Why are you not vegan....

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adolf hamster said:
worth noting that we're only seeing the face of veganism here that's evangelical enough to try and spread the word on the internet, so not strictly representative.

the vegans/vegetarians i know irl tend to be much much less militant and at least accept that they're not going to convert people by being pushy, the most you'll get is a "that's vegan you know" when they're eating/serving something tasty.

needless to say i feel bad for the regular group that they're being marked with the same brush as the militant types.
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Oh i know, wholly realise that hence I said: "in this thread". I am not saying they are all like that at all.

Although i still struggle to understand the idea they need to convert you, they shouldn't even try to convert anyone. Their goal is to have less animals die, their goal is to have the planet in a better place. For that to happen, the EASIER way is to lower meat consumption, not zero meat consumption.

That should be the goal, that is the only achievable goal.
 
Raymond Lin said:
I don't really understand how eggs don't count as vegan. Laying eggs is natural to hens, Keep one as pet and it will give you eggs anyway. You don't need to kill the hen for the eggs. It gladly lay it. It's not fertilised, you don't have to touch the hen. it's not like you have to keep a cow going through the cycle of getting pregnant in order to milk it.

Sure if it's caged but if you have your own hen, let it roam around a large garden. What's not vegan about those eggs?
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It "could" turn into a baby hen I suppose!

My best friend is a vegan but not because she cares about the animals. She does it for the environment. She runs crazy marathons in Thailand so it seems to work for her.
 
adolf hamster said:
worth noting that we're only seeing the face of veganism here that's evangelical enough to try and spread the word on the internet, so not strictly representative.

the vegans/vegetarians i know irl tend to be much much less militant and at least accept that they're not going to convert people by being pushy, the most you'll get is a "that's vegan you know" when they're eating/serving something tasty.

needless to say i feel bad for the regular group that they're being marked with the same brush as the militant types.
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True, it's like when the usual suspects trot out their snide "religion of peace" line, implying that every Muslim would happily see the death of any non-believers, which is in no way the case.

I have no issue with religious people, or vegans, or any other choice, as long as they aren't militant/extreme/pushy.
 
For those interested, this is a good video. Ed here is providing some interesting viewpoints with the hope that people start to question their own values.

 
Raymond Lin said:
Oh i know, wholly realise that hence I said: "in this thread". I am not saying they are all like that at all.

Although i still struggle to understand the idea they need to convert you, they shouldn't even try to convert anyone. Their goal is to have less animals die, their goal is to have the planet in a better place. For that to happen, the EASIER way is to lower meat consumption, not zero meat consumption.

That should be the goal, that is the only achievable goal.
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i do agree with you, less but better quality meat is a more achievable and practical goal. hell i support that notion for no better reason than the idea of it tasting better.

tbh i'd argue it's not just meat has fallen foul of mass production but vegetables too, but that's getting into a larger and more complex discussion.
 
Alice In Wonderland said:
I've a question for those of you who are vegan. Do you take it as far as making sure you have no plastic bags as there are animal components in them and making sure you avoid all the products that have animals in them too?
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Veganism is actually about reducing animal suffering and exploitation where practically possible. The key bit there is practically.

"Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals."
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www.vegansociety.com

Definition of veganism

What is a vegan and vegan food? What does veganism mean?
www.vegansociety.com www.vegansociety.com
 
Raymond Lin said:
their goal is to have the planet in a better place.
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They say that but, they use their diet choice saving 800kg of CO2 as an excuse to go on transatlantic flights (1600kg) and own cars (2400kg), so if they actually did care about the environment they would take a look at all aspects of what they as an individual can influence, instead of making a minor change in one area and using it as carte blanche to live a more destructive lifestyle than someone who does eat meat but has given up other things.

By the end of next year we'll be off grid and over 50% self sufficient for food as well (about 80-90% self sufficient for meat)
 
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adolf hamster said:
i do agree with you, less but better quality meat is a more achievable and practical goal. hell i support that notion for no better reason than the idea of it tasting better.

tbh i'd argue it's not just meat has fallen foul of mass production but vegetables too, but that's getting into a larger and more complex discussion.
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I know that too. In my day job when I am not taking wedding pictures, in my other pictures jobs…anyway, through it I have met local farmers (who are quite a large farm and producer), who recent years had to switch from the 100% recycled black plastic punnets used for their berries to paper cardboard.

Sounds good on paper, except the paper cardboard punnets are bulkier, heavier than the same punnet compared to a plastic one. The overall carbon footprint to transport the punnet, both when empty to his farm and when loaded with berries to the distributor is larger than the same plastic punnet.

But it fits the whole no plastic image that people like to see.

Not everything is what it seems, and sometimes you need to look at the bigger picture. And I don’t think those paper punnets are recyclable either. And I know whether those original plastic punnets will be recycled at all is a question but that’s another topic altogether.
 
andybird123 said:
They say that but, they use their diet choice saving 800kg of CO2 as an excuse to go on transatlantic flights (1600kg) and own cars (2400kg), so if they actually did care about the environment they would take a look at all aspects of what they as an individual can influence, instead of making a minor change in one area and using it as carte blanche to live a more destructive lifestyle than someone who does eat meat but has given up other things.
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It's hard to expect people to function in today's world without making some negative impact on the environment, but it doesn't mean people shouldn't strive to do better.
 
LiE said:
It's hard to expect people to function in today's world without making some negative impact on the environment, but it doesn't mean people shouldn't strive to do better.
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If the environment is the goal then they can do it in many ways.

Boil only the water you need.
Don’t waste food.
Drive less, walk more to places.
Switch to LED lights.
Only turn on the heating when you see your own breathing inside your house!

If the notion is where at all practicable, if eating meat is not something they could give up, and they find the above easier and more practicable to do. Who are the vegans that to shame them for not doing their part if they are in other areas. Why practicable be such a narrow notion? That isn’t practicable at all IMO.
 
LiE said:
It's hard to expect people to function in today's world without making some negative impact on the environment, but it doesn't mean people shouldn't strive to do better.
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I agree, I am absolutely no one to tell someone else what to do, but then I'm not the one trying to guilt people in to giving something up, just pointing out the hypocrisy of telling people to give up meat for environmental reasons when their life is 6-10 times more destructive based on CO2 (the metric they keep using).
 
Alice In Wonderland said:
It "could" turn into a baby hen I suppose!

My best friend is a vegan but not because she cares about the animals. She does it for the environment. She runs crazy marathons in Thailand so it seems to work for her.
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not sure how. when we had chickens they never went near a cockerel when we were eating the eggs and once the egg is laid it is too late.
 
LiE said:
I’ve read that if you leave the eggs they will eat them to regain lost nutrients from laying said egg. Any truth to that ?
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probably . ours didn't that I know of but then I never gave them chance. generally nature (apart from humans) does not like waste so I expect so.

whether a chicken would choose an egg over the grain and feed we gave them even if an egg was left there or whether it would just be a means to an end to feed in the wild I don't know.

Come to think of it one of our chickens used to eat mice and baby birds of she could get them so I think it is a given she would eat eggs if hungry enough.


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It's very rare I'll eat a meal with no meat, no plans on changing this to be honest. :)

I've tried substitutes, and while they're not horrible, they're not exactly nice either. Life's too short to force myself to eat food I don't enjoy.
 
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