Why are you not vegan....

[LiE]

Anything else?

Whilst I eat marmite, I have it perhaps once a month. I don't like it enough to have it every morning.

Just pop a multi vitamin each day for insurance, vegan or not, most diets don’t hit all the RDAs.

 

[Raymond Lin]

No idea, but to say that there’s no b12 in vegan food isn’t true. Whatever vegan food even is…

I don't really buy much-processed food, I've even started making my own bread since I got a breadmaker.

Perhaps the most processed stuff I get would be tinned soups, sausages, frozen chips (is that considered processed?) and hashbrowns. I make my own burgers, i don't buy ready made beef pattys.

 

[LiE]

I don't really buy much-processed food, I've even started making my own bread since I got a breadmaker.

Perhaps the most processed stuff I get would be tinned soups, sausages, frozen chips (is that considered processed?) and hashbrowns. I make my own burgers, i don't buy ready made beef pattys.

I still don’t eat beef or pork, I don’t mind a vegan sausage or burger as long as it’s a decent one. Cauldron do the best non-meat sausages, they have egg in them so aren’t vegan.

Plant-Based & Vegetarian Products and Recipes | Cauldron

Love Plants. Love Veg. Love Cauldron. Careful concoctions. Delightful bites. We make it easy to enjoy the best of plants & veggies, every mouthwatering time.

www.cauldronfoods.co.uk

Burgers I usually go for a Beyond.

Aldi do vegan Brioche burger and sausage buns that taste the same as the normal ones.

 

[Raymond Lin]

I don't really understand how eggs don't count as vegan. Laying eggs is natural to hens, Keep one as pet and it will give you eggs anyway. You don't need to kill the hen for the eggs. It gladly lay it. It's not fertilised, you don't have to touch the hen. it's not like you have to keep a cow going through the cycle of getting pregnant in order to milk it.

Sure if it's caged but if you have your own hen, let it roam around a large garden. What's not vegan about those eggs?

 

[Ahleckz]

I don't really understand how eggs don't count as vegan. Laying eggs is natural to hens, Keep one as pet and it will give you eggs anyway. You don't need to kill the hen for the eggs. It gladly lay it. It's not fertilised, you don't have to touch the hen. it's not like you have to keep a cow going through the cycle of getting pregnant in order to milk it.

Hens get less productive as they age. You need to replace a hen, and millions of male chicks are shredded as they aren’t needed.
Many hens are kept in very very bad conditions.
Vegans not eating eggs is about preventing harm to the chickens as a whole, not just the one who lays the eggs.

Having your own hens may be more acceptable, for reasons you state - they are going to lay them anyway. But for factory hens it’s a clear no no.

 

[Johno please?]

When I was in Lithuania I once picked a pig. Slaughtered it. Burnt all the hair off it and help cut it up. The worst part was the poop coming out when it got squeezed in a certain way.

The fact is that a pig would have never been born or lived had it not been for consumption. In that way it is better to live a life than not live one at all.

Thats how conditioned we are, you're not the first person here to think that a sentient creature living for a fraction of its actual lifespan, then being horribly killed, is better than it not existing in the first place.

Almond, soya, you must really hate the environment....

"More than three-quarters (77%) of global soy is fed to livestock for meat and dairy production. Most of the rest is used for biofuels, industry or vegetable oils. Just 7% of soy is used directly for human food products such as tofu, soy milk, edamame beans, and tempeh"

 

[Thekwango]

The fact is that a pig would have never been born or lived had it not been for consumption. In that way it is better to live a life than not live one at all.

that's a bit of a mental statement there dude! pretty sure i know which i'd prefer were i a pig....thank **** they don't get a say (currently)

 

[Minusorange]

I don't really understand how eggs don't count as vegan. Laying eggs is natural to hens, Keep one as pet and it will give you eggs anyway. You don't need to kill the hen for the eggs. It gladly lay it. It's not fertilised, you don't have to touch the hen. it's not like you have to keep a cow going through the cycle of getting pregnant in order to milk it.

Sure if it's caged but if you have your own hen, let it roam around a large garden. What's not vegan about those eggs?

Just google baby male chicks and macerator to see why the egg industry isn't vegan, sadly it's basically a genocide on them, I rarely eat eggs nowadays because of it but there are improvements in the form of egg sexing and just deleting the male eggs rather than letting the eggs hatch and culling all the males, their life is literally hatch, have giants handle them and then get either gassed or blended all in the same day

 

[Raymond Lin]

Just google baby male chicks and macerator to see why the egg industry isn't vegan, sadly it's basically a genocide on them, I rarely eat eggs nowadays because of it but there are improvements in the form of egg sexing and just deleting the male eggs rather than letting the eggs hatch and culling all the males, their life is literally hatch, have giants handle them and then get either gassed or blended all in the same day

Did you read what I said about a pet hen, free to roam around? I said "What's not vegan about those eggs"

I gave you an example of why those FREE TO ROAM can be vegan. I even said if it's not caged.

Does that not show I already know what you are referring to already?

 

[Angilion]

That is a strong possibility yes because like i said, we only breed them for meat they don't exist in nature.

So you are talking about wild animals, despite claiming you weren't.

I consider it unnecessary, animals do kill other animals im aware thanks.

And I'm aware you're avoiding the point. You made an appeal to authority claim (which is what talking about "nature" is when you're claiming that natural = right and unnatural = wrong) and you're avoiding trying to back it up. Animals killing other animals for food is natural, for what that's worth. Nothing IMO, since natural != right and unnatural != wrong.

Arguing that it's unnecessary for humans to kill other animals for food is very different to arguing that it's unnatural for humans to kill other animals for food.

 

[SideWinder]

Very very easy? Really?

So a supplement...

For that example, 160g is "bodybuilding" world so not a fair example of an average person's requirements which would be much lower.

I believe the "very very easy" was referring to there being a lot of vegan options:

A Comprehensive Chart of Vegan Protein Sources

If you're following a vegan diet, you'll want to get plenty of protein from the foods you eat. This article offers a comprehensive chart of vegan protein sources.

www.healthline.com

 

[Angilion]

I’m curious, for all the vegans here how much exercise do you do on a weekly basis and what type of exercise (if your job involves a lot of physical movement feel free to list)?
For those that do a lot of exercise Do you have to heavily supplement the protein your missing out on?

I ask because I basically crave meat after a workout due to the protein.

I'm not a vegan but I did look into it in some detail when I was considering going vegan.

You can get as much protein from a vegan diet as you can from an omnivorous diet if you mix and match plants in a suitable way. The issue is the balance of essential amino acids. Animal protein contains them in about the same proportions humans use so if you eat 100g of animal protein your body will be able to recycle it to the amino acids it's made from and use those to make almost 100g of the proteins you need. Overall, plant proteins use different proportions of essential amino acids to animal proteins, so if you eat 100g of plant protein your body can recycle it to the amino acids but might not be able to make anywhere near 100g of the proteins you need. It's like having, for example, 100g of salt and 10g of sugar when the recipe calls for 10g of salt and 100g of sugar. The overall mass of the ingredients (amino acids in the case of proteins) is the same but the mass of the individual ingredients is wrong so you can't make anywhere near as much of the desired end result. The way around it for a vegan diet and protein is to get your plant proteins from different plants. Protein from different plants contains essential amino acids in different proportions, so with the right mix of plants you can get the same proportion of essential amino acids that your body needs and the end result protein-wise is the same as an omnivorous diet.

It's more fuss, but it's perfectly doable if you know what you're doing. You don't need to do it with every meal because your body can store some amount of amino acids for a day or two and you can get close enough by just eating different types of plants. Some nuts, some pulses, some leafy green veg, that sort of thing. Generally, plants of a similar type tend to have a similar proportion of the essential amino acids. Generally. Not always, but generally. You'd have to be more precise about nutrition if you were after fully optimising your diet for strength, but that's true with an omnivorous diet too. The upper limit would probably be lower, but we're talking about seriously strong athletes there.

 

[andybird123]

Why is killing something, that doesn’t want to die, out of choice, not wrong?

Though, I can tell by your second paragraph you aren’t genuine about having a discussion. A lion can’t go to Tesco and buy what it needs. It needs to eat that gazelle. You don’t. You can decide to do so, but you should realise that taking a life unnecessarily is wrong.
Taking a life can’t be ok, what gives anyone the right to kill anything else that doesn’t want to die?
I’m not saying don’t do it, I’m just saying you can’t have it both ways. You can’t claim the moral high ground when it’s evident you don’t have it.

It’s pretty simple, killing is wrong. You can say you don’t care, and that’s fine, but you can’t claim it isn’t wrong and it isn’t a corruption of morals.

Our Moral Duty to Eat Meat | Journal of the American Philosophical Association | Cambridge Core

Our Moral Duty to Eat Meat - Volume 7 Issue 3

www.cambridge.org

 

[Ahleckz]

Our Moral Duty to Eat Meat | Journal of the American Philosophical Association | Cambridge Core

Our Moral Duty to Eat Meat - Volume 7 Issue 3

www.cambridge.org

I don’t believe you’ve read much of that article, I’ve skimmed it and it rests of the argument that “it’s better to live a life and die than not live at all”. From videos showing how many animals live I don’t think that’s the case.

But since you have given no narrative and just linked and ran, I don’t really see the point in discussing it with you.

I’ll post this rebuttal to it though - blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/2022/01/guest-post-no-we-dont-owe-it-to-the-animals-to-eat-them/

 

[mike9199]

I've been vegetarian for about two years and it was ok, my body needed some meat and i started to eat it again in one point.
Chicken once a week plus fish twice a week, i consider it not too much. Still take additional vitamins which i frequently order from Canada Drugs and which help me to keep my immune system in a good shape.

 

[krooton]

I've been vegetarian for about two years and it was ok, my body needed some meat and i started to eat it again in one point.
Chicken once a week plus fish twice a week, i consider it not too much.

And this is the key point that a few people have made, encouraging people to eat less meat will have a more notable impact than trying to guilt everyone in to going vegan.

It's like the 5-a-day thing. The actual goal should actually be more like 10-15, but tell people that and they won't even TRY as it seems so daunting, so 5-a-day can be more effective at getting people to eat at least slightly healthier. (obviously crap like marketing smoothies as being part of your 5-a-day needs to get in the sea)

The absolute irony is militant vegans going for the stick route instead of the carrot.

 

[Raymond Lin]

And this is the key point that a few people have made, encouraging people to eat less meat will have a more notable impact than trying to guilt everyone in to going vegan.

It's like the 5-a-day thing. The actual goal should actually be more like 10-15, but tell people that and they won't even TRY as it seems so daunting, so 5-a-day can be more effective at getting people to eat at least slightly healthier. (obviously crap like marketing smoothies as being part of your 5-a-day needs to get in the sea)

The absolute irony is militant vegans going for the stick route instead of the carrot.

Exactly and I have been saying that all along, NONE of them, and I mean NONE of them have said "start eating less meat", I have to keep putting that idea forward myself. They all go with the angle, stop immediately, it's bad for the planet, it's bad for your health, you are a nasty person, stop this. So many absolutes.

My takeaway from vegans is this thread alone is that.

1 - They implied that I am an animal abuser, even if indirectly
2 - That they have higher morality than me
3 - I am a disturbed character

I have to look up a psychology book (I don’t have this degree!!! lol) to find out what this feeling is but this feeling I am having now is to reject veganism if veganism means the above and does that above to me on a psychological level. I rather eat another steak than die early than turn into that kind of person, who I personally believe is a bad human trait. Judgmental, egotistic, arrogant. Those are the takeaway I get from being a vegan from people on here.

No, just no. I reject that idea.

You can be a vegan and be nice about it, and humble about it. Telling others they are bad people for eating meat. Really? that's the angle they are going to go with?

Apparently!

 

[dlockers]

The passive aggressive quips are good too.

 

[LiE]

I mean this is GD, I wouldn't base my opinion on vegans as a whole on interactions here or via most of the people being very vocal about it online.

 

[adolf hamster]

Exactly and I have been saying that all along, NONE of them, and I mean NONE of them have said "start eating less meat", I have to keep putting that idea forward myself. They all go with the angle, stop immediately, it's bad for the planet, it's bad for your health, you are a nasty person, stop this. So many absolutes.

My takeaway from vegans is this thread alone is that.

1 - They implied that I am an animal abuser, even if indirectly
2 - That they have higher morality than me
3 - I am a disturbed character

I have to look up a psychology book (I don’t have this degree!!! lol) to find out what this feeling is but this feeling I am having now is to reject veganism if veganism means the above and does that above to me on a psychological level. I rather eat another steak than die early than turn into that kind of person, who I personally believe is a bad human trait. Judgmental, egotistic, arrogant. Those are the takeaway I get from being a vegan from people on here.

No, just no. I reject that idea.

You can be a vegan and be nice about it, and humble about it. Telling others they are bad people for eating meat. Really? that's the angle they are going to go with?

Apparently!

worth noting that we're only seeing the face of veganism here that's evangelical enough to try and spread the word on the internet, so not strictly representative.

the vegans/vegetarians i know irl tend to be much much less militant and at least accept that they're not going to convert people by being pushy, the most you'll get is a "that's vegan you know" when they're eating/serving something tasty.

needless to say i feel bad for the regular group that they're being marked with the same brush as the militant types.