Why are you not vegan....

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Soldato
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There's a reason though that there wasn't vegan options back in the day, veganism makes zero sense. It's a lifestyle that is not sustainable and is not healthy by itself. Any diet that requires supplementation is not healthy by its definition.

Why do vegans initially see health improvements, because they give up a lot more than just meat. The reduction of heavily processed foods is going to have a huge benefit to people's health. Yet as a general rule they blame the meat.

Once people see the long term effects of veganism which may take decades, just like smoking it will stop being recommended for health.

The many studies done on a plant based diet would disagree with you, do you think if you keep saying its "unhealthy and not sustainable" that its going to become true or something?

So all the vegans that have been on a plant based diet for decades are some sort of living miracles then? Out of everyone posting here, you talk the most crap xD

Maybe primarily city folk will never understand that, but that's the way it is and has been for millennia. The alternative is cattle, sheep, chickens, goats and so on going extinct, as if nobody is farming them then nobody is protecting them from foxes, dogs and diseases such as TB.

We kill badgers because they threaten the money involved in farming, and don't forget these animals only exist because weve bred them this way.

Would you rather your tail chopped off, teeth "trimmed" then live inside for 4months never seeing grass only to be gassed to death? Or just not exist?

Second quote Veganism is an ideology correct it has nothing to do with human health but the whole protecting animals from abuse/killer arguments doesn't work now people will ask why it's simple a vegan being alive is causing harm to animals the only way to help them is for you to die.

Now I know people will say this is extreme but it's not how can you live the vegan way without insects or animals you can't take a look at how food is produced and this is when you look into other areas not nutrition.

Third quote this straight away shows you know 0 on the subject of nutrition using calories as an argument maybe you should learn what a "calorie" is before putting out a claim like this.

Fourth quote If you are eating a correct diet why would you need to supplement? If millions of people drink own urine it's fine as well is it? this argument makes 0 sense and people take all these because they have been tricked to do so.

Fifth quote answered already and already countered it another one you are incorrect on.

I would like to point out I do have a qualification in nutrition and it is meaningless also I have family members who run a farm.

Closing point the pictures you posted are useless for a start the first one is the person known as Vegan Gains (Richard Burgess) who you can be looked up easily and see he has health issues plus is taking juice.

That same guy has claimed to know science like yourself yet can't even understand basics also people who are trained in the field have called him out many times the same with all you vegans yet you run away.

I'm well aware of who he is and yes hes a bit of a loon. I posted studies from legit sources to counter claims that living on a plant based diet is "unhealthy" that's all.

Because B12 comes from bacteria in the ground or unsanitized water which are consumed by the animals. Also many meat eaters also need B12 supplements, there was a guy talking about it in this very thread. Anyone who eats cereals will also be supplementing B12. https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB12-HealthProfessional/

I posted the pictures of normal looking people on plant based diets because Vidar posted extremely thin people claiming that's vegans will end up like. When in fact they're just people who are not eating enough food.

And finally, yea we all cause harm by just existing, its about causing the least harm we can and thats why I went vegan.
 
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Soldato
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Would you rather your tail chopped off, teeth "trimmed" then live inside for 4months never seeing grass only to be gassed to death? Or just not exist?
If you're talking about pigs then this is very confusing, because a 5 minute drive from me I can see fields full of pigs (well not full because that would also be weird in a not good way, but pigs in fields nonetheless)

But in regards to slaughter, I have no issues with it, have done it myself and think that fresh meat is much tastier than supermarket rubbish
 
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The many studies done on a plant based diet would disagree with you, do you think if you keep saying its "unhealthy and not sustainable" that its going to become true or something?

So all the vegans that have been on a plant based diet for decades are some sort of living miracles then? Out of everyone posting here, you talk the most crap xD



We kill badgers because they threaten the money involved in farming, and don't forget these animals only exist because weve bred them this way.

Would you rather your tail chopped off, teeth "trimmed" then live inside for 4months never seeing grass only to be gassed to death? Or just not exist?



I'm well aware of who he is and yes hes a bit of a loon. I posted studies from legit sources to counter claims that living on a plant based diet is "unhealthy" that's all.

Because B12 comes from bacteria in the ground or unsanitized water which are consumed by the animals. Also many meat eaters also need B12 supplements, there was a guy talking about it in this very thread. Anyone who eats cereals will also be supplementing B12. https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB12-HealthProfessional/

I posted the pictures of normal looking people on plant based diets because Vidar posted extremely thin people claiming that's vegans will end up like. When in fact they're just people who are not eating enough food.

And finally, yea we all cause harm by just existing, its about causing the least harm we can and thats why I went vegan.

Incorrect there is not one single valid study which shows as you claim and you can keep repeating the words over and over again this wont change.

I noticed when it comes to Vegans they always select the extreme cases not how it really is and have you ever even visited or worked on a farm I already know the answer nope.

Mass factory farming I don't agree with by the way this is a point I would agree with.

None of your studies are legit.

People that consume only animals do not require any supplements again showing your lack of knowledge in the area.

Cereals are not required in the human diet and do you even understand why they are fortified with vitamins do the research.

Not sure what the point of that link was and it has a fair bit of misinformation in it RDA are made up they are not science based yet that place claims otherwise citing FDA yes they are a creditable source (not)

The pictures are waste of time you don't know these people and have not followed them around for years they claimed to be say vegan only and for every one person who looks healthy others could pull up 100's of unhealthy ones.

Being a vegan does not cause less harm FACT coming from a person understands farming has family running a farm the whole family can live of 3 animals per year one of your crop fields kills millions of insects and other pest control required.

I am not even going to get into the damage it does to environment etc.

You are in a fantasy land if you really cared about animals you either do not continue to live or you have your own farm (I bet you do not even grow any of your own food)
 
Soldato
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I have an interesting question regarding being vegetarian.
What would you do if it was discovered by science that plants were somewhat sentient and communicated with each other via chemicals and electrical signal etc.

We think of plants as some edible matter with no consequence, but they are alive, they are organisms.

If a plant was aware of itself and its environment what eventual realisation would happen before you starved?
 
Soldato
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I have an interesting question regarding being vegetarian.
What would you do if it was discovered by science that plants were somewhat sentient and communicated with each other via chemicals and electrical signal etc.
Not sentient as such, but there is evidence that trees can communicate between themselves through their roots when one of them comes under attack (from caterpillars and such), and as a result others in the same area can increase their chemical defence in response to that specific threat before even experiencing it.
 
Soldato
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I’m no vegan but I have stopped eating **** meat. Yeah buy the meat I do eat from a local farm shop. Yeah it’s ****ing expensive. But I eat less of it and it’s really good.

I’m still buying fish from the supermarket but non meat “mince” is great. I’ve been on that for years.
 
Caporegime
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Incorrect there is not one single valid study which shows as you claim and you can keep repeating the words over and over again this wont change.

I noticed when it comes to Vegans they always select the extreme cases not how it really is and have you ever even visited or worked on a farm I already know the answer nope.

Mass factory farming I don't agree with by the way this is a point I would agree with.

None of your studies are legit.

People that consume only animals do not require any supplements again showing your lack of knowledge in the area.

Cereals are not required in the human diet and do you even understand why they are fortified with vitamins do the research.

Not sure what the point of that link was and it has a fair bit of misinformation in it RDA are made up they are not science based yet that place claims otherwise citing FDA yes they are a creditable source (not)

The pictures are waste of time you don't know these people and have not followed them around for years they claimed to be say vegan only and for every one person who looks healthy others could pull up 100's of unhealthy ones.

Being a vegan does not cause less harm FACT coming from a person understands farming has family running a farm the whole family can live of 3 animals per year one of your crop fields kills millions of insects and other pest control required.

I am not even going to get into the damage it does to environment etc.

You are in a fantasy land if you really cared about animals you either do not continue to live or you have your own farm (I bet you do not even grow any of your own food)
You can't deny being vegan causes less harm than eating meat.

Especially so in the west/intensive farming or the conditions in the far East (grim)

This is just not true.

Energy loss up the food chain is massive.
The amount of energy required to make 1 joule of meat vs 1 joule from a plant based diet is completely different.

Only in niche environments where crops do not grow but you can eat a grazing animal will it tilt the other way.

But if your reasons for going vegan are 'suffering' you need to quantify suffering.
This is a question in itself. With differing views.
For example is suffering/organism more important than sum suffering? Most people (my self included) would say..

"I'd rather kill 1000 insects than 1 pig"
Because a pig is a higher organism and thus suffering is worse.

To pull up the argument of 'eating plants kills countless insects' is a weak one
 
Soldato
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this is an 'I could google this' question...I might, but why do Pescitarians get some form of pass? because they're not bred for that purpose and just snatched from their natural habitat, volume??
 
Soldato
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The many studies done on a plant based diet would disagree with you, do you think if you keep saying its "unhealthy and not sustainable" that its going to become true or something?

So all the vegans that have been on a plant based diet for decades are some sort of living miracles then? Out of everyone posting here, you talk the most crap xD

And yet again a soy boy vegan zealot ignores the points made by others and blindly follows their dogma. I know of plenty flat earthers and anti vaxers who do the same. There's just no convincing you people until your health starts failing.

Fact 1, there has been no truly scientific study on any diet long term because they're physically impossible to do. It would essentially require multiple exact clones, or identical siblings at the very least kept in a clinical setting for their entire lives.

Fact 2, Any diet that requires supplementation is by its very definition unhealthy and unsustainable. It really is that simple.

Fact 3, Arable Farming (growing of plants incase you don't know) causes vastly more pollution and direct damage to the environment through the use of chemicals and pesticides.

Fact 4, Arable farming results in the deaths of countless small mamals, birds and insects through the use of pesticides and chemicals. Not to mention the destruction of natural habitats. Speak to a farmer and ask about the millions of animals blood and guts they're cleaning out of their machines and off your precious plant food every year? Do they not count in your vegan utopia?

Fact 5, If meat was banned all live stock would be exterminated en masse. Do you really think farmers would go bankrupt to keep Daisy the cow and Trotters the pig alive?

Fact 6, Genetically, chromosomally speaking humans should be living approximately 120 years, but we don't. Historical evidence suggests other societies going as far back as the time of Herodotus to modern day innuits and Masai living the traditional life style are living far longer and far healthier lives on a meat based diet. When ruling out other factors.

The point is I'm sure you do feel much healthier than you did when eating the standard western diet, good for you. I'm sure even you can agree with me that heavily processed foods are deeply unhealthy. If not, have you ever bothered to look at how vegetable oil and margarine are made? There's a reason why that stuff was deemed toxic waste and used in engines before the creation of synthetic oils before the American Crisco company decided to make people cook with it.

But let's be honest, if your precious supplements and hyper processed fake food got taken away do you honestly believe you could get everything you need from a vegan diet? Do you not find it utterly horrifying the amount of processing that goes into getting "milk" from oats etc? I can almost guarantee they're washed with bleech and or solvents. Though you won't find those on the list of ingredients.

Honestly I can understand that people don't want to see animals needlessly suffer and be mistreated. You'd have to be a psychopath not to care about that. But there's a vast difference between professional slaughtering and abusive practices like halal. You also cannot argue with human physiology and botanical science. We as a species are incredibly lucky that we can be omnivore, but it's my opinion and the opinion of an increasing amount of health professionals and scientists across the globe that as a species we should only be eating such things to stave off starvation.

But honestly, you do you if it makes you happy. I'm not going to waste another moment on you. All I ask though is when your health does eventually start to fail that you actually look into Carnivore or even Keto. I promise you now if you think you feel good now you'll feel a damn site better eating meat.
 
Caporegime
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You guys do realise how much arable farming is required to feed the animals being killed for meat?

Soy and corn are used in vast quantities for animal feed

Being vegan means you gain efficiency here.

You don't bypass 'arable farmimg' by eating meat.
 
Soldato
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Fact 3, Arable Farming (growing of plants incase you don't know) causes vastly more pollution and direct damage to the environment through the use of chemicals and pesticides.

Fact 4, Arable farming results in the deaths of countless small mamals, birds and insects through the use of pesticides and chemicals. Not to mention the destruction of natural habitats. Speak to a farmer and ask about the millions of animals blood and guts they're cleaning out of their machines and off your precious plant food every year? Do they not count in your vegan utopia?
You do realise this applies to the meat industry as well, an industry where 77% of agricultural land is dedicated to it, so they're not really good points to use for an argument of why you shouldn't be veggie/vegan

even Keto.
What horrible advice to give
 
Soldato
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How many of us have been to a supermarket or butchers doing a Homer Simpson drool looking at steaks?

How many have drooled over a bag of lentils?!

well i left this thread but i think its important to say that personally the look and smell of raw meat (dead animal) turns my stomach ,
as said in my earlier post team meat on here is showing massive cognitive dissonance with ridiculously flawed arguments and the" look at me i eat lots of meat and have zero empathy "brigade.
 
Soldato
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You can't deny being vegan causes less harm than eating meat.

Especially so in the west/intensive farming or the conditions in the far East (grim)

This is just not true.

Energy loss up the food chain is massive.
The amount of energy required to make 1 joule of meat vs 1 joule from a plant based diet is completely different.

Only in niche environments where crops do not grow but you can eat a grazing animal will it tilt the other way.

But if your reasons for going vegan are 'suffering' you need to quantify suffering.
This is a question in itself. With differing views.
For example is suffering/organism more important than sum suffering? Most people (my self included) would say..

"I'd rather kill 1000 insects than 1 pig"
Because a pig is a higher organism and thus suffering is worse.

To pull up the argument of 'eating plants kills countless insects' is a weak one
Yes we can deny that as per the study's and articles I posted early. Not only is the methane from the largest vegan/vegetarian industry massively more harmful then the c02 from the meat industry. As per the article I shared the the amount of energy required to make a weeks worth of food from meat vs replacing that weeks worth of food from a plant based diet is completely different as in plant based was worse for the planet when scaled up to feed millions.

I am not convinced the pigs really suffer when at a decent farm as they spend 99.9% of the life without suffering and no life is 100% without suffering as that's part of life. We need to keep suffering at minimum but eliminating it it is not realistic.

Insets are more important to the planet then the pig. If we are talking 1 or 2 insets against a pig sure pick the insects to kill but there gets to a point in numbers where enough insects deaths matter more. Not that I am sure this is the best way to pick which diet one should live by.
 
Soldato
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You do realise this applies to the meat industry as well, an industry where 77% of agricultural land is dedicated to it, so they're not really good points to use for an argument of why you shouldn't be veggie/vegan


What horrible advice to give

So your argument is "become veggie because it's just as damaging as the meat industry", not a great selling point. What are you going to eat once the pesticides have killed all the pollinators?
 
Soldato
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"I'd rather kill 1000 insects than 1 pig"
Because a pig is a higher organism and thus suffering is worse
It's not a thousand, it's millions. You do realise that insects pollinate plants right? So if you wipe out the insects, which we are in serious danger of doing, you still end up with nothing to eat as the plants you want to eat don't get pollinated.
We basically only still have insects BECAUSE large tracts of land are NOT being used for vegetable farming. If it's all turned over to vegan food, more pesticides will be used and less land will be left for insects to live in.

It also seems very arbitrary to say it's fine to kill one living thing but not another. If we carry on just killing everything then the human race is still going to end up extinct, but at least vegans will be wiped out "knowing" they were "right". :/

At least in this country we encourage farmers to plant wild flowers to encourage insects, but at the same time we are ending subsidies, so farming will cease being profitable and all of our food will be imported (using tankers, trains, trucks etc.) - that sounds good for the environment!
 
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Caporegime
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It's not a thousand, it's millions. You do realise that insects pollinate plants right? So if you wipe out the insects, which we are in serious danger of doing, you still end up with nothing to eat as the plants you want to eat don't get pollinated.
We basically only still have insects BECAUSE large tracts of land are NOT being used for vegetable farming. If it's all turned over to vegan food, more pesticides will be used and less land will be left for insects to live in.

It also seems very arbitrary to say it's fine to kill one living thing but not another. If we carry on just killing everything then the human race is still going to end up extinct, but at least vegans will be wiped out "knowing" they were "right". :/

We aren't going out harvesting insects. They'd be bred and contained in the equivalent of farms.
Of course I know how insects work in nature.

I'm not sure why it is repeated over and over that a vegan diet consumes land but animal Farming does not.
Animals need the same land for the feed they consume.

It isn't arbitrary. Its obvious we have to quantify value to different organisms. Our whole. Society values humans more than animals. Mammals more than insects. Insects more than bacteria.
And I'm not saying insects are less important. We are talking suffering here.
 
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