What do gamers actually think about Ray-Tracing?

[JediFragger]

0/10 effort - not enough puddles.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Puddles.

 

[ICDP]

No that's not true but it is easy to think that when mainstream tech jurnoes pretend like Cyberpunk is the only RT game.

There's plenty its just that most of them don't provide the same narrative.

Exactly, and the majority are playable in even mid range GPUs from last gen. RT is a cherry on top thing right now and hence why the majority think “is this it”.

It also explains why after all these years CP2077 is still the go to poster child for RT. It is the same narrative from the same suspects and they desperately cling to it as “proof”.

 

[Nexus18]

Exactly, and the majority are playable in even mid range GPUs from last gen. RT is a cherry on top thing right now and hence why the majority think “is this it”.

It also explains why after all these years CP2077 is still the go to poster child for RT. It is the same narrative from the same suspects and they desperately cling to it as “proof”.

Cp 2077 is the go to poster child because it is the first triple a game to use the full RT and then PT to showcase the technology. Same way BF 5 and control were the poster child when 20xx came along to showcase the first RT games. CP 2077 is still the best example we have of PT too, of course, people could reference to all the full PT/RTX remix titles which have PT like quake, minecraft, mario and so on but they aren't the same calibre as cp 2077 when it comes to popularity and being a "new" game. As simple as that really.

Metro EE is one that should be brought up more but for some reason the anti RT brigade seem to like to forget about that one, probably because it debunks the "but RT doesn't run well!!!!" arguments.....

Dying light 2 was also the go to at the time but alas, it was then considered to not be fair because "devs clearly put no effort into the raster version in order to make RT look better".



The usual suspects still continue to say most games don't have RT even though they don't post anything to show this other than referring to indie games on steam, talk about clutching at straws.....

 

[Robert896r1]

Alan Wake 2 is better at Path Tracing than even CP. it’s the best RT example to date.

Well done RT goes a long way to making HDR standout better, it’s a nice bonus. I like both equally.

 

[Nexus18]

Alan Wake 2 is better at Path Tracing than even CP. it’s the best RT example to date.

Well done RT goes a long way to making HDR standout better, it’s a nice bonus. I like both equally.

AW 2 is nice but CP 2077 is better imo when you consider the size and density of the game world not to mention being open world.

I think the next big one will be that black myth wukong game.

Also, the portal rtx remix is fantastic too.

 

[mrk]

Alan Wake 2 still uses baked lighting for many areas of the game, doorway light bounce for example is baked in the whole game, even when path tracing is enabled. So by that measure alone Cyberpunk has better RT than AW2.

 

[GhostDog1981]

Alan Wake 2 still uses baked lighting for many areas of the game, doorwal light bounce for example is baked in the whole game, even when path tracing is enabled. SO by that measure alone Cyberpunk has better RT than AW2.

I just hope next gen AMD and Nvidia offerings continue to push the envelope.

 

[Rabtech]

I normally test with and without it on first, if the framerate drop is minimal it stays on permanently. CP is stunning with it on.

 

[KompuKare]

Alan Wake 2 still uses baked lighting for many areas of the game, doorway light bounce for example is baked in the whole game, even when path tracing is enabled. So by that measure alone Cyberpunk has better RT than AW2.

From a developers POV, creating a pure RT game without any raster fallback would be very risky unless it was so basic that it ran even the Xbox S.
Let's say a game ignored consoles and was pure PC. And wasn't some basic thing with simple models and next to no textures.

What would it take to run at acceptable rates at 1080P? Even using upscaling from 720P or so, I suspect pure RT without any raster tricks might need 4070Ti or 4080 just to run at the lowest common resolution.

Every rumour is that Navi 48 is on an older 4NM process and is using ancient GDDR6. They should be able to get this out this year,especially as they already delayed most of the RDNA3 line-up last year.

Node wise, isn't Blackwell meant to stay on "4nm" (i.e. a slightly enhanced 5nm which TSMC let Nvidia call 4NM)?

Intel's Battlemage is likewise rumours to be TSMC 4nm.

So it looks like none of these vendors are willing to consider 3nmm or better for consumer GPUs.

 

[mrk]

From a developers POV, creating a pure RT game without any raster fallback would be very risky unless it was so basic that it ran even the Xbox S.
Let's say a game ignored consoles and was pure PC. And wasn't some basic thing with simple models and next to no textures.

What would it take to run at acceptable rates at 1080P? Even using upscaling from 720P or so, I suspect pure RT without any raster tricks might need 4070Ti or 4080 just to run at the lowest common resolution.

Node wise, isn't Blackwell meant to stay on "4nm" (i.e. a slightly enhanced 5nm which TSMC let Nvidia call 4NM)?

Intel's Battlemage is likewise rumours to be TSMC 4nm.

So it looks like none of these vendors are willing to consider 3nmm or better for consumer GPUs.

Ah my point was that the areas where baked lighting is used are exactly the areas that leverage path tracing amazingly, case in point CDPR did exactly this with Cyberpunk, all doorways use path traced GI and when you open/close a door, the entire room's bounced illumination shifts as the door opens/closes. So we have a real world example of path traced/ray traced GI being used extensively in at least one fully open world game, so there's no reason why AW2 could not have done the same given it's a closed world game with every main area behind a loading screen.

I posted direct comparisons of this in the AW2 thread at launch.

 

[Nexus18]

What a load of tosh. Is it also not AMD's job to sell more cards, increase market share and stop bleeding customers over to AMD? Honestly...

Yup it's funny as hum has been slating amd recently about them not doing good enough with FSR 3.1 etc. and he even acknolwedges that it is amds fault

AMD had me for a long time (and they still do for the cpu) but they lost me for the dgpu space and it's simply because they are not producing a product that I deem to be worthy for my needs, it is up to only amd to address these shortcomings in order to win me back, not nvidia, not intel, not us, only amd, simple as that.

From a developers POV, creating a pure RT game without any raster fallback would be very risky unless it was so basic that it ran even the Xbox S.
Let's say a game ignored consoles and was pure PC. And wasn't some basic thing with simple models and next to no textures.

What would it take to run at acceptable rates at 1080P? Even using upscaling from 720P or so, I suspect pure RT without any raster tricks might need 4070Ti or 4080 just to run at the lowest common resolution.

Node wise, isn't Blackwell meant to stay on "4nm" (i.e. a slightly enhanced 5nm which TSMC let Nvidia call 4NM)?

Intel's Battlemage is likewise rumours to be TSMC 4nm.

So it looks like none of these vendors are willing to consider 3nmm or better for consumer GPUs.

Good thing we have metro ee, spiderman 2 and avatar to showcase what happens here when no raster fallback....

 

[TNA]

Yup it's funny as hum has been slating amd recently about them not doing good enough with FSR 3.1 etc. and he even acknolwedges that it is amds fault

AMD had me for a long time (and they still do for the cpu) but they lost me for the dgpu space and it's simply because they are not producing a product that I deem to be worthy for my needs, it is up to only amd to address these shortcomings in order to win me back, not nvidia, not intel, not us, only amd, simple as that.



Good thing we have metro ee, spiderman 2 and avatar to showcase what happens here when no raster fallback....

Been busy. Just had a look and was about to correct my post as meant bleeding over to Nvidia, but seems there was a clean up

But yeah I agree. Hopefully AMD hopefully start investing some of that money from Ryzen to Radeon. They could do with better RT for sure.

 

[Calin Banc]

From a developers POV, creating a pure RT game without any raster fallback would be very risky unless it was so basic that it ran even the Xbox S.
Let's say a game ignored consoles and was pure PC. And wasn't some basic thing with simple models and next to no textures.

What would it take to run at acceptable rates at 1080P? Even using upscaling from 720P or so, I suspect pure RT without any raster tricks might need 4070Ti or 4080 just to run at the lowest common resolution.

You have Metro Exodus EE with no Raster mode and worked on consoles... shockingly, at 60fps too!

AW2 has problems with backed in lighting as probably it was a solution to get some performance with the "regular" render on weak hardware such as the Xbox Series S... while trying to push other details. Circling back to Metro EE, doesn't suffer from this issue, although it has bigger levels. But... it was the kind of a game designed on the play of light and shadows / darkness, even more so than Alan Wake.

Then is Avatar, again RT only...

 

[Sone]

I like RT but rarely miss it when I turn it off.

 

[JediFragger]

I like RT but rarely miss it when I turn it off.

Most of it is bloody rubbish and nowhere near the hit it gives.

 

[tommybhoy]

Is the built for 'RT only(no rasta fall back)' releases Avatar and SM2, or are there more I'm missing, is AW2 RT only?

Most of it is bloody rubbish and nowhere near the hit it gives.

Exactly, Nv's weaponised it with overdone cost heavy RT/PT, then up the cost next gen-rinse repeat.

The hit isn't worth it, probably more to do with that I don't take it in playing a game, I just don't notice it in gameplay.

PR RT/PT in it's best light on Nv's two tech demos CP/AW2 on a 4090, and everyone under it thinks that's the exact same experience they're seeing on their underpowered/cut down bus/memory starved/choking gpus, talking from experience on my journey from the start on 2070>3070+3080>4070+79XTX-enough was enough.

 

[JediFragger]

Hell, The First Descendant looks fantastic even with all settings to low! A very nice engine indeed

 

[Calin Banc]

Is the built for 'RT only(no rasta fall back)' releases Avatar and SM2, or are there more I'm missing, is AW2 RT only?


Exactly, Nv's weaponised it with overdone cost heavy RT/PT, then up the cost next gen-rinse repeat.

The hit isn't worth it, probably more to do with that I don't take it in playing a game, I just don't notice it in gameplay.

PR RT/PT in it's best light on Nv's two tech demos CP/AW2 on a 4090, and everyone under it thinks that's the exact same experience they're seeing on their underpowered/cut down bus/memory starved/choking gpus, talking from experience on my journey from the start on 2070>3070+3080>4070+79XTX-enough was enough.

What it means "OVERDONE cost heavy RT/PT"?

 

[tommybhoy]

Mate, shouting at opinions won't increase mainstream RT adoption.

Clearly shown by the handful of highly vocal pro RT dudes refusing to pay the full fat RT buy in.*thumbsup