Why are you not vegan....

[Efour]

Insects have rights too

 

[andybird123]

And I'm not saying insects are less important. We are talking suffering here.

I don't care when I kill a single fly because it's annoying me at night because despite chasing it around the room for 20 minutes it still refuses to see the open window I'm shooting it towards. I also don't feel remorse when I kill an animal for food, or eat something that someone else has killed.

I don't anthropomorphise a potato, nor a pig, cow, chicken, it's all food.

All living things "suffer", even plants have distress signals they use to communicate with itself and other nearby plants. Most farm animals (at least in the UK) live fairly amenable lives, and then they get killed, even if we left them to roam wild they would still end up dying, arguably in far more suffering over a longer period of time, I'd rather go quickly than have it drag on for days or months .

It is just completely arbitrary that you've chosen to anthropomorphise a pig or cow, but not other biological things.

Insects are more vital to our survival than animals, but you are placing animals (that would actually cease to exist if we didn't rear them for food) over insects, it's bizarre. It's completely illogical.
You're even suggesting we enslave the insects we need for food production and wipe out all the rest, have you even listened to yourself, you sound completely unhinged.

 

[413x]

I don't care when I kill a single fly because it's annoying me at night because despite chasing it around the room for 20 minutes it still refuses to see the open window I'm shooting it towards. I also don't feel remorse when I kill an animal for food, or eat something that someone else has killed.

I don't anthropomorphise a potato, nor a pig, cow, chicken, it's all food.

All living things "suffer", even plants have distress signals they use to communicate with itself and other nearby plants. Most farm animals (at least in the UK) live fairly amenable lives, and then they get killed, even if we left them to roam wild they would still end up dying, arguably in far more suffering over a longer period of time, I'd rather go quickly than have it drag on for days or months .

It is just completely arbitrary that you've chosen to anthropomorphise a pig or cow, but not other biological things.

Insects are more vital to our survival than animals, but you are placing animals (that would actually cease to exist if we didn't rear them for food) over insects, it's bizarre. It's completely illogical.
You're even suggesting we enslave the insects we need for food production and wipe out all the rest, have you even listened to yourself, you sound completely unhinged.

It really isn't.
Are you saying you value all life Equally?
And if you had to kill a pig or a grasshopper you'd basically toss a coin?

If you're saying all life is equal you are in the vast minority and to be honest I don't believe you. I'd say you're the unhinged one.

"enslave all the insects". Has anyone implied this?
You're anthropomorphising right there.

 

[andybird123]

They'd be bred and contained in the equivalent of farms.

^

I'd kill both and eat them both.
I'd also advocate less humans would be better for the planet, because it's a simple fact that the explosion of the human race is both unsustainable and a massive contributor to the environmental problems we are facing - that's not unhinged it's an actual fact.
Humans are not essential to the survival of the Earth's ecosystem, I'd actually place humans life as being lower in importance than a lot of animals/insects

"Enslaving" was hyperbole, you've happily missed the point that your solution is to wipe out most insects and just keep the ones that are useful for pollinating the plants we want to eat - this is so deeply flawed as a concept it's not even funny.
If you are representative of vegans then I already know that the human race is a lost cause.

 

[hood1971]

Then explain why Japan, with a population of 120mil, double of ours, 90%+ meat eaters, have the world's highest average life expectancy?

Their red meat consumption is much lower than most European countries and almost a third of US consumption.

 

[andybird123]

Their red meat consumption is much lower than most European countries and almost a third of US consumption.

Yes, and most of that red meat is processed, but its processed food problem, not a "meat is unhealthy", processed vegan food is just as bad for your health, so vegan food isn't inherently more healthy than meat

 

[Raymond Lin]

Their red meat consumption is much lower than most European countries and almost a third of US consumption.

Then that's just a mark against red meat. It's not a tick for veganism.

Not to mention the US eat far more than just red meat, there is also the whole processed meat diet. There are the larger portions, the sugars etc. Go check out a vending machine in Japan, you will see mostly tea and coffee on sale, perhaps 1 out of 20 are actual sugar pop.

There are so many more factors also involved, but the largest statistic is that the Japanese eats meat over 90% in their population and they have the longest life expectancy. Again, this fact is not disputed and cannot be disputed. They do eat meat and they live the longest. Just logic will tell you that it must other than eating meat which causes Americans die sooner. Like what kind of meat, quantity, lifestyle choices, smoking and drinking percentage, sugar, salt etc.

 

[moon man]

It's like when meat eaters are up in arms about dogs being lunch in some countries,hypocritical when a pig or cow has the same or more awareness of fear and pain ,at least we are universal in our beliefs that no animal should be killed

 

[andybird123]

It's like when meat eaters are up in arms about dogs being lunch in some countries,hypocritical when a pig or cow has the same or more awareness of fear and pain ,at least we are universal in our beliefs that no animal should be killed

I've eaten dog ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
and horse

 

[Raymond Lin]

It's like when meat eaters are up in arms about dogs being lunch in some countries,hypocritical when a pig or cow has the same or more awareness of fear and pain ,at least we are universal in our beliefs that no animal should be killed

You can't say that unless you are 100% guarantee that you have ZERO animal products in your house like leather belts, shoes, wallets.......are you up in arms against yourself in the mirror?

 

[hood1971]

Then that's just a mark against red meat. It's not a tick for veganism.

Not to mention the US eat far more than just red meat, there is also the whole processed meat diet. There are the larger portions, the sugars etc. Go check out a vending machine in Japan, you will see mostly tea and coffee on sale, perhaps 1 out of 20 are actual sugar pop.

There are so many more factors also involved, but the largest statistic is that the Japanese eats meat over 90% in their population and they have the longest life expectancy. Again, this fact is not disputed and cannot be disputed. They do eat meat and they live the longest. Just logic will tell you that it must other than eating meat which causes Americans die sooner.

There has been multiple studies into red/processed meat consumption and heart disease and other conditions. Japan consumes around half the red meat compared to most European countries and the US. Yes they eat meat, but in smaller quantities than rest of world. Your statement was simply that Japan eats meat so why do they live so long, but there are many factors such as less meat, better healthcare, great social care for elderly, continuing social engagement of older people within their family and society at large. The list is much larger - life expectancy is a complex equation, not just do they ever eat meat.

 

[Raymond Lin]

There has been multiple studies into red/processed meat consumption and heart disease and other conditions. Japan consumes around half the red meat compared to most European countries and the US. Yes the eat meat, but in smaller quantities than rest of world. Your statement was simply that Japan eats meat why do they live so long, but there are many factors such as less meat, better healthcare, great social care for elderly, continuing social engagement of older people within their family and society at large. The list is much larger - life expectancy is a complex equation, not just do they ever eat meat.

It's not just RED meat, nor is vegan the solution to make people live longer.

The FACT and this is a FACT! is that Japanese do eat meat and they live the longest and as you and I both said, there are more factors involved other than meat...which means if there are other factors other than just meat then why is veganism being pushed as the EXCUSE that you will live longer? When you stated there are OTHER factors?

Surely it's OTHER factors, rather than just meat which makes people don't live as long? Then why do people blame meat as the reason for shorter life expectancy?

 

[moon man]

You can't say that unless you are 100% guarantee that you have ZERO animal products in your house like leather belts, shoes, wallets.......are you up in arms against yourself in the mirror?

Definitely can't say that ,all I can say is that I minimise my impact where I can now .
I also feel pretty bad for the meat (animals) I did consume before I switched

 

[andybird123]

There has been multiple studies into red/processed meat consumption and heart disease and other conditions. Japan consumes around half the red meat compared to most European countries and the US. Yes they eat meat, but in smaller quantities than rest of world. Your statement was simply that Japan eats meat so why do they live so long, but there are many factors such as less meat, better healthcare, great social care for elderly, continuing social engagement of older people within their family and society at large. The list is much larger - life expectancy is a complex equation, not just do they ever eat meat.

the vegans are saying a vegan diet is healthier, without providing context, Japan proves thats not true as also without context
shop bought "vegan food" is just as bad as the other processed food it replaces, when vegans say "vegan food is healthier" they mean "whole food is healthier", but do you only buy fresh food or do you buy "vegan food" from the supermarket?

 

[Raymond Lin]

Definitely can't say that ,all I can say is that I minimise my impact where I can now .
I also feel pretty bad for the meat (animals) I did consume before I switched

Exactly, and I am the same. I haven't eaten any meat today either and don't think I will at lunchtime too but I do what I do and that's all I can do.

I still feel bad hitting a bird last night driving home. Splat on my windscreen then because it was raining the wiper then wiped off the feather/blood straight away...still in a bit of shock with that!

 

[cheesefest]

You do realise this applies to the meat industry as well, an industry where 77% of agricultural land is dedicated to it, so they're not really good points to use for an argument of why you shouldn't be veggie/vegan


What horrible advice to give

well i left this thread but i think its important to say that personally the look and smell of raw meat (dead animal) turns my stomach ,
as said in my earlier post team meat on here is showing massive cognitive dissonance with ridiculously flawed arguments and the" look at me i eat lots of meat and have zero empathy "brigade.

I can’t stand the smell of the butchers area in a market. Good job that the smell goes when meat is cooked.

 

[cheesefest]

the vegans are saying a vegan diet is healthier, without providing context, Japan proves thats not true as also without context
shop bought "vegan food" is just as bad as the other processed food it replaces, when vegans say "vegan food is healthier" they mean "whole food is healthier", but do you only buy fresh food or do you buy "vegan food" from the supermarket?

Look at the fat content of vegan meat replacements. I’m sure I saw a vegan burger with 4x fat than a skinny meat burger.

 

[MikeTheNative]

High fat foods aren't necessarily unhealthy.
I'm not going to go vegan but I am trying to cut down on meat and diary consumption. Trying to get a bit more creative and try some vegan meals, it's easy to get into a rut with food where you keep having the same things every week.

 

[hood1971]

It's not just RED meat, nor is vegan the solution to make people live longer.

The FACT and this is a FACT! is that Japanese do eat meat and they live the longest and as you and I both said, there are more factors involved other than meat...which means if there are other factors other than just meat then why is veganism being pushed as the EXCUSE that you will live longer? When you stated there are OTHER factors?

Surely it's OTHER factors, rather than just meat which makes people don't live as long? Then why do people blame meat as the reason for shorter life expectancy?

the vegans are saying a vegan diet is healthier, without providing context, Japan proves thats not true as also without context
shop bought "vegan food" is just as bad as the other processed food it replaces, when vegans say "vegan food is healthier" they mean "whole food is healthier", but do you only buy fresh food or do you buy "vegan food" from the supermarket?

There is no one factor that can explain longer life expectancy, or what makes a healthy diet. Japan do eat meat, but in small quantities, conversely they actually eat less fresh goods than a lot of other developed countries. It is balanced by more fish and less highly processed food. But this alone does not explain their longer life expectancy.
A healthy diet and lifestyle has may factors, being vegetarian/vegan does not automatically equate to being healthy or unhealthy - like most things in life it depends on multiple factors.

 

[moon man]

Look at the fat content of vegan meat replacements. I’m sure I saw a vegan burger with 4x fat than a skinny meat burger.

Wouldn't surprise me ,my motive is ethical not health driven but sure you can still eat rubbish .today at work I have Tesco no sausage rolls ,cashews and blueberries ,item 1 is probably unhealthy