Why are you not vegan....

[413x]

I don't get this methane argument.

I was of the understanding that animal agriculture is a massive massive methane producing source.

Thus cutting this out (particularly beef) is of net benefit?



But I admire vegans for ethics not environmental. That's what's driven me to cut down significantly.

 

[Johno please?]

Laughable accusing others of telling lies yet you can not backup any of your claims.

Again showing how uneducated you are you do not even understand how and who runs the food industry.

Counter argument is google so that has all the answers science and people who have skill sets doing the living for decades know nothing but google does the same with history if google has an alt version that is only correct.

I knew vegans are mentally challenged due to the poor nutrition but seriously please eat some eggs or a bit of meat you need help.



Already given you facts use your tool google if you must remember this tells the truth it has an answer of 1 cow can feed a whole family for a year.

So who is it killing billions you plant eaters remember all those insects and other animals which are wiped out to protect crops.



Pigs living inside what is your point?

Would you like them to be allowed to roam the world and be wiped out.

Humans are spending a lot of time indoors as well.

RSPCA links whats the point? You are a typical vegan you have no case so you try to flash around this place shows this or that place as if they have any standing or meaning they don't provide "FACTS" and "SCIENCE" none of those links provide a single case it's all words the same with all the claimed studies you people keep bringing up.

Do you have any pets?

Oh right you want evidence....

but no, they obviously don't care about their young.

Billions more animals are killed in the meat/dairy & egg industries, you think a mouse or bird will sit and wait to be killed by a loud tractor? But this is besides the point really because most crops grown are still fed to animals.

So ultimately if you care about insects and mice being killed (you don't) you should still be vegan.

Drivers of Deforestation

The world loses 5 million hectares of forest each year. What activities are driving this?

ourworldindata.org

"pigs living inside" yea thats the point I was making, did you even read what they do to the pigs "inside"?

A single case? no, they describe industry standard practices here in the UK.

"Humans are spending a lot of time indoors", lol I don't even know what this point is, we have a choice, the animals we breed don't get a say in it.

I've not followed the evolution of johno's argument but has he been arguing Veganism from an environmental/CO2 POV? As to start with it was all about just animal welfare / not killing animals.

I know I mentioned early on about the environmental effects, though good points have been made about the increase from plant based and rice farming that would happen if it expanded to fill the gap

Exactly, thanks, at least someones gets it.

Also, most plants are grown for what.... animal feed. We eat a tiny percentage of it.

I have no kids, cycle to work, not materialistic at all, and don't consume animal products, I think my carbon footprint is pretty damn low.

 

[Raymond Lin]

The caveat is they've eaten meat in largely sustainable ways

i thought you are talking about morals? Or is it sustainability?

My post is about morals, if you want to change the goal posts now to sustainability we can.

No one is saying we should eat all the cows to extinction. I don’t want the planet to die either hence I’m reducing my impact in many ways, not just by cutting out meat.

What good is there if I turn vegan and then starting to ramp up my heating 2 months early and leave it on 2 months later? Am I living a better life? Morally or sustainably?

 

[413x]

I don't understand the arguments for "we are supposed to eat meat".

Aren't we beyond this? "Meant to" seems a bit of a silly counter.
We've evolved beyond living in Caves.
We aren't meant to live in them. We did. But not anymore. If we can live without eating meat then surely that's a good thing?

 

[Raymond Lin]

I don't understand the arguments for "we are supposed to eat meat".

Aren't we beyond this? "Meant to" seems a bit of a silly counter.
We've evolved beyond living in Caves.
We aren't meant to live in them. We did. But not anymore. If we can live without eating meat then surely that's a good thing?

Our mind is but our body isn’t. The fact is that some people here need to take pills on a vegan diet is proof we are not evolved enough to go on a vegan diet. If we are evolved enough to live solely on grass in the garden, wouldn’t that be great? It would save so much money! But we can’t, just because morally you think you can, your body says no.

 

[Thekwango]

I don't understand the arguments for "we are supposed to eat meat".

probably best staying out of the debate then

 

[413x]

If the biology is sound, I see no issues with lab grown meat.

This is coming. It will be cheaper and that's when animal farming will die off.

Usually things really change on price.

Climate change will never stop until renewables are truely cheaper.
Animal farming will only die off when lab meat is cheaper and as good.

But it will come.

Then everyone will be able to look back at the previous generations and say "how did they do that.. Its so cruel"

 

[Devilman]

Doesn't make sense, the fact countless animals are vegan isn't good enough for you then ? Same logic.

My own morality is simple - If I wouldn't like something done to me, I don't do it to something else, really is that simple.

Pain, is universal, you don't need a higher ape brain to understand it - hurt any animal or living creature, it will clearly & obviously respond in pain, so, I don't wish to inflict any pain on any one, or other species.

Actually no, pain is NOT universal at all, the very fact you try to assert that it is, demonstrates "belief" over research.

Just a few pages ago I posted a link from an ALCU professor on the topic of sentience and it also specifically covered the notions of "pain" and "suffering". - You are conflating the biological process called nociception (the ability to react to certain stimuli such as extreme heat, cold, physical damage etc..) with the ability to "feel" pain and suffering, which is linked directly with the notion of self-awareness and thus consciousness.

While nociception refers to neural encoding of impending or actual tissue damage (ie, noxious stimulation), pain refers to the subjective experience of actual or impending harm. Although nociceptive stimulation usually leads to pain, pharmacological and brain lesion research shows that one can exist without the other.

You're own morality seems to be flawed also. Since I have no doubt you would not enjoy being splattered against the front of a car, bus, train or plane at high speed, nor would you wish for it do be done to you - Yet I am 100% certain you have indeed done this many times, to many millions of creatures during your life. Do you not see the hypocrisy of your claims of morality?

 

[413x]

Our mind is but our body isn’t. The fact is that some people here need to take pills on a vegan diet is proof we are not evolved enough to go on a vegan diet. If we are evolved enough to live solely on grass in the garden, wouldn’t that be great? It would save so much money! But we can’t, just because morally you think you can, your body says no.

But if those AAs etc we can't synthesise can be aquire dhr technology I see no issue. We use it in our lives all the time to aid our biological weaknesses

 

[Minstadave]

Then everyone will be able to look back at the previous generations and say "how did they do that.. Its so cruel"

And we'll miss the fields full of animals and the sounds of the countryside.

 

[413x]

And we'll miss the fields full of animals and the sounds of the countryside.

Fields full of animals is completely unnatural. The sooner it goes and that land can be returned to a natural state the better.

Wales is much wilder than East anglia where I grew up. But there is massive amounts of desolate land from sheep farming.

 

[ThriceNightly]

Whenever I think of vegan .....reminds me of neighbours 2 doors up.
They been vegan long term (decades). Scrawny appearance....both look they could do with a good juicy steak!

 

[Minusorange]

i thought you are talking about morals? Or is it sustainability?

I guess if you know what you're doing is unsustainable then it could be argued as immoral, but morality is very nuanced, so I'm sure some would argue it's nothing to do with morality even if deep down we have a moral obligation to sustain the life giving properties of the planet for future generations but even that could be argued I guess

 

[413x]

I'm actually not opposed to eating meat as what it might come across as. I suppose I'm mainly opposed to intensive farming, slaughter houses, unnecessary animal cruelty.

I know people on both sides seem to have binary views.

But if an animal had a decent life (ie not a pig in a cramped 3m*2m pen with 10 other pigs, and is killed as humanely as possible I have no real issue with this.

 

[Devilman]

I don't understand the arguments for "we are supposed to eat meat".

Aren't we beyond this? "Meant to" seems a bit of a silly counter.
We've evolved beyond living in Caves.
We aren't meant to live in them. We did. But not anymore. If we can live without eating meat then surely that's a good thing?

To be fair, it's quite a silly counter to pretend we can evolve overnight.

We did not one day on masse just decide to all up sticks out of our caves and move into built dwellings overnight. We cannot just suddenly decide to "evolve" beyond eating meat overnight, it will take decades. Evolution takes decades, if not centuries or even eons. This notion that "we evolved out of caves so everyone should stop eating meat" is utterly flawed. It would take generations for us to "evolve".

 

[413x]

To be fair, it's quite a silly counter to pretend we can evolve overnight.

We did not one day on masse just decide to all up sticks out of our caves and move into built dwellings overnight. We cannot just suddenly decide to "evolve" beyond eating meat overnight, it will take decades. Evolution takes decades, if not centuries or even eons. This notion that "we evolved out of caves so everyone should stop eating meat" is utterly flawed. It would take generations for us to "evolve".

I'm not denying that. Change happens slowly. We got rid of slavery slowly. We changed from walking to cars slowly.
Biologically we evolve very very slowly.

Nothing changes overnight. But the drive to change to a more vegan way of life is surely a good aim?

 

[Minstadave]

Fields full of animals is completely unnatural. The sooner it goes and that land can be returned to a natural state the better.

Wales is much wilder than East anglia where I grew up. But there is massive amounts of desolate land from sheep farming.

a lot of the pastures will need to be turned into lab meat factories and arable land to provide whatever protein source is needed to make the lab meat - I'm not sure that's much better. Those pasture lands won't be turned back into natural forests/grasslands etc.

 

[Raymond Lin]

But if those AAs etc we can't synthesise can be aquire dhr technology I see no issue. We use it in our lives all the time to aid our biological weaknesses

I don’t need to take pills to live, and long may that be so. There is no way i would voluntarily change my life style to weaken my body to the point where i need to take pills in order to survive. You call it a diet, I call it making myself sick.

 

[krooton]

I'm actually not opposed to eating meat as what it might come across as. I suppose I'm mainly opposed to intensive farming, slaughter houses, unnecessary animal cruelty.

I know people on both sides seem to have binary views.

But if an animal had a decent life (ie not a pig in a cramped 3m*2m pen with 10 other pigs, and is killed as humanely as possible I have no real issue with this.

I dunno, the meat eater side are unlikely to take joyful glee in torturing animals before eating them, as some would have them painted...

 

[413x]

I don’t need to take pills to live, and long may that be so. There is no way i would voluntarily change my life style to weaken my body to the point where i need to take pills in order to survive. You call it a diet, I call it making myself sick.

What if the vegan diet didn't have physical pills? But was fortified? This is obviously very common in many foods? Even layers are given extra additives to colour the yolk.