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Nvidia to support Freesync?

Soldato
Joined
27 Feb 2015
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12,596
Why are you repeating back to me what i just said, rephrased, after disagreeing with me? seems odd Bud :).

From my own personal testing I can say that it is NOT a good experience and my experience is that image persistence becomes a HUGE problem when fps starts dipping lower than 60, which is why I have said multiple times in the past that I don't care about a VVR floor lower than 40 cause I won't be playing games at lower than 55ish. Doesn't matter if it's on a Gsync panel or a Freesync(although LFC is plague with flickering on a lot of freesync panels but that's a non issue for me...can you guess why?), in my very honest from the heart opinion, it just *****. I just don't enjoy playing power point slides.

Well if that video shows me anything it is that, compared to my own standards, your requirements for the use of the word smooth are rather low and if a mouse was used in this same scenario the word smooth wouldn't even be possible to utter. Again my personal opinion, not an attack on your person, but instead a disagreement with your statements about the word smooth and how/when to use of it. In the end it's personal preference.

I believe by smooth he means no weird jarring stutters that you would notice with normal vsync, so from what both of you guys have showed me it seems I would be fine with the frame doubling, I probably wouldnt care about the input lag. I am not a twitch gamer.

With normal vsync if a game drops to 14fps even for a brief moment its jarring and stuttery. Nothing like whats in that video.
 
Associate
Joined
25 Apr 2017
Posts
1,095
What makes you think that? They have only said that the 2.4:1 ratio is required for validation. They are not going to try to run a monitor out of spec.

They also showed another non-validated monitor which had bad ghosting which is a separate issue. Both of these issues can also be seen when using AMD cards with certain FreeSync monitors. It is just a poor Adaptive Sync implementation on these monitors.

Because one of the monitors which was flickering was not flickering on an amd card once the user edited the FreeSync range. On an amd card, the LG monitor flickers when the FreeSync range is 50-144 which is default. It doesn’t flicker when chnaged to 30-14. So nvidia when showcasing that monitor didn’t even try anything to get it to work, so I suspect they aren’t going to wholeheartedly support all FreeSync monitors so they could enforce that 2.4:1 requirement on non validated monitors to weed out crap. Some monitors have as low a range as 48-75. That’s just garbage honestly.
One thing that people need to understand here at this moment 400 monitors tested and only 12 have passed. That is quite a small number for such amount of tested.

Yeah sure Nvidia now support adaptive sync, but its not just plug and play like Gsync or Freesync for AMD. The customer will need to do some research to make sure the monitor is supported. As for the outcome for monitors that are not supported but you flick the switch it doesn't look good.


FreeSync always needed research. The majority monitors are crap. If I try to find a FreeSync monitor with a range of 30-144 along with proper blur reduction and LFC support and IPS panel, that eliminates 95% FreeSync monitors from the market and you have to search hard to find one. G-Sync has spoilt me honestly. Now that I look at the FreeSync market for budget 144hz gaming monitors its hard to find a replacement for the S2716DG at the sub 400 price point I got it for.
 
Associate
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25 Apr 2017
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1,095
Why do people miss the small print. Nvidia have confirmed that they will still allow you to enable it regardless of certification. certificaion does not mean it will or won't work. It just means it passes Nvidia certification programme.
Because the non-certified ones they showed all looked like deal breakers. If you have to hack around with ranges and other stuff to get it to work, it’s a real pain.
 

TNA

TNA

Caporegime
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I believe by smooth he means no weird jarring stutters that you would notice with normal vsync, so from what both of you guys have showed me it seems I would be fine with the frame doubling, I probably wouldnt care about the input lag. I am not a twitch gamer.

With normal vsync if a game drops to 14fps even for a brief moment its jarring and stuttery. Nothing like whats in that video.
Yeah. Pretty sure that’s what he means, it’s how I took it anyway. I am also not a twitch gamer and with g-sync I have no issues with frames dipping. No tearing or stutters :)
 
Associate
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Nottingham
Because the non-certified ones they showed all looked like deal breakers. If you have to hack around with ranges and other stuff to get it to work, it’s a real pain.
the guy who interviewed nvidia asked them why it was blinking and nvidia said; try this monitor with an AMD card and you'l get the same blinking. hence it being a panel issue therefor(again they mentioned this) most of the freesync monitors that don't have issues with amd cards although likely wont see issues on nvidia cards.
therefor 1 or 2 panels having issues with vrr doesnt mean non of the other 398 wont work. its the same issue for both companies. its a panel qc issue more than likely.

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3332198/gaming/nvidia-geforce-freesync-gsync-imcompatible.html
 
Associate
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the guy who interviewed nvidia asked them why it was blinking and nvidia said; try this monitor with an AMD card and you'l get the same blinking. hence it being a panel issue therefor(again they mentioned this) most of the freesync monitors that don't have issues with amd cards although likely wont see issues on nvidia cards.
therefor 1 or 2 panels having issues with vrr doesnt mean non of the other 398 wont work. its the same issue for both companies. its a panel qc issue more than likely.

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3332198/gaming/nvidia-geforce-freesync-gsync-imcompatible.html
That same monitor starts working normally with AMD when the refresh rate is changed to 30-144hz. It’s an issue with the refresh rate.
 
Associate
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That same monitor starts working normally with AMD when the refresh rate is changed to 30-144hz. It’s an issue with the refresh rate.
then they are using the 2:4:1 ratio, interesting choice. i wonder how long it will take them to change that when the thousands of complaints start rolling in or the tech reviewers start highlighting this. i hadnt seen them trying a different range on the same panel with the AMD card.
 
Soldato
Joined
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Edinburgh
Because one of the monitors which was flickering was not flickering on an amd card once the user edited the FreeSync range. On an amd card, the LG monitor flickers when the FreeSync range is 50-144 which is default. It doesn’t flicker when chnaged to 30-14. So nvidia when showcasing that monitor didn’t even try anything to get it to work, so I suspect they aren’t going to wholeheartedly support all FreeSync monitors so they could enforce that 2.4:1 requirement on non validated monitors to weed out crap.
I didn't think they revealed the makes and models in the demo. It sounds more like Nvidia are doing exactly the same as AMD and using the default range as specified in the monitor driver. If the monitor doesn't work with that then the monitor/monitor driver is at fault. As you said, the solution then is to use CRU to override the settings specified in the monitor driver, regardless of GPU.
 
Associate
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1,095
I didn't think they revealed the makes and models in the demo. It sounds more like Nvidia are doing exactly the same as AMD and using the default range as specified in the monitor driver. If the monitor doesn't work with that then the monitor/monitor driver is at fault. As you said, the solution then is to use CRU to override the settings specified in the monitor driver, regardless of GPU.

The base of the monitor is a dead giveaway that its an LG and a user in the YT comments identified the model. The other is confirmed a Samsung by Linus, most likely CHG70 27. The Samsung model which nvidia says doesn't work is working perfectly for many users on AMD so if that's the case, AMD is trying to work around the issues in their drivers while nvidia isn't. The LG model requires messing around with the ranges on both AMD and nvidia to work

What's going to be interesting is whether the prices of FreeSync panels certified as G-Sync compatible go up or whether prices of the monitors with G-Sync modules come down once it becomes known how problematic the FreeSync market is.
 
Associate
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The base of the monitor is a dead giveaway that its an LG and a user in the YT comments identified the model. The other is confirmed a Samsung by Linus, most likely CHG70 27. The Samsung model which nvidia says doesn't work is working perfectly for many users on AMD so if that's the case, AMD is trying to work around the issues in their drivers while nvidia isn't. The LG model requires messing around with the ranges on both AMD and nvidia to work

What's going to be interesting is whether the prices of FreeSync panels certified as G-Sync compatible go up or whether prices of the monitors with G-Sync modules come down once it becomes known how problematic the FreeSync market is.
i predict the prices going up as nvidia wont certify them for free, they still have to make there money on it..
 
Soldato
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Denmark
I believe by smooth he means no weird jarring stutters that you would notice with normal vsync, so from what both of you guys have showed me it seems I would be fine with the frame doubling, I probably wouldn't care about the input lag. I am not a twitch gamer.

With normal vsync if a game drops to 14fps even for a brief moment it's jarring and stuttery. Nothing like what's in that video.

As long as you are happy with the end result yourself, then that is all that matters. However low framerate using freesync or gsync(i've had tons of both) has always been a problem for me. It looks like a blur fest and a power point slide show, to me. Keyword being to me. A lot of people aren't bothered by it like I am and I guess that a very good thing however I just wish that when people are telling about their experiences that they would provide a frame of reference. "Smooth" to one guy is another mans stuttering hell and without proper context it's difficult to make a purchase decision due to it, one of many reasons why I've been through so many monitors before settling on the one I have right now.
 

TNA

TNA

Caporegime
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As long as you are happy with the end result yourself, then that is all that matters. However low framerate using freesync or gsync(i've had tons of both) has always been a problem for me. It looks like a blur fest and a power point slide show, to me. Keyword being to me. A lot of people aren't bothered by it like I am and I guess that a very good thing however I just wish that when people are telling about their experiences that they would provide a frame of reference. "Smooth" to one guy is another mans stuttering hell and without proper context it's difficult to make a purchase decision due to it, one of many reasons why I've been through so many monitors before settling on the one I have right now.

True. 60fps/hz is smooth to me. Others need 240fps/hz or it is a slideshow to them. Very subjective. Once you get used to the higher fps/hz it probably ends up being the case for some. Never was an issue for me as I hardly ever play twitch games. Even though I know higher fps/hz is better, it is not been as big of a deal as image quality to be thus far.
 
Man of Honour
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13 Oct 2006
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True. 60fps/hz is smooth to me. Others need 240fps/hz or it is a slideshow to them. Very subjective. Once you get used to the higher fps/hz it probably ends up being the case for some. Never was an issue for me as I hardly ever play twitch games. Even though I know higher fps/hz is better, it is not been as big of a deal as image quality to be thus far.

60FPS/Hz looks smooth to me but I can feel the input latency no end with V-Sync on - normally I have to go to atleast 80FPS/HZ (without V-Sync) - ideally more like 100-120 (120+ with V-Sync) to get a good feel until G-Sync came along - I'm perfectly happy with most games other than the most fast paced twitch shooters at around 60-70 FPS with G-Sync and can deal with occasional dips to around high 40s-50.

Stuff like The Division (PVE) I'm perfectly happy at around 60 FPS with G-Sync but in days gone by I'd have needed >80 FPS without V-Sync on to get the responsiveness I needed and more like 100+ to minimise the perception of tearing or stutter that was needed without V-Sync.
 

TNA

TNA

Caporegime
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Greater London
60FPS/Hz looks smooth to me but I can feel the input latency no end with V-Sync on - normally I have to go to atleast 80FPS/HZ (without V-Sync) - ideally more like 100-120 (120+ with V-Sync) to get a good feel until G-Sync came along - I'm perfectly happy with most games other than the most fast paced twitch shooters at around 60-70 FPS with G-Sync and can deal with occasional dips to around high 40s-50.

Stuff like The Division (PVE) I'm perfectly happy at around 60 FPS with G-Sync but in days gone by I'd have needed >80 FPS without V-Sync on to get the responsiveness I needed and more like 100+ to minimise the perception of tearing or stutter that was needed without V-Sync.
Yeah. VRR really helps keep things smooth. As I don't do twitch gaming, 60fps is more than enough for it to be enjoyable. Saying that though even playing at 60fps, it would still be a bit better on a higher refresh rate monitor. But I am still more than content with 60hz for the time being until next year when I upgrade to a 120hz OLED TV as a monitor :D

I sit super close to my monitors (probably why I enjoy the high PPI of 4K at 27" so much), it will take some getting used to sitting way back.
 

Stu

Stu

Soldato
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Soldato
Joined
19 Dec 2010
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In laptops for years. They dont put g-sync hardware in so use adaptive sync.

They are not 'NOW' using it, they have done so for a long time.


Well. Mr Pedantic, you are factually incorrect. Adaptive sync only applies to the standard on the display port. Gsync uses the eDP standard on laptops, not Adaptive Sync.
 
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