Why are you not vegan....

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Richie said:
And that film is about American meat production so is irrelevant to the UK animal standards.

The OP used the RSPCA link earlier to try and push welfare issues but failed to state it was the RSPCA Australia site.

Other countries have crap animal welfare standards, we know this and we can do nothing more than ensure we don't buy imported meat from those countries. It's disingenuous to use foreign practices to further your point.

Posters should be genuine and use examples of sanctioned UK practices.
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Yea thats was my bad I was in a rush this morning. but then comparing the practices, they're pretty much the same anyway, except we don't beat baby male cows to death or shoot them on the farm anymore, we send them down the road to a slaughterhouse instead. https://www.theguardian.com/comment...scary-public-farming-calves-pens-alternatives

Do you think chopping of a pigs tail, "trimming" its teeth, then have it live inside for 5months then being gassed to death is "humane"? or "high welfare"?

Undercover footage of UK farming - https://www.landofhopeandglory.org/
 
413x said:
When you have an animal it becomes quite hard to actually eat that animal. Who would eat a dog in the UK? I know some of you would! :D

This is Claudia. Shes my really dog like hen. And she really does love a to be held.

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What a beaut, we're gonna rescue some chickens one day, people always give them funny old school names.
 
Richie said:
Cows-in-calf are not slaughtered so this is a pile of nonsense unless for very rare humane reasons like severe injury and it would be cruel to keep them alive and suffering. Do you agree this would be acceptable?

Your source is the RSPCA in AUSTRALIA. Tell me how that relates to the UK and how our practices are the same?
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Yea soz I was in a rush this morning didn't check it properly, but then are the standard practices really that much different?

Ive seen reports from other countries that do slaughter pregnant cows, but if we don't that's a minor plus I guess.
 
Pottsey said:
Not only that but plants are living things. By eating plants one is killing. I have no problem with people being Vegetarian or Vegan but they hold zero morale high ground as they are killing just as much if not more then the meat eaters. It always amazes me how many vegetarians don't realize what they are eating was alive and they are killing a living thing. Not all of them but a lot of them don't stop to think what they are eating was alive until they kill it.
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Youre joking right? Do you think its the same to cut into a carrot and cutting a lambs foot off?

Do plants have a brain or central nervous system, how much can they actually suffer?
 
Johno please? said:
Yea thats was my bad I was in a rush this morning. but then comparing the practices, they're pretty much the same anyway, except we don't beat baby male cows to death or shoot them on the farm anymore, we send them down the road to a slaughterhouse instead. https://www.theguardian.com/comment...scary-public-farming-calves-pens-alternatives

Do you think chopping of a pigs tail, "trimming" its teeth, then have it live inside for 5months then being gassed to death is "humane"? or "high welfare"?

Undercover footage of UK farming - https://www.landofhopeandglory.org/
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I’d stop wasting your time with the links, I doubt anyones actually reading them. I’m certainly not.
 
Johno please? said:
What a beaut, we're gonna rescue some chickens one day, people always give them funny old school names.
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She's a good hen. She's actually named from Claudia from dragon prince TV show.

She knows her name. She will come sit on my lap to be held. She follows me around the garden and not just for food.

Other day she was tapping on the sliding glass living room door as I'd accidentally left thier coop door closed so they couldn't get in.

Chickens are particularly smart as birds go. Not covid level obviously. But they know faces and can learn thier name etc.
 
Johno please? said:
Yea thats was my bad I was in a rush this morning. but then comparing the practices, they're pretty much the same anyway, except we don't beat baby male cows to death or shoot them on the farm anymore, we send them down the road to a slaughterhouse instead. https://www.theguardian.com/comment...scary-public-farming-calves-pens-alternatives
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Hardly an unbiased story. It's full of emotionally charged language to draw outrage from people who have no actual lived experiences of farming.

From the article:

Welfare legislation says that calves should only be held in solitary pens until they are eight weeks old, but Animal Equality claims that the battery calves it photographed at Grange Dairy in Dorset are up to six months old – too large for their hutches– and say that some have grazes on their backs. But trading standard officers say there is no evidence of any breach of animal welfare requirements
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So we have Animal Equality who have an agenda claiming a breach and we have officials from Trading Standards rebutting this claim. Hardly damning

A mother cow only produces milk when she gets pregnant. So, starting from the age of 15 months, she will usually be artificially inseminated. Farmers mechanically draw semen from a bull, and then force the female cow into a narrow trap, known as a “cattle crush”, where they will brutally impregnate her.


When she gives birth, her calf will typically be removed within 36 hours, so the farmers can steal and sell you the milk that is meant for her baby.
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Emotionally charged language and, the fact the writer has to use "female cow" (all cows are female) shows lack of knowledge.

Also using the "her baby" is used to draw the reader into humanising the calf by drawing on maternal and paternal instincts of the reader.

A crush is used as it prevents injury for both the animal and the workers.

Following that callous separation, the mother will bellow and scream for days, wondering where her baby is. The answer depends on the gender of the calf. If male, he will probably either be shot and tossed into a bin, or sold to be raised for veal
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Crap. I have already addressed this advising what happens to bull calves. They are certainly not shot and put in the bin. They exist the same as heifer (female) calves and then sold into beef herds to be raised for beef.

For at least six months of the year, she will often be confined inside dark sheds
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Yes, they are over-wintered in sheds as the fields are in no condition to support them over Winter in UK due to the weather. Would they have them standing in the freezing conditions in deep mud all day?

The sheds have raised bays usually with straw or sawdust to lie on. A field is wet and muddy over Winter.

I will stop here otherwise this post could be much much longer as the Guardian article can be ripped to shreds by anyone who even has the slightest of knowledge, something the writer does not.

You should do yourself a favour and go visit an animal operation (beef, sheep, dairy etc) and get some actual first hand experience rather than reading heavily biased articles where the writer is either lazy, has an agenda or both.

It may benefit others here too.


Oh, TLDR - linked Guardian article is full of crap.
 
Richie said:
Hardly an unbiased story. It's full of emotionally charged language to draw outrage from people who have no actual lived experiences of farming.

From the article:



So we have Animal Equality who have an agenda claiming a breach and we have officials from Trading Standards rebutting this claim. Hardly damning



Emotionally charged language and, the fact the writer has to use "female cow" (all cows are female) shows lack of knowledge.

Also using the "her baby" is used to draw the reader into humanising the calf by drawing on maternal and paternal instincts of the reader.

A crush is used as it prevents injury for both the animal and the workers.



Crap. I have already addressed this advising what happens to bull calves. They are certainly not shot and put in the bin. They exist the same as heifer (female) calves and then sold into beef herds to be raised for beef.



Yes, they are over-wintered in sheds as the fields are in no condition to support them over Winter in UK due to the weather. Would they have them standing in the freezing conditions in deep mud all day?

The sheds have raised bays usually with straw or sawdust to lie on. A field is wet and muddy over Winter.

I will stop here otherwise this post could be much much longer as the Guardian article can be ripped to shreds by anyone who even has the slightest of knowledge, something the writer does not.

You should do yourself a favour and go visit an animal operation (beef, sheep, dairy etc) and get some actual first hand experience rather than reading heavily biased articles where the writer is either lazy, has an agenda or both.

It may benefit others here too.


Oh, TLDR - linked Guardian article is full of crap.
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Are you trying to say dairy calves are used for meat? Dairy bulls aren't generally used for meat. They are genetically geared differently. And thus usually just despatched.
I'm not sure how many go for beef. But I know it isn't many.

Same reason layer males (chickens) are macerated. They aren't used for meat birds.
 
Johno please? said:
Do you think chopping of a pigs tail, "trimming" its teeth, then have it live inside for 5months then being gassed to death is "humane"? or "high welfare"?

Undercover footage of UK farming - https://www.landofhopeandglory.org/
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Apologies, I missed this bit.

I don't know how pig units are run or what the sanctioned welfare standards are so, for now, I cannot comment however I would urge you to look into it a bit more as it's clear your knowledge on the entire farming subject appears to come from unreliable and heavily biased sources.

Johno please? said:
Yea soz I was in a rush this morning didn't check it properly, but then are the standard practices really that much different?

Ive seen reports from other countries that do slaughter pregnant cows, but if we don't that's a minor plus I guess.
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The standard practices in the UK are very different from what you have advised.

I'm not saying there are no bad operations out there with farmers who may not follow every guideline but if we have to stop things due to a few "bag apples" we'd have to sack the entire MET.

These farmers should be investigated and punished but let's not paint all farmers as animal abusers.
 
something daft already!! said:
If we stop eating meat, imagine all those animals which will now not exist and have no chance of life at all. Is that even more cruel, at least the current way they have some life. Who are we to judge if the life is worthy?
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I'm a meat eater but this argument is so stupid and I keep hearing it. Seriously come up with something better.
 
My better half is vegan, but I couldn't do without a few of my regular non-vegan treats (eg. Scotch eggs, cheese, chicken, milk, tinned mackeral).
 
413x said:
Are you trying to say dairy calves are used for meat? Dairy bulls aren't generally used for meat. They are genetically geared differently. And thus usually just despatched.
I'm not sure how many go for beef. But I know it isn't many.
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www.fwi.co.uk

How finishing dairy bull calves is profiting an arable farm - Farmers Weekly

Buying “waste” dairy bull calves and finishing them on low-cost feed and crop waste is helping to keep feed costs low while improving arable ground. Each
www.fwi.co.uk www.fwi.co.uk

Edit: I'm hoping no one twists the word "waste" with actual garbage thrown away. Bull calves are "waste" for a dairy herd but that doesn't mean they are disposed off like rubbish as you'll see in the article
 
Richie said:
www.fwi.co.uk

How finishing dairy bull calves is profiting an arable farm - Farmers Weekly

Buying “waste” dairy bull calves and finishing them on low-cost feed and crop waste is helping to keep feed costs low while improving arable ground. Each
www.fwi.co.uk www.fwi.co.uk

Edit: I'm hoping no one twists the word "waste" with actual garbage thrown away. Bull calves are "waste" for a dairy herd but that doesn't mean they are disposed off like rubbish as you'll see in the article
Click to expand...

I Used to work with dairy farmers and I know a lot were despatched. But it was a few years ago. Been reading this is much reduced now. I'll ask my dairy work friend (auditing farms) how things are now.
Looks like been quite a bit of change when in the last couple of years

Regardless. I'll is much much better than much of the world. That's a given. You don't have to look far too see standards just go out the window.
 
I was a vegetarian in my late teens. I kept getting colds and feeling unwell. This was despite taking extra vitamins and minerals. After 9 months or so, I gradually ate meat into my diet. So started with a ham sandwich and worked up. With 3 weeks of having meat in my diet, I felt much better.

I do have meat free days - sometimes it works out that way.
 
413x said:
I Used to work with dairy farmers and I know a lot were despatched. But it was a few years ago. Been reading this is much reduced now. I'll ask my dairy work friend (auditing farms) how things are now.
Looks like been quite a bit of change when in the last couple of years

Regardless. I'll is much much better than much of the world. That's a given. You don't have to look far too see standards just go out the window.
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Definitely which is why people should be responsible and, if they do buy meat, buy British meat wherever possible.
 
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