10GB vram enough for the 3080? Discuss..

[Godhand007]

Yup it improves workflows for the developers tenfold:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiO38cqBlWU&t=312s

Digital foundry got the developers of metro to send them their workflows of the old method vs the new method, as you can see the time and effort saved is substantial. Very impressive how it even runs better than the original too. Would love to see more ray tracing only games but given that consoles/amd lack the capability, sadly we'll be held back.

So maybe they went with RT implementation instead of fixing other stuff because it was easy or Nvidia was helping/sponsoring them or maybe a bit of both. I disagree that consoles and AMD are holding back RT. In Metro EE standard benchmark with all RT settings, RX 6900 XT nearly matches RTX 3080. This benchmark is supposed to be more rigorous than most of the game. Now if you absolutely limit performance by RT, Hairworks, Physx and then reduce textures/other quality settings to ultra you will get around 19% better performance on RTX 3080 (those minimums might be due to Gameworks stuff like Hairwaroks though not sure). Also, the new Spiderman game on console/s was one of the better implementations of RT.

Some of the textures did let metro enhanced down for me too, very disappointing that they didn't did do a better job here especially as the game didn't seem heavy on vram, iirc, was only 6.5-7.5gb vram being used on my 3080.... but every time the lighting came in to play, I was in awe, this area just had my jaw dropping throughout:



Absolutely stunning in motion and added so much to the atmosphere.

Would love to see more old games remastered with ray tracing like mad max, batman arkham games.

Agree, RT looks good in Metro EE. The rest of the stuff in the game is not worth bothering about.

 

[Wrinkly]

That DF video comparing shadows, devs are still nerfing non RT to make RT look better, the non RT shadows are like if you go in gta 5 and set shadow quality to low, they basically locking high shadow details to RT only now. This is what I dont like, the games been played to sell the feature, we should be seeing non RT at its best vs RT at its best.

For the past couple of decades, non realtime shadows have been rendered using prebaked RT. Using realtime RT for shadows also means you don't waste artist's time prebaking. Full RT will also lead to far more dynamic worlds as objects don't have to be glued down due to prebaked lighting. DF cover shadows in CP2077 very well -

 

[Wrinkly]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsBrkLq31eM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IPRjzrHvak

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1bKkUsrs_c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al2O7XGURqM

oh golden part

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAZ9A26i8ZI

You can embed video by using -

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Simply replace ### with the unique video ID e.g. PsBrkLq31eM.

 

[oguzsoso]

You can embed video by using -

[MEDIA=youtube]###[/MEDIA]

Simply replace ### with the unique video ID e.g. PsBrkLq31eM.

Thank you a lot for the information,

 

[4k4uNuNu]

I find RT to be a bit like VR, you don't get to experience it from screenshots. Even video doesn't give the full experience due to you not having control.

Here at 9:10 you can clearly see why the area is lit as it is due to other sources of light, which just isn't apparent from the screenshot.

That definitely adds context to the right hand side screenshot, but again I have to ask, why are they SO different? A game should have an art direction just like movies, the two screenshots could be two completely different games, or at least the same game but one modded.

We've got a long way to go with not just the ray tracing technology, but also how it is utilized and applied in an artistic way.

I feel like there are a hundred discussions going on in this thread, and I'm not helping lol. Nvida, what have you wrought, with this 10gb vram limit and ray tracing tech.

 

[chrcoluk]

For the past couple of decades, non realtime shadows have been rendered using prebaked RT. Using realtime RT for shadows also means you don't waste artist's time prebaking. Full RT will also lead to far more dynamic worlds as objects don't have to be glued down due to prebaked lighting. DF cover shadows in CP2077 very well -

Ahh so the real benefit is it saves developer resources (as well as selling new hardware)?

 

[nvidiamd]

I see we still have certain people blaming games rather than their system/user error



Already been debunked many times, look at the patch notes for the game and by people who posted videos showing their play through in that area. Also, in the video I posted a while back of a 6800xt vs 3080 (with the latest patch), it actually looked like the 6800xt was having issues loading some textures compared to the 3080 but of course, no one responded to that

You know if you keep repeating that it has been debunked, it doesn't mean the game won't go above 10Gb. This is from march 31st:

And about DLSS. Will you say that if FSR will run the game 2X or 2.5X faster, then AMD RT performance is also increasing? Maybe it will be faster than the 3080 at "1440p". Is fake res a good metrics for a card RT performance?

The truth is both cards suck at Ray Tracing and you have to use all kinds of tricks to be able to have a playable rate. The biggest trick being denoising and no one talks about it because Nvidia wants you to think that you play ray traced games. Yet the denoising is doing 99% of the work. The image you admire so much is constructed from very,very low samples of ray tracing, you need at least 100 times that many samples to claim that a image is ray traced. Most of it is an approximation of how the image will look like if you were able to use 100 or 1000 times more rays.

And about game ratings: The CP nice metacritic score is based on press reviews, not gamers reviews. On gamers reviews it has 71 on Metacritic and 75 or so on Steam. Which is a disaster for a AAA game, not to mention a game with top graphics.
It looks like for most people, the gameplay is still more important though, that's why i gave two examples of games with lower graphics but huge scores on Steam.

 

[Godhand007]

You know if you keep repeating that it has been debunked, it doesn't mean the game won't go above 10Gb. This is from march 31st:

And about DLSS. Will you say that if FSR will run the game 2X or 2.5X faster, then AMD RT performance is also increasing? Maybe it will be faster than the 3080 at "1440p". Is fake res a good metrics for a card RT performance?

The truth is both cards suck at Ray Tracing and you have to use all kinds of tricks to be able to have a playable rate. The biggest trick being denoising and no one talks about it because Nvidia wants you to think that you play ray traced games. Yet the denoising is doing 99% of the work. The image you admire so much is constructed from very,very low samples of ray tracing, you need at least 100 times that many samples to claim that a image is ray traced. Most of it is an approximation of how the image will look like if you were able to use 100 or 1000 times more rays.

And about game ratings: The CP nice metacritic score is based on press reviews, not gamers reviews. On gamers reviews it has 71 on Metacritic and 75 or so on Steam. Which is a disaster for a AAA game, not to mention a game with top graphics.
It looks like for most people, the gameplay is still more important though, that's why i gave two examples of games with lower graphics but huge scores on Steam.

Ray Tracing may be the best thing out there but anyone who defends Cyberpunk as an overall good game is biased to the hilt. CD Project Red is facing lawsuits/criminal charges and Sony has thrown them out of their Playstore. These are not hallmarks of a great game. Also, Graphically I don't find Cyberpunk to be that impressive; So many textures issues, bad character models, lighting which sometimes looks awkward (with Ray Tracing on/off), LOD issues, and there is an overall plastic look to the game.

 

[Nexus18]

You know if you keep repeating that it has been debunked, it doesn't mean the game won't go above 10Gb. This is from march 31st:

And about DLSS. Will you say that if FSR will run the game 2X or 2.5X faster, then AMD RT performance is also increasing? Maybe it will be faster than the 3080 at "1440p". Is fake res a good metrics for a card RT performance?

The truth is both cards suck at Ray Tracing and you have to use all kinds of tricks to be able to have a playable rate. The biggest trick being denoising and no one talks about it because Nvidia wants you to think that you play ray traced games. Yet the denoising is doing 99% of the work. The image you admire so much is constructed from very,very low samples of ray tracing, you need at least 100 times that many samples to claim that a image is ray traced. Most of it is an approximation of how the image will look like if you were able to use 100 or 1000 times more rays.

And about game ratings: The CP nice metacritic score is based on press reviews, not gamers reviews. On gamers reviews it has 71 on Metacritic and 75 or so on Steam. Which is a disaster for a AAA game, not to mention a game with top graphics.
It looks like for most people, the gameplay is still more important though, that's why i gave two examples of games with lower graphics but huge scores on Steam.

Ok and if the game is using more vram does that mean it is causing problems with perf? See the resident evil village video a couple of pages back where the 6800xt is using more vram yet the 3080 is using less and still performing better when ray tracing is turned on and there are no texture issues with it.

If Amd fsr can bring that much performance with same quality as dlss quality setting then I am all for it as it is good for us all if we want more ray traced games. Also, iirc, rdna 2 is still 2 times slower than ampere in ray tracing (without dlss) so performance will never quite match ampere.

Guessing you haven't played metro? It plays very well without any dlss (@3440x1440), although I used it anyway as why not, IQ is just as good as native, if not better because it offers better AA than TAA as per DF video to back this up.

Again, as per earlier discussion, what's it matter if the end result looks stunning? Who cares.

In your opinion that is. Just because you and others don't like the game doesn't mean others have to have the same opinion... it was the goty for me and a lot of other people (not exactly hard tbf given the **** amount of games over the last year), even when I played it through first time on my vega 56 and my feelings felt the exact same for the game with a 3080 but with ray tracing, it added even more to the experience second time round. Surely if the game was as bad as you and others make it out, we would be seeing user scores like godfall? Also, just had a look at steam, it's actually not bad given the sheer amount of reviews it has....



Genuine question, have you played cyberpunk or are you one of these people who has just watched youtube footage and jumped on the bandwagon? If the game style/setting is even remotely of interest, I suggest giving it a go yourself, you might be pleasantly surprised.

Ray traced shadows in CP aren't great but the lighting and especially reflections are stunning and help massively with a game world like this, sadly you need to experience it yourself though to really be in awe of moments like this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkg...racing_in_this_game_is_amazing_an_example_of/

Best part of the reflections isn't even that they are done better but more so the fact that they don't just disappear because you have moved the camera slightly.

https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkg...pted_to_take_some_8k_screenshots_crashed_the/

 

[stooeh]

I finished it - thought it was a good game tbh, think a lot of the hate it received was for the hilariously poor legacy console versions!

 

[Godhand007]

Ok and if the game is using more vram does that mean it is causing problems with perf? See the resident evil village video a couple of pages back where the 6800xt is using more vram yet the 3080 is using less and still performing better when ray tracing is turned on and there are no texture issues with it.

If Amd fsr can bring that much performance with same quality as dlss quality setting then I am all for it as it is good for us all if we want more ray traced games. Also, iirc, rdna 2 is still 2 times slower than ampere in ray tracing (without dlss) so performance will never quite match ampere.

Guessing you haven't played metro? It plays very well without any dlss (@3440x1440), although I used it anyway as why not, IQ is just as good as native, if not better because it offers better AA than TAA as per DF video to back this up.

Again, as per earlier discussion, what's it matter if the end result looks stunning? Who cares.

In your opinion that is. Just because you and others don't like the game doesn't mean others have to have the same opinion... it was the goty for me and a lot of other people (not exactly hard tbf given the **** amount of games over the last year), even when I played it through first time on my vega 56 and my feelings felt the exact same for the game with a 3080 but with ray tracing, it added even more to the experience second time round. Surely if the game was as bad as you and others make it out, we would be seeing user scores like godfall? Also, just had a look at steam, it's actually not bad given the sheer amount of reviews it has....



Genuine question, have you played cyberpunk or are you one of these people who has just watched youtube footage and jumped on the bandwagon? If the game style/setting is even remotely of interest, I suggest giving it a go yourself, you might be pleasantly surprised.

Ray traced shadows in CP aren't great but the lighting and especially reflections are stunning and help massively with a game world like this, sadly you need to experience it yourself though to really be in awe of moments like this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkg...racing_in_this_game_is_amazing_an_example_of/

Best part of the reflections isn't even that they are done better but more so the fact that they don't just disappear because you have moved the camera slightly.

https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkg...pted_to_take_some_8k_screenshots_crashed_the/

Not dissing on RT but I remember similar screenshots of moded GTA 5 with Re-shade and oversaturation doing rounds some time ago. Metro EE is the first game that makes me appreciate RT and runs pretty well on AMD cards. 3090 is around 50% faster not twice as fast in this heavily RT limited, GameWorks ON, Raster settings reduced scenario for this Nvidia Sponsered game.

 

[Wrinkly]

That definitely adds context to the right hand side screenshot, but again I have to ask, why are they SO different? A game should have an art direction just like movies, the two screenshots could be two completely different games, or at least the same game but one modded.

We've got a long way to go with not just the ray tracing technology, but also how it is utilized and applied in an artistic way.

I feel like there are a hundred discussions going on in this thread, and I'm not helping lol. Nvida, what have you wrought, with this 10gb vram limit and ray tracing tech.

They are so different due to (pick one).

• The artists not placing the correct lights in the original.
• The artists not adjusting light source for the FREE Enchanced version to keep the original dark look.
• The artists feeling that correct lighting was better overall.
• No artists were involved in the Enhaced version.

I'm happy with the enhanced version as I never feel the lighting is off. I would have like the option to up the RT effects a little more. It's worth noting also that the original with RT on did get some negative criticism for being too dark.

 

[Wrinkly]

Ahh so the real benefit is it saves developer resources (as well as selling new hardware)?

Long term that would be a benefit, but for now developers will have to think of both RT and legacy rasterisation.

I find RT provides a far more immersive scene. I agree that it's not so important when you are playing whack a mole/call of duty, but in a single player game where you get to sneak around I found the difference to be well worth an upgrade. I find NPCs/objects no longer appear as floating cardboard cutouts, which has always been immersion breaking in the past. Looking the to the future when RT becomes the norm, we will see games with far more dynamic environments, no more glued down objects.

 

[K1LaW8tt5]

Looking the to the future when RT becomes the norm, we will see games with far more dynamic environments, no more glued down objects.

Might need more vram for that too though?.
Hopefully Nvidias next flagship card is not a budget vram designed around consoles.

The 3080 is great for entry level 4K and legacy games. But think we all new it was never a true flagship card

 

[Joxeon]

Might need more vram for that too though?.
Hopefully Nvidias next flagship card is not a budget vram designed around consoles.

The 3080 is great for entry level 4K and legacy games. But think we all new it was never a true flagship card

For the £650 msrp the 3080 with 10gb is a fine card compared to say an 8gb 2080 which sold for around £700, the issue now is it's not available at anywhere near msrp apart from a single model and often goes for over double that price so with today's pricing it offers poor performance and not enough VRAM for a card in that price bracket.

 

[ICDP]

Might need more vram for that too though?.
Hopefully Nvidias next flagship card is not a budget vram designed around consoles.

The 3080 is great for entry level 4K and legacy games. But think we all new it was never a true flagship card

Absolutely agreed with the caveat that this only applies at MSRP but MSRP is a fantasy now. Had I paid more than ~£700 for my 3080 FE I would be feeling like I was scammed. At the scalping prices 10GB is not remotely future proofed for 4K even 1 year down the line.

Note the following is not aimed at your post but in general.

There has been a steady trickle of evidence showing that 10GB can be a problem on the 3080 and we aren't just taking rare ubermodded scenarios but out of the box. Of course we still have people defending it as "they are crap games anyway", or "poorly coded", or "it will run out of GPU grunt before it matters". How do any of those subjective non evidence based answers somewhow invalidate the objective facts being presented? We also have the destraction of "but look how awesome RT in Metreo Exodus and CP2077 is" and I am scratching my head and how this is relevant.

It's like a one car family buying a family car and saying it is perfect but ignoring those family vacations where it couldn't hold 4x people and their luggage. "But but but it's perfect for my daily commute".

I swear the cognitive dissonance on display by some here is absolutely mind boggling. Why is it hard to understand that if your answer to the question "is it good enough", is "mostly yes" then the answer is actually NO.

 

[gpuerrilla]

Hopefully Nvidias next flagship card is not a budget vram designed around consoles.

Next flagship is here. 3080 TIE

 

[Grim5]

Don't worry 3080 owners the 3080tie is here so now you won't run out of vram anymore congratulations

 

[Nexus18]

The price was the main reason I went nvidia this time round, oh and stock..... £650 for a 3080 in Jan/Feb was too good to let go, if I wanted a 6800xt, I was going to have to pay at least £800 and hope to god that I was super lucky given the rate that they were coming in at, have better luck finding a unicorn!

 

[Nexus18]

Absolutely agreed with the caveat that this only applies at MSRP but MSRP is a fantasy now. Had I paid more than ~£700 for my 3080 FE I would be feeling like I was scammed. At the scalping prices 10GB is not remotely future proofed for 4K even 1 year down the line.

Note the following is not aimed at your post but in general.

There has been a steady trickle of evidence showing that 10GB can be a problem on the 3080 and we aren't just taking rare ubermodded scenarios but out of the box. Of course we still have people defending it as "they are crap games anyway", or "poorly coded", or "it will run out of GPU grunt before it matters". How do any of those subjective non evidence based answers somewhow invalidate the objective facts being presented? We also have the destraction of "but look how awesome RT in Metreo Exodus and CP2077 is" and I am scratching my head and how this is relevant.

It's like a one car family buying a family car and saying it is perfect but ignoring those family vacations where it couldn't hold 4x people and their luggage. "But but but it's perfect for my daily commute".

I swear the cognitive dissonance on display by some here is absolutely mind boggling. Why is it hard to understand that if your answer to the question "is it good enough", is "mostly yes" then the answer is actually NO.

You/people still have yet to list these games though... As someone pointed out with your previous example, not a wonder you're running out of vram.

Default resolution on that headset is 10,136 X 3160... How do you think that's relevant to 99% of the people involved in this discussion?

3080 is aimed at 4K gamers and you are surprised it has issues running 2.5 times that amount of pixeps

Even the one game that people keep latching on to for this crusade of theirs might not actually be an issue at all with the 3080 10gb vram when you look at youtube videos of a 3080 playing godfall with ray tracing turned on compared to a 6800xt, the 3080 looks smoother (sadly no side by side comparisons though where ray tracing is used). The 6800xt min fps drop a ton too in the video but of course that doesn't matter because "3080 has its trousers pulled down with them min fps"....