Poll: Winter Is Coming - HBO's A Game of Thrones [READ WARNING]

[checjb]

Doomcock has done a video expressing how he'd have ended it. I really wish this is the what we'd got.

 

[Shamikebab]

The thing is you can't recommend someone watch a show and stop before the end, who wants to watch an unfinished show?

 

[Rroff]

There are a few people who really are that talented, requiring minimal training. Within a few short sentences of her first dancing lesson, Arya was already grasping the concepts and picking everything up.

Annoyingly there are people like that - friend of mine is a natural behind the wheel - never been taught the techniques - just cool, confident precision. First time we ever went go-carting he matched the track record, Nurburgring nails the late apexes first time, get in a car with somewhat complicated systems and he'll just drive off mid being explained as if he has been operating them all his life

 

[ttaskmaster]

NVM

 

[marl]

I have just watched the final episode and simply cannot believe how bad it was! The final season's story had more perforations than a Tetley tea-bag, and the attempt at humour at the end was completely out of context with what had went before.

Whoever sanctioned this ending has shot themselves in the foot because it has completely destroyed any re-watch value for me. As for spin-off series - I'll be in no hurry to watch them!

This show deserved a far better ending!

 

[Rimsy]

After managing to avoid all spoilers I managed to finish ep 6 last night and still feel a bit sad about how it all wound up. Such a wasted opportunity on so many levels and genuinely feel bad for the actors who invested a decade of their lives only to have their memories maligned by such terrible story telling.
No wonder Kit Harrington is in some kind of mental clinic!

 

[Glanza]

 

[CaptainRAVE]

Wait, they've submitted the finale for a Best Writing Emmy. Haha. Hahahaha. I hope Chernobyl blows this rubbish out of the water.

 

[Warbie]

Other than the lack of explanation for the Ice King, I loved the latest season and thought it ended well. I've read some legitimate gripes - which, for the most part, don't bother me - but there's an awful lot of following the herd bandwaggoning going on. Which isn't surprising, being the internet and all. Now they can all get back to making screw EA memes.

 

[Richdog]

Other than the lack of explanation for the Ice King, I loved the latest season and thought it ended well. I've read some legitimate gripes - which, for the most part, don't bother me - but there's an awful lot of following the herd bandwaggoning going on. Which isn't surprising, being the internet and all. Now they can all get back to making screw EA memes.

'Following the herd', are you actually serious? Season 8 us being near-universally panned by critics and fans. it's not her, it is simply an overwhelming majority of people recognizing terrible writing and an injustice to the series.

There seem to be a minority of people with taste so unbelievably awful that they cannot even recognise how bad it is. In some ways I envy them, being spared this kind of crushing dissappointment.

 

[chroniclard]

Jeez, still raging, move on, S8 wasn't great, wasn't as bad as made out. I enjoyed it, start to finish, i am just going to ignore the bad and take the plenty of good.

 

[Richdog]

I enjoyed it, start to finish, i am just going to ignore the bad and take the plenty of good.

Like I said, I envy people like you who don't let critical taste and judgement get in the way of them enjoying something!

 

[chroniclard]

Its easy, just learn to rise above your rage at the bad bits and appreciate what was good, you are just journeying towards the dark side with your hate.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

I loved the latest season and thought it ended well.

Your meant to put /sarcasm at the bottom of your post, but I guess it is obvious from this statement

When I want a good laugh on a slow day, I watch this again

 

[Warbie]

'Following the herd', are you actually serious? Season 8 us being near-universally panned by critics and fans. it's not her, it is simply an overwhelming majority of people recognizing terrible writing and an injustice to the series.

For every person with a valid point there's 10 that wanted Jon Snow fighting a dragon on top of a mountain. Despite the flaws, I was captivated by the last 4 episodes and really had no issue with the conclusion. And the writing was never that great to begin with. Good, sure, and still one of my favourite shows, but no where near the decline that some people are in arms about.

 

[Shamikebab]

That pitch meeting is brilliant

 

[Washout]

'Following the herd', are you actually serious? Season 8 us being near-universally panned by critics and fans. it's not her, it is simply an overwhelming majority of people recognizing terrible writing and an injustice to the series.

There seem to be a minority of people with taste so unbelievably awful that they cannot even recognise how bad it is. In some ways I envy them, being spared this kind of crushing dissappointment.

Well, the herd isn't always right. Look at the world of politics atm...

It's the fact you seem to froth about every single element that seems bizarre. Some of those elements being quite out of their control (book plot points that no matter how well/badly executed you'd seemingly hate). You said ep 4 was the worst ep ever at the time and listed a stream of mostly nonsense for the reasons. So wound up in your own invective you're actively looking for reasons to hate it. Critique the bad elements by all means, but you're way ott with most of it.

Love trying to look at things from the show runners perspective. What were they trying to achieve? Why did some of it fail? Is some of the criticism way ott? (yup).

You won't find anyone saying the last season was on par with the best of previous seasons. It was severely hamstrung by the reduced episode count. Where as it used to be 4-5 episodes of exposition with some small payoffs and then one humdinger of pure payoff this season was designed to be pure payoff with very little exposition.
I guess they thought that being in the endgame the previous 7 seasons were the buildup. TBH can see the rationale too.

This season didn't quite work for a huge amount of people because of the Dany flip; everything that led to it and then followed. Obviously a book plot point they had to have in. Just like having Jon save the world by killing her and not being the one to finish the White Walkers off.
Her flip was meant to be one of those GoT moments: Ned getting head cut off, Red Wedding, Viper having his head crushed. Meant to take the audience (book or show) by relative surprise. A surprise when you look back on you think; ah the signs were there. Trouble is lots of people can't accept her flipping quite so much (although in real life folk 'go postal' after experiencing far less trauma!).
Not sure what they could do to sell that flip while still making it a surprise in line with the previous ones the show is famous for?

Throw in some errors of judgement during the season for sfx shots (machine gun sniper ballista's, from ships a dragon should spot in one ep, lame ducks the next. Showing 95% of the Dothraki die and then later... not) and some disappointing choices (especially tactical which really annoyingly is superficial because for the plot it doesn't matter) for ep 3 along with making Bran useless when he should have been a key component of taking down the NK (and so making him a more palatable choice for King later) and you've got some proper arguments for where they failed. Oh yeah, and Euron. **** that guy.

Now it's all over lets list what we think they did well:

• Tyrion - best his character has been since season 4. Some brilliant acting/dialog (hello writers), particularly with Jaime.
• Ep 2, up there as one of my favs. All the chars together for once and interacting brilliantly. Oh, hello crappy writers again!
• Jaime and Cersei ending. Some hated it; I actually liked seeing her laid bare again and reduced to a scared woman. The twins leaving the world together was perfect. Always found it a bit weird with those hoping to see a pregnant woman getting ripped apart by a dragon or having some other horrific death but to each their own!
  From Jaimes perspective, sure he failed by going back to her - but does it matter? It doesn't undo his character development at all. He is a different man. As the alt-shift-x review mentions. The books often point out that a mans worth is based on how he lived, not how he died.
• Brienne's whole arc: Getting to be what she always wanted to be, a knight and then to become head of the Kings Guard was perfect. Her finishing Jaimes deeds in the white book was again, a perfect book-end for both characters.
• Tormund - everything about Tormund really.
• Arya being the one to finish the WW threat. They made a bit of a mess of that episode for a lot of things despite it looking amazing. I think almost too ambitious for a TV show. But Arya killing him made sense. Her whole arc was about her ability to face death so her killing the literal avatar of death was fitting. Subverting peoples expectations that it was Jons destiny to save the world (it still was but the frothers didn't know it at the time).
• Production, music etc - hats off. Most movies don't look near as good with much larger budgets and only having a couple hours of film to do.
• Jon and Dany ending - once you accept her flip. I liked Jon was indeed the 'prince that was reborn' azhor ahai who saved the world by plunging a dagger into his lovers heart. Dany being taken by Drogon east and Jon going north. Both back to were they belong.
  

The aftereffects of that were again curtailed by it being a TV show and I feel for the makers. The main story is done but you could do another season with the fallout from Jon killing her. Stuff that in a book can be done (scouring of the shire) but in a visual medium what do you do?
Would take a couple hours of episode to satisfactorily explain why the dothraki and unsullied didn't kill him. Did they not know until later? etc etc. There's 15 mins of runtime left, the main story has ended, having another episode would not work. So they don't show it - cut to the day of the trial instead weeks later.

Anyway, I think those 6 episodes, despite their flaws may be more favourably thought of by later viewers who get to have the whole story in one go. The previous seasons becoming the exposition we normally expect during a season. Having a 2 year wait (which totally undermines people saying the makers wanted to rush the ending) just served to build expectations to ridiculous amounts.

The true, full book story may eventually come out. But GRRM has the same issue with over hyped fans expecting nothing less than perfection which will leave most of those disappointed. Little wonder it's been 7 or 8 years since the last. After seeing the TV show fallout who can be bothered?

 

[SixTwoSix]

Good, sure, and still one of my favourite shows, but no where near the decline that some people are in arms about.

There is a clear and observable decline in both Littlefinger and Varys characters at the point in which the show overtook the books. They were brilliant, manipulative and sharp individuals earlier on virtually reduced to cardboard cutouts that made silly decisions and mistakes just to push the story on.

 

[Richdog]

Well, the herd isn't always right. Look at the world of politics atm...

It's the fact you seem to froth about every single element that seems bizarre. Some of those elements being quite out of their control (book plot points that no matter how well/badly executed you'd seemingly hate). You said ep 4 was the worst ep ever at the time and listed a stream of mostly nonsense for the reasons. So wound up in your own invective you're actively looking for reasons to hate it. Critique the bad elements by all means, but you're way ott with most of it.

Love trying to look at things from the show runners perspective. What were they trying to achieve? Why did some of it fail? Is some of the criticism way ott? (yup).

You won't find anyone saying the last season was on par with the best of previous seasons. It was severely hamstrung by the reduced episode count. Where as it used to be 4-5 episodes of exposition with some small payoffs and then one humdinger of pure payoff this season was designed to be pure payoff with very little exposition.
I guess they thought that being in the endgame the previous 7 seasons were the buildup. TBH can see the rationale too.

This season didn't quite work for a huge amount of people because of the Dany flip; everything that led to it and then followed. Obviously a book plot point they had to have in. Just like having Jon save the world by killing her and not being the one to finish the White Walkers off.
Her flip was meant to be one of those GoT moments: Ned getting head cut off, Red Wedding, Viper having his head crushed. Meant to take the audience (book or show) by relative surprise. A surprise when you look back on you think; ah the signs were there. Trouble is lots of people can't accept her flipping quite so much (although in real life folk 'go postal' after experiencing far less trauma!).
Not sure what they could do to sell that flip while still making it a surprise in line with the previous ones the show is famous for?

Throw in some errors of judgement during the season for sfx shots (machine gun sniper ballista's, from ships a dragon should spot in one ep, lame ducks the next. Showing 95% of the Dothraki die and then later... not) and some disappointing choices (especially tactical which really annoyingly is superficial because for the plot it doesn't matter) for ep 3 along with making Bran useless when he should have been a key component of taking down the NK (and so making him a more palatable choice for King later) and you've got some proper arguments for where they failed. Oh yeah, and Euron. **** that guy.

Now it's all over lets list what we think they did well:

• Tyrion - best his character has been since season 4. Some brilliant acting/dialog (hello writers), particularly with Jaime.
• Ep 2, up there as one of my favs. All the chars together for once and interacting brilliantly. Oh, hello crappy writers again!
• Jaime and Cersei ending. Some hated it; I actually liked seeing her laid bare again and reduced to a scared woman. The twins leaving the world together was perfect. Always found it a bit weird with those hoping to see a pregnant woman getting ripped apart by a dragon or having some other horrific death but to each their own!
  From Jaimes perspective, sure he failed by going back to her - but does it matter? It doesn't undo his character development at all. He is a different man. As the alt-shift-x review mentions. The books often point out that a mans worth is based on how he lived, not how he died.
• Brienne's whole arc: Getting to be what she always wanted to be, a knight and then to become head of the Kings Guard was perfect. Her finishing Jaimes deeds in the white book was again, a perfect book-end for both characters.
• Tormund - everything about Tormund really.
• Arya being the one to finish the WW threat. They made a bit of a mess of that episode for a lot of things despite it looking amazing. I think almost too ambitious for a TV show. But Arya killing him made sense. Her whole arc was about her ability to face death so her killing the literal avatar of death was fitting. Subverting peoples expectations that it was Jons destiny to save the world (it still was but the frothers didn't know it at the time).
• Production, music etc - hats off. Most movies don't look near as good with much larger budgets and only having a couple hours of film to do.
• Jon and Dany ending - once you accept her flip. I liked Jon was indeed the 'prince that was reborn' azhor ahai who saved the world by plunging a dagger into his lovers heart. Dany being taken by Drogon east and Jon going north. Both back to were they belong.

The aftereffects of that were again curtailed by it being a TV show and I feel for the makers. The main story is done but you could do another season with the fallout from Jon killing her. Stuff that in a book can be done (scouring of the shire) but in a visual medium what do you do?
Would take a couple hours of episode to satisfactorily explain why the dothraki and unsullied didn't kill him. Did they not know until later? etc etc. There's 15 mins of runtime left, the main story has ended, having another episode would not work. So they don't show it - cut to the day of the trial instead weeks later.

Anyway, I think those 6 episodes, despite their flaws may be more favourably thought of by later viewers who get to have the whole story in one go. The previous seasons becoming the exposition we normally expect during a season. Having a 2 year wait (which totally undermines people saying the makers wanted to rush the ending) just served to build expectations to ridiculous amounts.

The true, full book story may eventually come out. But GRRM has the same issue with over hyped fans expecting nothing less than perfection which will leave most of those disappointed. Little wonder it's been 7 or 8 years since the last. After seeing the TV show fallout who can be bothered?

As the old saying goes... there is no accounting for taste. Feel feel free to waffle your defence of the show and thus exhibit your poor critical judgement for the forum to see and i will sit back happy in the knowledge that like most of the fanbase I recognise atrocious writing and/or directing (regardless of whether it is from D&D or GRR) when I see it.

PS: I did not say every episode was completely awful, episode 2 was at least decent.

 

[ttaskmaster]

NVM