What do you think of the 4070Ti?

[Bill Turnip]

Are you trolling? In order to get 100 fps on average, some games are going to get more, some less. That's what averages are. I also mentioned DLSS FSR in the original post you quoted, so again, what the heck are you talking about? It's fine, you were wrong, get over it.

I mean, if were talking about averages, a 6600 is likely to get over 100fps on average at 4k. Computer games have been around since, what, the 70's? I can get crazy frame rates on Worms, Asteroid and Lemmings.

What games are we talking about for these averages? If we know this, it may be an easier way of determining your performance target, and therefore coming up with the best value card for completing that target.

 

[Calin Banc]

Are you trolling? In order to get 100 fps on average, some games are going to get more, some less. That's what averages are. I also mentioned DLSS FSR in the original post you quoted, so again, what the heck are you talking about? It's fine, you were wrong, get over it.

Check again what you wrote, it says all games maxed, 100'+ before applying dlss or fsr.
RDR2 was an example, you can check for others yourself including RT. Go troll some other place.

 

[Bencher]

I mean, if were talking about averages, a 6600 is likely to get over 100fps on average at 4k. Computer games have been around since, what, the 70's? I can get crazy frame rates on Worms, Asteroid and Lemmings.

What games are we talking about for these averages? If we know this, it may be an easier way of determining your performance target, and therefore coming up with the best value card for completing that target.

You think TPU reviews use games from the 70's?
They used lots of games, fc6, ac valhala, dying light 2, cyberpunk, read dead 2, control, elden ring etc

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

the problem is decades of no investment in new nuclear power and our reliance on gas for power generation which can hit 56% or more even with 10% of our electricity being generated by wind.

some numbers from this morning.



which is good but the problem is its a sunday morning. come mid week we can be drawing 36GW or more electricity when everyones in work, things will change but as hinkly point C has shown the prices wont be cheap as we are over a barrel it seems due to the political game of hoofing problems down the road year after year by ALL party's.

Yeah,that too(to get the votes of environmentalist) but privatising our gas and oil,instead making it a joint venture like Norway did, means we lost a lot of money in revenue and can't dictate pricing or where it can be sent to.

 

[Bill Turnip]

You think TPU reviews use games from the 70's?
They used lots of games, fc6, ac valhala, dying light 2, cyberpunk, read dead 2, control, elden ring etc

Didn't say that, just pointing out what average meant. You need to have the game list to be able to determine the average.

If the games you have listed are what you want 100fps on, this is a starting point. Are you looking for this at 4k?

 

[Purgatory]

Nice that you've set your own personal, subjective benchmark for what luxury is. Maybe all the 1st world and 2nd world countries are living in luxury and need to get to the standard of living of the 3rd world countries in order for companies to make the best profit there is. Sounds fair?

And a 6700xt/3060ti can't give you 100+ fps maxed out at 1440p. Lol. You're trying to sell vegetables to gardners.

This is what annoys me with his argument, a gpu is a luxury goods, tell that to the people that need them for work to pay their bills with. Honestly anyone with the mentality that a gpu is just for gaming and a luxury item needs to go buy a console then and stay out of the argument about gpus.

I buy gpus for work and the luxury item pays my bills and yes i game on them from time to time but 99% of their lives are for work with me and they live a gentle life because I need them to work and remain working as without them I can't pay my bills without these luxury items.

Also computers are not luxury items, like mobile phones, internet access, access to electricity etc etc, they are part of the essentials to modern life now. Yes you don't need a top end gpu but you need some gpu for any screen output or a dedicated gpu because your system doesn't have a cpu with one integrated.

Luxury items ... soon mobile phone/tablet makers will make discrete gpus for their phones or tablets and start charging for gpu upgrades like the pc world after seeing the over pricing scam working on pc users.

 

[humbug]

the thing is amd fangirls will make statements like "amd is not to be blamed for high prices because they are just following nvidia's lead.. nvidia was the first to signal prices when they unveiled the 4080 12g.. amd is good nvidia bad"
then you start associating the brand with the followers .. er trolls

meanwhile it seems intel is collaborating with nvidia on opacity micro maps

VK_EXT_opacity_micromap(3)

i thought people might be interested

So are AMD, i mean 'Stu Smith, AMD' is listed as a contributor right under 'Josh Barczak, Intel'.

Ok, let's stick to nvidia.

The 4070ti is a great product and a great value considering the current market, since not only it is the cheapest new gen card with the best power draw, it also offers features and RT performance that competes with the competitors next generation card that isn't going to be out for at least 2 years.

Complaining about the price of the cheapest current gen card that offers features and performance that you can only get from the competition by time travelling to the future is nuts to me.

This is all a bit extreme don't you think?

 

[Bencher]

This is what annoys me with his argument, a gpu is a luxury goods, tell that to the people that need them for work to pay their bills with. Honestly anyone with the mentality that a gpu is just for gaming and a luxury item needs to go buy a console then and stay out of the argument about gpus.

I buy gpus for work and the luxury item pays my bills and yes i game on them from time to time but 99% of their lives are for work with me and they live a gentle life because I need them to work and remain working as without them I can't pay my bills without these luxury items.

Also computers are not luxury items, like mobile phones, internet access, access to electricity etc etc, they are part of the essentials to modern life now. Yes you don't need a top end gpu but you need some gpu for any screen output or a dedicated gpu because your system doesn't have a cpu with one integrated.

Luxury items ... soon mobile phone/tablet makers will make discrete gpus for their phones or tablets and start charging for gpu upgrades like the pc world after seeing the over pricing scam working on pc users.

If you use your GPU for work prices don't really affect you. Like at all. A 300€ extra expense every 2 years (assumming you need a new gpu every 2 years to accelerate your workflow), while half of that is saved due to taxes is peanuts.

 

[brostradamus]

So are AMD, i mean 'Stu Smith, AMD' is listed as a contributor right under 'Josh Barczak, Intel'.


This is all a bit extreme don't you think?

yeah but the thing is we know that amd isnt using opacity micromaps this generation so was wondering if intel is going the same route for their upcoming release, they are supposed to release something this year
there hasnt been much discussion on new features and not much theorycrafting going on
i think i had earlier posted this in some thread on the same forum but didnt pick up anything after that

edit: some high level details, looks like a significant change to ray tracing acceleration structure

https://registry.khronos.org/vulkan/specs/1.3-extensions/html/vkspec.html#ray-opacity-micromap

 

[humbug]

yeah but the thing is we know that amd isnt using opacity micromaps this generation so was wondering if intel is going the same route for their upcoming release, they are supposed to release something this year

If they are spending time on it then it should stand to reason they are not going to move away from it, AMD may well use them in the future.

Raja Koduri has been demoted within Intel's AXG team, normally i would say this is a good thing as i think the guy is useless, Vaga was bad and ARC is a clone of Vaga. however it turns out that AXG its self is being wound down, not at all surprising as developing competitive gaming GPU's is very expensive and Intel.... frankly are skint.

Doesn't mean Intel will stop making GPU's, they need to be in that business to survive as its increasingly important for data centre, however if Techpowerup like most other tech journalist outlets didn't have so much copium about Intel GPU's they would admit that doesn't and probably shouldn't include gaming cards.

Intel Reorganises its Graphics Chip Division, Raja Koduri Seemingly Demoted

Big things are afoot at Intel's graphics chip division once again, as the company has just broken up its Accelerated Computing Systems and Graphics (AXG) business unit which will result in some big changes. For starters, Raja Koduri has been—what we can only refer to as—demoted, given he's back...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[Purgatory]

If you use your GPU for work prices don't really affect you. Like at all. A 300€ extra expense every 2 years (assumming you need a new gpu every 2 years to accelerate your workflow), while half of that is saved due to taxes is peanuts.

Ok they don't affect me... You really don't live in the real world. The real word pricing does affect me and always has as if one dies I will need to pay the extortionate rates now and no I mean replace with a new 3090 not a 4090 as they have no NVLINK (I need 48GB VRAM and the cuda cores) and no ADA pro card A-series does. Also NVLINK only works with same exact cards as the position of the fingers needs to be the same so I would need to find same brand and model again and I see one place that actually has them in stock...




The price is still same as 2 years ago and I paid more because at time the world was a mess and needed them for work as we were in lockdown and we had to work from home and still working from home some of us as COVID has not gone away as you may be lead to believe and companies are struggling with the electricity costs too, so keeping their staff at home to save and also my work promised me a new pair of gpus to work from home in the lockdown period never happened and I get paid for work done and hours done when working from home. So the luxury item as you put it was needed to pay my bills and we couldn't take workstations home from the office as they are all network linked and have sensitive data on them that can't leave the companies grounds.

So maybe use the brain cells a little more mate, not all of us here are arguing about playing games on these gpus.

 

[welshrat]

Personally won't buy any at current prices but would defo pick 7900xt over the 4070ti. Would ideally pick up a 4080 or 4080ti at around £800 in a year but if that unlikely to happen and will more than likely pick up a 7900xt Aib for hopefully around 600-700. For those that RT matters then great but not really that much between them and I would rather the extra vram. Happy to sit with my rx6800 and see where we are at in 12 months.

 

[Bencher]

Ok they don't affect me... You really don't live in the real world. The real word pricing does affect me and always has as if one dies I will need to pay the extortionate rates now and no I mean replace with a new 3090 not a 4090 as they have no NVLINK (I need 48GB VRAM and the cuda cores) and no ADA pro card A-series does. Also NVLINK only works with same exact cards as the position of the fingers needs to be the same so I would need to find same brand and model again and I see one place that actually has them in stock...




The price is still same as 2 years ago and I paid more because at time the world was a mess and needed them for work as we were in lockdown and we had to work from home and still working from home some of us as COVID has not gone away as you may be lead to believe and companies are struggling with the electricity costs too, so keeping their staff at home to save and also my work promised me a new pair of gpus to work from home in the lockdown period never happened and I get paid for work done and hours done when working from home. So the luxury item as you put it was needed to pay my bills and we couldn't take workstations home from the office as they are all network linked and have sensitive data on them that can't leave the companies grounds.

So maybe use the brain cells a little more mate, not all of us here are arguing about playing games on these gpus.

If your card dies, you rma it, it's still in warranty?

 

[TNA]

so dragging this thread back vaguely on topic, what's everyone's ok price to grab a 4070ti, myself if it got to £700 id say it would be worth a punt when you compared it to the £650 launch of the 3080 founders.

its still high but compared to where we where performance wise two years ago for the same price its not bad.

£599.

 

[TNA]

Next gen should be as follows imo:

£399 5060ti
£499 5070
£599 5070ti
£749 5080
£999 5080ti
£1499 5090

The 5080ti should come 9-12 months after the 5090 for maximum milkage of those who don't mind. Then another 6 after drop in a 5090ti for £1999 for even more milkage.

Win win the above.

 

[Purgatory]

If your card dies, you rma it, it's still in warranty?

When they run out of warranty ?

You are stating the obvious mate, this I know but doesn't fix the issue later down with time and what NVIDIA has done with NVLINK on new generation cards. They have made them more expensive all cards with some sort of regression in features too, the 4090 is not a 3090 or 3090ti replacement for pro users as the 3090's were pro use cards with pro use features like NVLINK. Pay more for less now, yes performance up but VRAM same and a important feature for pro users gone now a feature that is an expensive one to even add to cards and the gpu dies removed now from the physical card and the gpus internal die circuitry.

The 4090 is a 4080/ti compared to last gen, this gen they really pulled a lot of fast ones and sold people on with fake 3x and 4x claims when they were doing their fake benchmarks with oranges and elephants.

Only people falling for it are people not aware what has been done or really in need of a new card so no choice but have to buy what they can afford and right for them.

 

[Darujhistan]

This is what annoys me with his argument, a gpu is a luxury goods, tell that to the people that need them for work to pay their bills with. Honestly anyone with the mentality that a gpu is just for gaming and a luxury item needs to go buy a console then and stay out of the argument about gpus.

I buy gpus for work and the luxury item pays my bills and yes i game on them from time to time but 99% of their lives are for work with me and they live a gentle life because I need them to work and remain working as without them I can't pay my bills without these luxury items.

Also computers are not luxury items, like mobile phones, internet access, access to electricity etc etc, they are part of the essentials to modern life now. Yes you don't need a top end gpu but you need some gpu for any screen output or a dedicated gpu because your system doesn't have a cpu with one integrated.

Luxury items ... soon mobile phone/tablet makers will make discrete gpus for their phones or tablets and start charging for gpu upgrades like the pc world after seeing the over pricing scam working on pc users.

Incredible how many people there are out there who suck up to big business and think all anyone is "entitled" to is not to be starving on the street if they work for a living. Hobby items like a decent PC, console, sports equipment, gym membership, craft and art supplies, yoga sessions etc should not be out the reach of ordinary working people, they are not luxuries, they are the fruits of hard work paying off. People are "entitled" to pursue interests outside of work, and have a reasonable standard of living with which to do so.

But there's always legions of The Army of the Unread, brainwashed corpo suckups, telling people to be grateful to their overlords for not staving to death.

 

[Calin Banc]

When they run out of warranty ?

You are stating the obvious mate, this I know but doesn't fix the issue later down with time and what NVIDIA has done with NVLINK on new generation cards. They have made them more expensive all cards with some sort of regression in features too, the 4090 is not a 3090 or 3090ti replacement for pro users as the 3090's were pro use cards with pro use features like NVLINK. Pay more for less now, yes performance up but VRAM same and a important feature for pro users gone now a feature that is an expensive one to even add to cards and the gpu dies removed now from the physical card and the gpus internal die circuitry.

The 4090 is a 4080/ti compared to last gen, this gen they really pulled a lot of fast ones and sold people on with fake 3x and 4x claims when they were doing their fake benchmarks with oranges and elephants.

Only people falling for it are people not aware what has been done or really in need of a new card so no choice but have to buy what they can afford and right for them.

If you need the vRAM then just to RMA can be problematic as you don't know how fast they'll replace it or try to pull a clever one and return your money instead.
But even waiting to get a new GPU might mean days of no work, no income, nothing.

 

[humbug]

In the end money talks.

Right now they are trying to keep similar revenues they enjoyed during the crypto years.

They figure that less people will buy their GPU's at much higher prices, but the difference in the margins more than off sets the loss in numbers, so they still bring in more money while also selling slightly less.

That is a win win, they are absolutely determined to make that reality, they will take a short term hit if it means bullying us in to accepting this as the new normal for the long term.

The problem with that is the amount of disposable income people actually have is not infinite, it is very finite, its like energy costs, 7 million people in this country are now having to chose between eating or heating, a real indictment on this country, this is not those peoples choice, these people have a finite amount of income, they don't have a money tree, they are forced to work with in the budget they have.

If Nvidia or AMD think people will just pony up the money because after enough attrition they want these products so bad it will break their will they are very much mistaken. Its nothing to do with will.

 

[Purgatory]

Incredible how many people there are out there who suck up to big business and think all anyone is "entitled" to is not to be starving on the street if they work for a living. Hobby items like a decent PC, console, sports equipment, gym membership, craft and art supplies, yoga sessions etc should not be out the reach of ordinary working people, they are not luxuries, they are the fruits of hard work paying off. People are "entitled" to pursue interests outside of work, and have a reasonable standard of living with which to do so.

But there's always legions of The Army of the Unread, brainwashed corpo suckups, telling people to be grateful to their overlords for not staving to death.

Yes it's really weird how some are defending something they don't even own and saying it's a luxury item, no it's not and neither is owning any computer parts now, they are essentials for the modern life we live.

I honestly think this is just a wind up now by some doing it as I will tell you right now when I updated my system in 2020 I was not saying thank you nvidia or thank you msi or amd for the silly prices I had to pay for the new build... It reminded me what a rip off it all has become and even made building the system annoying knowing every part I was picking up cost so much. I was not thanking any of them then and cursing the whole market and no it was not buyers remorse as I needed the system and why it was purchased it was feeling like I had been robbed by some of the companies I purchased the parts from.

Anyways all who want to defend this well enjoy the hobby getting more expensive or time to find a new job if you rely on it and not willing to pay the prices anymore. Honestly I'm sick of it and was around the 980ti time when that came out and why I waited such a long time before an update too and lockdown well said time to update as you will not be able to work now as working from home and reason for not updating is because we have workstations at work that did what I needed and not at home.

Sorry I know I sound like i'm ranting but I have been into computers since they were using 1K of ram.. do the maths how old I am. Also I have a feeling some arguing also are an age group younger and brainwashed by these companies and can't relate to why some of us older users are very unhappy about how the industry is going.