Soldato
nevermind - I'll post later....
Poll: Winter Is Coming - HBO's A Game of Thrones [READ WARNING]
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I predicted that Dany would go skitz and Tyrion would have second thoughts. Looks like it might happen.
Can sort of understand why Dany doesn't want council anymore either. Tyrion has been crap at council so far
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It's been said a few times but you really seem to think you're watching an episode of 24 where it's all in real time or something...
Look, I love the show too, but there is no defending it any more - especially after this episode - time and space continuum of the narration is lost. We might not particularly care how Jon Snow manages his 1600 mile journey from Winterfell to Dragonstone faster than Aria going 2/3rd of the distance in the opposite direction with a head start, because it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things - maybe he took a motorboat and it became one of those Top Gear features. We might overlook how Aria covered twice as much space as White Walkers had to Winterfell, and get there before them, because you know - that's the main payload of the season - we'll wait.
He took a single ship with decent winds behind him (as he said), that'd easily outpace someone meandering their way from the Riverlands up into the North.
We can speculate that Euron split his fleet in two or that his intel and fleet is omnipresent on all seas. We can keep coming up with excuses, but to put it simply - we weren't told, we weren't shown any of these things.
It was one fleet, they'd have plenty time to smash the fleet making it's way to Dorne, come back to Kings landing then sail for Casterly Rock on the other side of the continent a day later. The Unsullied fleet would be at most 2/3 days ahead on a journey that might take 10 days minimum. You can't believe the Ironborn couldn't make that time up on the Unsullied? They still arrived after the siege was finished.
When they do the whole "Hey, where is Danny, donno, she was gone after lunch" shtick at the beach of Dragonstone - the plot get really shoddily complicated for no other reason than lazyness:
- Before Theon manage to return to the Dragonstone from where Euron sunk their fleet, Danny and Dorthraki cross the entire Bay in the opposite direction and get to the shores of Westeros.
Who knows how far out and around the ship with Theon went trying to avoid Euron. Could well have been damaged. It hardly matters in the scheme of things.
- With what when both parts of her fleet are sunk by Euron?
As Tyrion said, they have enough ships still to get the Dothraki across.
- Even if some of the ships survived, how come Euron's omnipresent fleet allowed Danny and Dorthraki to go across the Blackwater Bay untouched?
Because Euron and his fleet are on the other side of the continent, presumably sailing back during the course of this episode. You can't complain about ridiculous journey times (that aren't) and use it as part of your argument! Is that the very definition of a non-sequitur?!
- No intel reached Greysjoys or Lannisters? Satellite phones work in the middle of the night at Blackwater Bay, they work minutes after Unsullied storm the castle, but conveniently they don't work when Danny flies dragons across Crownlands?
How would an army out in the open get a raven sent to them with a Calvary horde & Dragon steaming toward them?!
- Consequently how does Danny and Dorthraki manage to cover hundreds of miles, sail or gallop past King's Landing and deep, deep inland to Blackwater's Rush and surprise Jamie, who apparently is still on the way in the opposite direction? How did she even know?
She knew they were emptying the stores of Highgarden - I don't think it was hundreds of miles but actually quite close to Kings Landing. The gold caravans had already made it through the gates (presumably with a portion of the lannister army) while the rear was slowed collecting and moving the grain.
We aren't told how all of these things are possible not because plot runs fast and there is no time to tell us - there is time - this episode was only 46 minutes long from credits to credits, there was plenty of time to create time and space perspective with few extra scenes. We aren't told these things because the makers don't give a dragon's excrement anymore. They got 40% payrise from HBO for this season, they then decided to make themselves extra 30% bonus on top of payrise by shortening runtime from 10 to 7 episodes and still couldn't care enough to deliver coherent plot. They started resolving everything in the laziest of ways - "because", deus ex machina, right place, right time. How did she manage to get there so quick? How do all of these people now manage to be everywhere they inexplicably forsee the need to be, always in right places at the right time, all the time? "somehow". dealwithitmeme.gif
You think shooting a scene like that is easy?!? You've got a real bee in your bonnet about the shorter season like the makers are giving us the middle finger. It's a bit odd. I suspect it's more down to multiple and huge shoots that you normally only get maybe twice a season. We've had at least 4 in 4 episodes.
What's the second thing?
Soldato
You quoted the time jumps we are used to and tend to forgive the show. But don't be apologist for the lazy writing. Danny's surprise attack on Jamie was spectacular but as far as we are concern couldn't happen because a) Euron's fleet should be patrolling the waters of Blackwater Bay unless they teleported west b) King's Landing is positioned precisely where it is so no one can access the land or the river from the bay without alerting the squads in capital c) the time frame is impossible. It needed three extra scenes - one of Jamie getting delayed by something on the way, one of Dorthraki fleet sneaking past Euron, one of Danny sneaking through King's Wood with a dragon at night. There was enough runtime in 14 minute short episode to fit all three scenes, but they wanted chronologically confused "Oh, where is Danny" reveal to give Theon something to do instead. It cheapens the plot arcs and creates plot holes, because they are relying on magical "tada" instead of coherent cause and effect and hope that serving you with eye candy will make you forget said plot holes. Which judging by the reaction - it works.
I'm not being an apologist, you're again just making the same argument and it is clearly flawed simply because the jumps in time between scenes have never been a fixed duration - I don't therefore accept the 'teleport' angle, it is perfectly fine for someone to be in one place and then the next time we see them to be in another place... if nothing significant has happened since then what is the point in showing filler... I mean do you really need some lame cut scene of someone traveling just so your imagination can accept that significant time has passed? It seems to be more of an issue of whether you can deal with this conceptually in your mind.
What supposed fixed duration of time do you believe occurs between scenes and why? I mean that is what your argument relies on, if you can't accept that the duration of time passed between scenes varies and always has. As the poster above has pointed out you seem to be treating this as though it is an episode of 24 and that is the flaw in your objection.
What supposed fixed duration of time do you believe occurs between scenes and why? I mean that is what your argument relies on, if you can't accept that the duration of time passed between scenes varies and always has. As the poster above has pointed out you seem to be treating this as though it is an episode of 24 and that is the flaw in your objection.
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the bay as pointed out is a big place and while he may be patrolling round kings landing, i'm betting he going no were near dragon stone in his wooden ships were the fire breathing dragons are
again you assume she came via the blackwater bay, if it was me i sail due south into masssy's hook were the land would hide me from kings landing, then thu kings wood were the wood would hide me, and given that were were told that all the gold wagons were safely in kings landing. i would bet the attack happened some were nearer to kings landing than highgarden
Soldato
Not fixed. It was never fixed. All I expect is linear (I've given enough examples of something happening fast in one direction while something else takes many times longer in the same time - there are several apologist lists longer than I have time to process today already posted to cover for lacklustre script and editing decisions). "All the gold has safely reached the gates of King's Landing, we need to get the last of these wagons across Blackwater Rush" says Randyll Tarly to Jamie after short phone call to the barracks. "Oh, btw, local TV stations babble something about never seen before horde galloping though the land and a lizard like creature on the skies" never makes it onto our screens.
He was when Greyjoy and Sands were traveling in exactly same direction?
See? That's all they needed to show. Two more scenes. You're getting there.
but that is just 'not fixed' - you're still just talking about variations in time between scenes... and it is still a flawed argument for the reasons already highlighted
nothing to do with being an 'apologist' it seems more like a conceptual issue on your part
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That episode was insane. Wow. Better than most of the finales.
Soldato
No, I'm not sure I'll be able to explain it any better than I already have, if you don't understand by now, this will just become circular conversation - the lazy approach to linearity they have in this season creates plot holes, ok? But there is a bigger problem. Because of the same laziness, everything of essence in this season so far relies on either deus ex machina or "right place, right time" devices. This will quickly become a problem. Danny's fleets and forces can't cross waters from Dragonstone because Greyjoy, until it's convenient, then Danny crosses as if nothing happens. The ravens to Danny don't work Jamie's army is so fast it can outrun any intel and chase to anywhere when they travel in one way, consequently Highgarden falls. But ravens work and the army is slow when he travels in the other direction. Therefore the plan works out brilliantly. And so on, so forth. It's constantly "aren't we forking lucky today" type of BBC writing.
It isn't about you being able to explain or me being able to understand, you're still just talking about varying amounts of time between scenes, the show changing pace etc... the argument is flawed for the reasons posted earlier and yes as you're not presenting anything new it is going around in circles - I think it is simply a conceptual problem on your part
yea but most people seem to think there a spy in danny's camp, it the only way he could know were the greyjoy and sands fleets was, even in modern warfare it very hard to find a ship at sea unless you know were to look, also look at all off danny's plans, they pretty well fallen apart but when she say sod this ****, hops on her dragon and goes do stuff, it works because the spy can't warn anyone. i can see your point that a few more scenes to explain things would be nice but to counter that it not that hard to work out for fans and people who know the map, and for people who don't well lets face it they most likely only want to see dragons blow **** up
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yea but most people seem to think there a spy in danny's camp, it the only way he could know were the greyjoy and sands fleets was, even in modern warfare it very hard to find a ship at sea unless you know were to look, also look at all off danny's plans, they pretty well fallen apart but when she say sod this ****, hops on her dragon and goes do stuff, it works because the spy can't warn anyone. i can see your point that a few more scenes to explain things would be nice but to counter that it not that hard to work out for fans and people who know the map, and for people who don't well lets face it they most likely only want to see dragons blow **** up
Seems likely. I wonder who?
Greyjoy fleet is on the other side of the world coming back from casterly rock!!!! Again, you can't complain about unrealistic travel time and then wonder why they aren't there in the next instance!
Ravens need to go from somewhere, typically keep to keep. What would be the first thing they stop from going out in Casterly Rock while planning their surprise?? How are Ravens going to get to Jaimes forces with no keep nearby?
They know about the gold getting through the gates because you'd imagine riders returned from the army sent with the gold. It's not hard, you're just looking for holes. Most of which aren't there.
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So I did question what I heard and the gold was in fact behind kings landing gates. Dany just destroyed all the food crops. Will be interesting to see what consequences this will have.
Will many citizens of KL go starving now. Sansa seems to be going on about food stores for Winterfell too. Will this be a battle for food soon?
Will many citizens of KL go starving now. Sansa seems to be going on about food stores for Winterfell too. Will this be a battle for food soon?
Soldato
Tyrion's original plan was to siege King's landing - albeit via the Tyrell and Dornish armies - and then cutting off the supplies was mentioned as 'sticking to the plan' when she was getting flustered at losing again and was thinking about going and torching The Red Keep. I get the impression she's getting food and supplies delivered from overseas for her lot. It might be a problem when winter travels further south though.
Soldato
Davos is just flipping hilarious Gotta love the guy!
Gotta love the guy!
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Wow. That was fantastic!
I saw your post so put that bit on again:
I saw your post so put that bit on again:
He definitely said gold
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