deficit in 1998 (although to be fair that was in Spring, not Winter).

emotion / form is twice as important near the end of the season as it is in the beginning

When it comes to the league, I disgree. IMO emotion / form is arguably MORE important at the start of the season, because there are more games ahead to benefit/suffer from good/bad emotion/form. We've seen situations before where teams have never recovered from bad starts, with plenty of 'too good to go down' sides like Leeds, Forest, West Ham, Newcastle etc getting relegated. Ultimately I'm of the belief that the lost points are more damaging than the psychological impact anyway, but there you go.

Obviously from a Cup perspective, there's more to be gained from good form towards the end of the season as very few knockout games are played in the early part of the season.

 

[Tom84]

In both 97-8 and 03-04 MU were leading the Premiership at Christmas, but couldn't live with Arsenal storming through to take the title (Chelsea also overtook them in 2004). Arsenal also overcame an 11pt deficit in 1998 (although to be fair that was in Spring, not Winter).

We were never at one point ahead of Chelsea during either of their Championship seasons - that was the problem

EDIT: I assume you did mean Chelsea over took United?

 

[HangTime]

Yes, both Arsenal and Chelsea did in 2004.

 

[atpbx]

Writing off the manager now are we?

I'm asking the question by the way

He is 67 years old, he announced last year he had a maximum of three years left at the very very most.
He has a weak squad, that everybody (the fans, the media) can see needs key areas reinforcing, he has a shed load of cash to spend and has not spent any of it.
So 2+2 = 4 as far as I'm concerned, its the only way to explain his reasons for going into the season with the squad in the state its in.

 

[TheCenturion]

He is 67 years old, he announced last year he had a maximum of three years left at the very very most.
He has a weak squad, that everybody (the fans, the media) can see needs key areas reinforcing, he has a shed load of cash to spend and has not spent any of it.
So 2+2 = 4 as far as I'm concerned, its the only way to explain his reasons for going into the season with the squad in the state its in.

He's not spent any of it? Hasn't he signed Valencia, Owen (given that was a free transfer) and Obertan?

 

[Liefrich]

He is 67 years old, he announced last year he had a maximum of three years left at the very very most.
He has a weak squad, that everybody (the fans, the media) can see needs key areas reinforcing, he has a shed load of cash to spend and has not spent any of it.
So 2+2 = 4 as far as I'm concerned, its the only way to explain his reasons for going into the season with the squad in the state its in.

Are you sure you support Manchester United?

You were equally negative last year yet we managed to win the League and League cup and got to a Champions League Final.

What players would improve are squad and are not stupidly priced? As you seem to no more about football management than SAF....