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AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

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I still think they will do 3 tiers again (AMD)
There is the current 5700 which will become something like the low end 6500 or 6600 - then the navi2 parts start at say 6800, 6800xt then the 6900 monster.
6800 non xt, say 2080 super or within sniffing distance of the 2080ti -
6800xt = 2080ti + 10%
Then big big navi 6900 at 2080ti +35-40% - perhaps even an XT version of this with a water cooler ect for another 10%

Anything less and its another year of fail for AMDs GPU division at the top end.
 
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I still think they will do 3 tiers again (AMD)
There is the current 5700 which will become something like the low end 6500 or 6600 - then the navi2 parts start at say 6800, 6800xt then the 6900 monster.
6800 non xt, say 2080 super or within sniffing distance of the 2080ti -
6800xt = 2080ti + 10%
Then big big navi 6900 at 2080ti +35-40% - perhaps even an XT version of this with a water cooler ect for another 10%

Anything less and its another year of fail for AMDs GPU division at the top end.

There is one die which was rumoured which was around the current size of Navi10 but has RT. But what would be a bigger fail is if we don't have a GPU with GTX1080TI level performance at 1080p at under £300. That would only be around 20% extra performance over a 5600XT.
 
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Maybe it will magically run well on all GPUs and be massively scaleable. You can spend your Ampere monies on gold plating your RTX2070 then,propa big money style! :p



It's just really weird,you don't seem many of these really big games sponsored by AMD anymore,so maybe they are just minimising their expenditure on desktop. It wouldn't surprise me if RDNA2 was actually instigated due to requirements MS and Sony had,and we are just getting a refreshed line because it was cost effective to do so.

As i illuded to AMD care less about Desktop these days, they aim to ram their technology into every indirect ecosystem going, that bypasses this very fickle community with its brand loyalties, and this is working for them, AMD will make 10 times as much from these new consoles than they will from the ~20% market share they have with us.
 
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It's just really weird,you don't seem many of these really big games sponsored by AMD anymore,so maybe they are just minimising their expenditure on desktop. It wouldn't surprise me if RDNA2 was actually instigated due to requirements MS and Sony had,and we are just getting a refreshed line because it was cost effective to do so.

Yeah from a business perspective its likely the internal motive. To be fair though, if you had many years playing second fiddle to Intel and nVidia where they try to lock you out of the market and bribe the hell out of everyone so its taken as the way it is - then you steal the console segment making the hardware, it only makes sense to base on that?
 
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If AMD is being locked out from optimizing (or gameswork gimped) any game let alone CP2077 they need to setup a press brief before benchmarks are released. That will buffet results and create disclaimers to those results. AMD has done it before.
 
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As i illuded to AMD care less about Desktop these days, they aim to ram their technology into every indirect ecosystem going, that bypasses this very fickle community with its brand loyalties, and this is working for them, AMD will make 10 times as much from these new consoles than they will from the ~20% market share they have with us.
Yeah from a business perspective its likely the internal motive. To be fair though, if you had many years playing second fiddle to Intel and nVidia where they try to lock you out of the market and bribe the hell out of everyone so its taken as the way it is - then you steal the console segment making the hardware, it only makes sense to base on that?

I do think AMD should target some of these bigger games - if not just for the GPU performance,but to get better CPU performance too. A GPU must still cost millions of USD to tape out,etc so its seems weird for them not to bother.
 
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I do think AMD should target some of these bigger games

I get your point but the reality is if you are not blinded by the AAA games and know that benchmarks are easily weighted due to engine/brand/sponsor stuff then as long as the AMD card has enough meat to grunt the required horsepower, the majority of indie titles or mods that are played by the masses should be able to understand that. :p
 
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CDPR on record,says the version for the new generation consoles is 2021,ie,the one made with RDNA2 in mind. So the delay isn't for the new consoles,its for Ampere. Then look back at the launch of W3. Maxwell did the best by far,but Kepler and GCN based cards had problems. These took months to solve,because CDPR had basically put in stuff,which was made specifically with Maxwell in mind,just two months before release. Months later Nvidia released "better drivers" and CDPR put in extra menu options,etc. Nvidia even bundled W3 with some of its Maxwell GPUs.

So IMHO,Ampere is the priority for Cyberpunk 2077(well at least in 2020),and the other GPUs will have to wait. Don't you think its weird CDPR is making the RTX2080TI look rather weak in it's demos?? They are actively working with Nvidia on this game,so their marketing wouldn't want to undersell their best GPU months before launch. Now imagine,if they demo the new RTX3080TI and its twice as quick,etc....I see where this is going.

I love to be wrong,but money talks! :p

The delay is to try and fix the game on the current gen consoles, poor Xbox probably struggling at 600p

As for your Ncidia conspiracy theories - none of this is new, many other RTX games have similiar performance with al RT features enabled and devs still use it because graphics sells games not framerate - stay off the cool aid, not everything is a conspiracy theory by Nvidia.
 
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There is one die which was rumoured which was around the current size of Navi10 but has RT. But what would be a bigger fail is if we don't have a GPU with GTX1080TI level performance at 1080p at under £300. That would only be around 20% extra performance over a 5600XT.

The Xbox series S has a 4tflop rdna2 gpu - so clearly AMD has some very small Rdna2 cards planned
 
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I don't know what the preview articles had said but given history, this new AMD card (5900XT) i think will be 2080ti speed for £499inc VAT. I doubt it will be 15% quicker than a 2080ti but I don't really care if it is.

Considering the cheapest 2080ti dual-fan i can find is £1,077inc vat.
That would probably work but I suspect that will equate to next gen console performance or thereabouts given other console advances. I also want to believe that but we've effectively 'skipped' a generation due to Nvidia's 'The way you're meant to be played' pricing.
 
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The delay is to try and fix the game on the current gen consoles, poor Xbox probably struggling at 600p

As for your Ncidia conspiracy theories - none of this is new, many other RTX games have similiar performance with al RT features enabled and devs still use it because graphics sells games not framerate - stay off the cool aid, not everything is a conspiracy theory by Nvidia.

Bless, you are still full of hope! :p

Some of us have seen the tricks played by most of the companies over the last 20 years. Remember,how you also talk about Intel and their tricks against AMD,well Nvidia does it also. Nvidia is not your mate and neither is AMD - they are here to sell new products. CDPR never delayed a game for 3 months to make better console performance according to forums,and never used that time to add Gameworks features instead 2 months before launch. None of the X87 PhysX stuff,tessellation,etc. Never happened.The tech press all imagined it.

Everyone,Grim5 says all the Turing GPUs will run Cyberpunk 2077 fine,so there is no need to buy Ampere,and if Ampere runs it much better and Turing does not its a coolaid conspiracy theory. It was the way it was meant to be played.

:p

Every RTX game runs at under 1080p native resolution,at well under 60FPS(close to 30fps in many parts) on a £1000 GPU,and needs upscaling to get to 1080p. Those reviewers had it all so wrong with their reviews. Metro:Exodus and Control all need upscaling at 1080p apparently.

Also PC is not about FPS,that is why gamers don't buy expensive overclocked CPUs,and 120/144HZ/240HZ monitors don't exist,as PC is all about cinematic gaming with 30FPS lows,like consoles. Locked 60FPS,who wants that? I remember a bloke called Rollo once who was a fountain of knowledge who gave me such insights.

Phew,I was worried there for a second. I take it all back,all GPUs will run this game perfectly fine,and a potato CPU will be OK.

:p

The Xbox series S has a 4tflop rdna2 gpu - so clearly AMD has some very small Rdna2 cards planned

Or they will repurpose RDNA1....I doubt it will be made to target any kind of RT. AMD has a habit of mixing and matching designs for each generation nowadays. RDNA1 has partial GCN features,so it should make porting over existing games a bit easier.

I get your point but the reality is if you are not blinded by the AAA games and know that benchmarks are easily weighted due to engine/brand/sponsor stuff then as long as the AMD card has enough meat to grunt the required horsepower, the majority of indie titles or mods that are played by the masses should be able to understand that. :p

You mean all the reviews which will test this game,etc and probably see not so great launch performance. There is no point sponsoring short FPS games which people forget about after a few months,when Nvidia is sponsoring many RPG games and MMOs,which people play for 100s or 1000s of hours. Hence reviewers keep them in the review lists much longer. Look at Unreal Engine?? Nvidia forged very close links with Epic,and as a result lots of Indie games,will show better performance natively on UE4 as it integrates a ton of Nvidia specific features. You need to optimise for AMD on the PC version. Only this year,has there some movement on trying to incorporate TressFX into UE4.

I don't understand them at times,they have more money now,and they need to make the most of their GPU investments. If not they need to brute force performance,which means they need to push GPUs more,meaning more power consumption,etc.

The worst thing is half the battle is already won as this is on the new consoles - AMD really does not leverage it's console wins as well as they should. Thank goodness(for them) Nvidia didn't have one of the home consoles,otherwise they would be in deeper trouble.
 
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Soldato
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The delay is to try and fix the game on the current gen consoles, poor Xbox probably struggling at 600p

As for your Ncidia conspiracy theories - none of this is new, many other RTX games have similiar performance with al RT features enabled and devs still use it because graphics sells games not framerate - stay off the cool aid, not everything is a conspiracy theory by Nvidia.

You are right on one point, the game isn't been delayed because of that Nvidia conspiracy theory nonsense. But it doesn't seem to be delayed because of problems with the consoles either.

The most plausible explanation for the delay is they they are timing the release to coincide with the next gen console releases. Which is what most reasonable people seem to be suggesting on the various forums and tech sites. That extra time does give them a chance to iron out some more of the bugs that are inevitable in game releases these days and more so in a game as ambitious as this one.

The consoles won't have the full next gen graphics until an update in 2021 but, they will have a day one patch that will give them better graphics than the older consoles.
 
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"We've been working with CD Projeckt Red from the beginning," said Huddy. "We've been giving them detailed feedback all the way through. Around two months before release, or thereabouts, the GameWorks code arrived with HairWorks, and it completely sabotaged our performance as far as we're concerned. We were running well before that... it's wrecked our performance, almost as if it was put in to achieve that goal."!

Yeah, played with those disabled and ran fine. Hairworks didn't add that much (for me), since the camera was far away from the action and the performances wast lost for nothing.
 
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You mean all the reviews which will test this game,etc and probably see not so great launch performance. There is no point sponsoring short FPS games which people forget about after a few months,when Nvidia is sponsoring many RPG games and MMOs,which people play for 100s or 1000s of hours. Hence reviewers keep them in the review lists much longer. Look at Unreal Engine?? Nvidia forged very close links with Epic,and as a result lots of Indie games,will show better performance natively on UE4 as it integrates a ton of Nvidia specific features. You need to optimise for AMD on the PC version. Only this year,has there some movement on trying to incorporate TressFX into UE4.

Basically we have to live with it yes. AMD are not going to pour the funds into the trap as we all know by now that its impossible to crack the mindset sewn in legacy years. I would think their only chance will be when a GPU actually smashes nvidia hard enough that they can gloat they are better by a margin any fanboy cant defend.

You look at AMD already offering loads of free games using codes with GPU sales and people still go nvidia even for cards that are blatantly better (RX570 > 1050/1650).
 
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Yeah, played with those disabled and ran fine. Hairworks didn't add that much (for me), since the camera was far away from the action and the performances wast lost for nothing.

I turn off any and all hair simulation where it's from Nvidia or amd - it's one of the more pointless graphics options ever invented
 
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That would probably work but I suspect that will equate to next gen console performance or thereabouts given other console advances.

I would agree there, no bad thing, I would be quite happy with that tbh with one eyeball on being able to remove the power limit on the PC cards.
 
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Basically we have to live with it yes. AMD are not going to pour the funds into the trap as we all know by now that its impossible to crack the mindset sewn in legacy years. I would think their only chance will be when a GPU actually smashes nvidia hard enough that they can gloat they are better by a margin any fanboy cant defend.

You look at AMD already offering loads of free games using codes with GPU sales and people still go nvidia even for cards that are blatantly better (RX570 > 1050/1650).

But the problem is they really need to target some of these titles,because ultimately it's not doing them favours in terms of performance. Not only GPU performance but CPU performance.

Certain titles will be played for years...remember WoW....for years AMD didn't bother improving performance in a game with a huge playerbase. Hence for years,Nvidia was the preferred choice for the game! If you are targetting game sponsorships and have limited resources,its best to choose wisely. You can see how much defence by some of this game and CDPR in it's current state,to show how well Nvidia knows to target it's sponsorship.
 
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bru

bru

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All this whining and conspiracy nonsense, AMD just need to give us a GPU that is good at the basics and in this day and age that means DXR.

If they do very well in DXR based benchmarks then they will be on to a winner, if of course they are nowhere near as fast at DXR based ray tracing than the competition, then NVidia will still be the the go to guys.
 
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The "next generation" console version of Cyberpunk 2077 is only coming in 2021 according to CDPR. So this delay is more for Ampere. So I have little faith that Pascal,Turing or RDNA1 GPUs will look OK at launch. I would loved to be proven wrong,but I suspect Ampere will be the GPU of choice for the game. Then in 2021,probably things will look "better" for others. Nvidia will make sure they will have a magical driver fix months later,and CDPR some magical update during the same period.

^That is the simple comment which got some here sprouting its a conspiracy. This is what exactly happned with W3. Nvidia literally released a driver months after launch for Kepler,and CDPR updated the game months after launch,with new settings. They literally delayed the game for 3 months,and implemented Gameworks features,two months prior to release.The tech press covered all of this.

Turing is running this game poorly just 4 months prior to launch,the proper console version is next year,and Nvidia is sponsoring the game. So what do you think is coming also this year.....Ampere. So the experts here think Ampere isn't being optimised for? Nvidia needs time to get drivers upto scratch,etc so they don't repeat the Turing launch. It's obviously a conspiracy!

So what are you all saying,a game sponsored by Nvidia is NOT going to run best on Ampere?? What a conspiracy that is! Just,wow,its right out there with the Lizard people!

Some of you are incredibly gullible,if you think game sponsorships don't exist for selling new GPUs. It shows a distinct lack of critical understanding,when people who worked for these programmes at AMD/Nvidia pretty much in their own CVs,etc say that is why they do it. Only hardware enthusiasts on tech forums,think it doesn't work that way.

Lots of people pointed out those things mentioned,the tech press confirmed it,yet it's quickly forgotten,and the same cycle happens again and again.

What I find funny is some of you do this all the time.....for years and years you keep saying conspiracy and yet the same things happen all the time. Then when it happens you all just deflect and ignore it happens and continue onwards. So you are trapped in your own echo chambers. I still remember people said that when the Titan was released,it would eventually mean AMD/Nvidia targetting higher and higher price points,pushing up midrange GPU price-points,etc. The response was it's a conspiracy,all rubbish. Yet it transpired.
 
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All this whining and conspiracy nonsense, AMD just need to give us a GPU that is good at the basics and in this day and age that means DXR.

If they do very well in DXR based benchmarks then they will be on to a winner, if of course they are nowhere near as fast at DXR based ray tracing than the competition, then NVidia will still be the the go to guys.

Historically that has not been true, AMD has had the fastest cards while also being cheaper, it made little difference to the AMD - Nvidia sales ratio.

Most people want more competitive AMD cards so they can buy cheaper Nvidia cards, that's not conducive to AMD's bottom line.
 
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