10GB vram enough for the 3080? Discuss..

[Nexus18]

Thanks.

I guess consumers would appreciate it more if these development cost savings were passed on with cheaper games, instead of the price hikes on games. Essentially as things stand now, consumers are having to buy RT hardware so the developer can save money.

The problem with the videos you linked which analyse RT is they always compare RT on/off in the same game, when we all know if these games were non RT the standard lighting would be much better implemented. I dont know the solution to this issue because you cant really compare one game to another, but every RT game I have seen, the non RT lighting is massively nerfed vs older games.

Also interestingly on deathloop, I think I prefer the visual quality mode, the ray trace mode has blurry shadows, loss of detail, and the lighting seems over exposed.

In theory, all the time saved would allow them to focus on other areas and/or faster time to market.

No one is "having" to buy RT hardware either, of course if you want to use RT then yes you will have to buy hardware with RT support but we are still a long way of from RT "only" games (next one coming is ubi/massives avatar game) and given that current gen consoles + all gpus from last 1-2 years have RT support, it will eventually just become the norm, it isn't going to fade out and will only gain more traction with time i.e. by the time we start seeing "every" game with RT levels like cp, metro etc. or even better RT support, the majority of people will have RT hardware and chances are probably hardware with superior RT capabilities too.

What we have seen with RT so far, even in the best RT games is still the tip of the iceberg where as the likes of RDR 2 are pretty much the absolute best (within reason of time spent) that rasterization has to show.

I don't disagree, some RT games have shown little to no effort put into the rasterization methods but again, this is why I always refer back to this:

Best way to prove this is to compare metro exodus and the enhanced version, people ranted and raved about how good metros lighting, shadows etc. were yet even still, compared to the RT version, it looks like **** in comparison.

No one seems to comment or rather come back to that point...

CP 2077 has also been regarded as being very good for its rasterization methods yet RT still is superior.

What do you mean by blurry shadows too? Shadows are behaving the way they should i.e. this is a very good showcase of RT shadows:

This is where the RT VS rasterization debate can be summed up with people preferring an artificial/fake appearance over a more realistic appearance.

 

[TNA]

This thread

 

[chrcoluk]

I remember metro exodus yeah, if I remember right there was some bits DF preferred on RT, and some on non RT, I will check comparison videos again later and give an opinion. That game is probably going to be the fairest modern comparison we will ever get.

 

[Wrinkly]

I had the same thing with, I think, FarCry 3, Shadow of War, World of Tanks and a few others when using a 970. My R9 290 ran fine. The odd thing was that everyone else were praising the 970. Still not sure if I had a faulty one or if it was simply incompatible with my system. OCUK refunded it and I ended up with a 980Ti.

Time for you to upgrade

 

[tommybhoy]

I had the same thing with, I think, FarCry 3, Shadow of War, World of Tanks and a few others when using a 970. My R9 290 ran fine. The odd thing was that everyone else were praising the 970.

Similarly there's just about everyone else praising the og 3080 and adament its not going to run out of 10Gb.

 

[Nexus18]

I remember metro exodus yeah, if I remember right there was some bits DF preferred on RT, and some on non RT, I will check comparison videos again later and give an opinion. That game is probably going to be the fairest modern comparison we will ever get.

I do recall of them preferring something to do with rasterization too but can't remember exactly what it was but I think on the whole, they pretty much also stated RT was a superior version.

IMO, you're best to play for yourself though so you get a much better feel/sense of the RT lighting, shadows etc. interaction with the environment as you move about as there are a good couple of areas in the game, which are literally jaw dropping.

In terms of "new" games, we probably won't see any "fair" comparisons but with any remasters, it will be a good comparison, apparently batman arkham knight is getting a rt version (according to the nvidia cloud leak anyway) and this should be a very good show case as BAK even for today still looks great.

I had the same thing with, I think, FarCry 3, Shadow of War, World of Tanks and a few others when using a 970. My R9 290 ran fine. The odd thing was that everyone else were praising 970. Still not sure if I had a faulty 970 or if it was simply incompatible with my system. OCUK refunded it and I ended up with a 980Ti.

Time for you to upgrade

Far cry 3 was well regarded with stutters and fps drops on all gpus, it's just the game engine which is **** tbh and very much showing its age now, funnily though, fc 5 and new dawn played very well.


It's why I keep bringing these 3 main points up:

1. there have been at least 3 x 3090 users on ubi forums saying about the same fps drops and obviously they aren't lacking on vram.... which is why I keep saying with regards to those isolated cases, just because they are getting them doesn't mean "all" 3090 users will get that experience too, so not sure why a small minority keep on "insisting" the same for "all" 3080 users too....

2. I haven't encountered that issue on my "3080", even when as tommy puts it, I'm "breaching/exceeding" the 10GB VRAM limit, which you can see in this video:

Where as in cp 2077 with the 4 & 8k texture mod packs, even though 10GB isn't straight away being "breached", you can clearly see the vram causing expected issues and you can see how once vram drops/memory management kicks in, FPS and frame latency returns to normal:

3. Given he is having issues after some time even at 1440P with NO HD texture pack AND using FSR.... based on what I have read, the issue is on his end and as I said many times with evidence, it's because of his 16GB RAM given ubi offloaded some of the work to the system RAM, which is why RAM usage jumped by 4-5GB with the patch (as me and shaz etc. noted, game ram usage is right on the 16gb edge). Not to mention, the lack of any other reports stating the same issues (especially at those settings), which he is having and being the internet and people posting more when they have problems, you would think, there would be far more posts on this, not to mention, surely the main tech press such as HU, GN, techpowerup, PCGH, computebase, oc3d would have posted something on it..... Not to mention he was having issues with his 3070 8gb vram in various other games, which again, no other users here have mentioned nor wide spread reports elsewhere.... The only other differences I can think of are that I'm using w11 and I didn't have as many long FC 6 sessions as tommy did.

 

[Wrinkly]

Similarly there's just about everyone else praising the og 3080 and adament its not going to run out of 10Gb.

People aren't saying that. What is being said is the GPU will run out of grunt before it runs out of VRAM, which can already be seen on the 3090. The 6800, 6800XT and 6900XT all have 16GB of VRAM yet can't run with RT and playable frame rates, another example of this generations lack of GPU horse power.

 

[Wrinkly]

Far cry 3 was well regarded with stutters and fps drops on all gpus, it's just the game engine which is **** tbh and very much showing its age now, funnily though, fc 5 and new dawn played very well.


It's why I keep bringing these 3 main points up:

1. there have been at least 3 x 3090 users on ubi forums saying about the same fps drops and obviously they aren't lacking on vram.... which is why I keep saying with regards to those isolated cases, just because they are getting them doesn't mean "all" 3090 users will get that experience too, so not sure why a small minority keep on "insisting" the same for "all" 3080 users too....

2. I haven't encountered that issue on my "3080", even when as tommy puts it, I'm "breaching/exceeding" the 10GB VRAM limit, which you can see in this video:

I stopped buying Ubisoft Titles a few years ago due to their poor attitude to PC, something that may explain why Nvidia dropped them?

Tommy does appear to have an issue with his card and / or system while refusing to listen to logic hence it's just easier to tell him to upgrade

 

[Nexus18]

People aren't saying that. What is being said is the GPU will run out of grunt before it runs out of VRAM, which can already be seen on the 3090. The 6800, 6800XT and 6900XT all have 16GB of VRAM yet can't run with RT and playable frame rates, another example of this generations lack of GPU horse power.

Exactly.

Something which several 3080 owners have all stated too based on their experience in a good few games now but again, a small minority of people (most of which don't even have a 3080 themselves....) are still "insisting" that vram is the main problem before grunt...

I stopped buying Ubisoft Titles a few years ago due to their poor attitude to PC, something that may explain why Nvidia dropped them?

Tommy does appear to have an issue with his card and / or system while refusing to listen to logic hence it's just easier to tell him to upgrade

Possibly, especially after that comment the human eye can't see more than 24 or 30 (?) fps and wanting to have parity with consoles TBF, the PC ports in the last couple of years have been rather good though.

Aside from division 1 and 2, they haven't provided a good game since imo. Assassins creed origins was pretty good, vahalla and odyssey were just same thing but different skin although arguably worse mechanics in the sense, they felt more arcadey. Hopefully avatar will be good with it being from massive.....

 

[Tired9]

Looking forwards to Avatar the game, we did get a game from the movie previously back in last gen, but clearly not the best.

 

[tommybhoy]

Plot thickens, Nv's GFE recommends setting adaptive resolution to 30 fps on the 3080@4K in FC6.

Anyone with 12Gb+ cards, what's your recommended FC6 Nv settings in GFE, AR on@30 fps or off?

 

[Tired9]

I do recall of them preferring something to do with rasterization too but can't remember exactly what it was but I think on the whole, they pretty much also stated RT was a superior version.

IMO, you're best to play for yourself though so you get a much better feel/sense of the RT lighting, shadows etc. interaction with the environment as you move about as there are a good couple of areas in the game, which are literally jaw dropping.

In terms of "new" games, we probably won't see any "fair" comparisons but with any remasters, it will be a good comparison, apparently batman arkham knight is getting a rt version (according to the nvidia cloud leak anyway) and this should be a very good show case as BAK even for today still looks great.





Far cry 3 was well regarded with stutters and fps drops on all gpus, it's just the game engine which is **** tbh and very much showing its age now, funnily though, fc 5 and new dawn played very well.


It's why I keep bringing these 3 main points up:

1. there have been at least 3 x 3090 users on ubi forums saying about the same fps drops and obviously they aren't lacking on vram.... which is why I keep saying with regards to those isolated cases, just because they are getting them doesn't mean "all" 3090 users will get that experience too, so not sure why a small minority keep on "insisting" the same for "all" 3080 users too....

2. I haven't encountered that issue on my "3080", even when as tommy puts it, I'm "breaching/exceeding" the 10GB VRAM limit, which you can see in this video:

Where as in cp 2077 with the 4 & 8k texture mod packs, even though 10GB isn't straight away being "breached", you can clearly see the vram causing expected issues and you can see how once vram drops/memory management kicks in, FPS and frame latency returns to normal:

3. Given he is having issues after some time even at 1440P with NO HD texture pack AND using FSR.... based on what I have read, the issue is on his end and as I said many times with evidence, it's because of his 16GB RAM given ubi offloaded some of the work to the system RAM, which is why RAM usage jumped by 4-5GB with the patch (as me and shaz etc. noted, game ram usage is right on the 16gb edge). Not to mention, the lack of any other reports stating the same issues (especially at those settings), which he is having and being the internet and people posting more when they have problems, you would think, there would be far more posts on this, not to mention, surely the main tech press such as HU, GN, techpowerup, PCGH, computebase, oc3d would have posted something on it..... Not to mention he was having issues with his 3070 8gb vram in various other games, which again, no other users here have mentioned nor wide spread reports elsewhere.... The only other differences I can think of are that I'm using w11 and I didn't have as many long FC 6 sessions as tommy did.

I agree with your analysis, I am also a Windows 11 user, it could be different windows... but we would have to find out each and every person that runs into these issues and see what they are running.

I believe that the perception of items not performing to their best is always good to be judged subjectively, afterall we are paying with our own money and we have our subjective use-case scenario's.

However to go on a tiraid and say all people will run into issues is disengenuous at best and I am sick of seeing it.

This stuff has happened since the first time I got serious into building a PC which was like 2009.

Back then folks said my 512MB on my 9800 GTX+ would be a big issue, never was... most games then were just console ports.

The same Vram arguments were being said about the time Battlefield 3 came out and 1GB GPU's wre doing just fine, evidenced by Crossfire and SLi scaling in that game.

People went into heavily modding Skyrim and the Vram BS just kept escalating, painting everyone with the same brush like fanatics.

I and many people with 8GB-10GB cards are not running into these problems and as much as people will use anecdotal evidence to go against our words, they will also create scenario's in their heads that we must be paid shills, lying because it is what we bought or some other BS to justify their stupid stance.

Sadly the internet is full of dull and fixed minded people like this, people are afraid of being wrong and opening their mind to wider incoming information on a grander scale.

 

[EastCoastHandle]

I do recall of them preferring something to do with rasterization too but can't remember exactly what it was but I think on the whole, they pretty much also stated RT was a superior version.

IMO, you're best to play for yourself though so you get a much better feel/sense of the RT lighting, shadows etc. interaction with the environment as you move about as there are a good couple of areas in the game, which are literally jaw dropping.

In terms of "new" games, we probably won't see any "fair" comparisons but with any remasters, it will be a good comparison, apparently batman arkham knight is getting a rt version (according to the nvidia cloud leak anyway) and this should be a very good show case as BAK even for today still looks great.





Far cry 3 was well regarded with stutters and fps drops on all gpus, it's just the game engine which is **** tbh and very much showing its age now, funnily though, fc 5 and new dawn played very well.


It's why I keep bringing these 3 main points up:

1. there have been at least 3 x 3090 users on ubi forums saying about the same fps drops and obviously they aren't lacking on vram.... which is why I keep saying with regards to those isolated cases, just because they are getting them doesn't mean "all" 3090 users will get that experience too, so not sure why a small minority keep on "insisting" the same for "all" 3080 users too....

2. I haven't encountered that issue on my "3080", even when as tommy puts it, I'm "breaching/exceeding" the 10GB VRAM limit, which you can see in this video:

Hmm, I did find something about your game play experienced that I found disturbing. And I do see how you are breaching/exceeding the 10GB vram limit. It's the sort of thing I would have noticed as "normal" if I experienced it on my end but I do not. It's certainly worth looking into. However, it is my opinion that what I noticed about your experience could be contributed to the lack of vram. As there is no other explanation for it. Your framerates were fine when you fought the pack of wolves and other npcs. Everything was fine until you started walking on the street. Then for some "random" reasons your 80 FPS drops to around 55 FPS. That's a significant drop in frames for just walking around doing nothing.


At this point everything is fine. Your frame rates are as expected. Nothing going on. Taking in the view. Relaxing. Gathering your thoughts on the next coarse of action as you take in how good those power line shadows and pistol look...




Then all of a sudden this happens. I mean no way man, no way?! But there is a huge frame rate drop that continues towards the end of your video.

 

[Nexus18]

Hmm, I did find something about your game play experienced that I found disturbing. And I do see how you are breaching/exceeding the 10GB vram limit. It's the sort of thing I would have noticed as "normal" if I experienced it on my end but I do not. It's certainly worth looking into. However, it is my opinion that what I noticed about your experience could be contributed to the lack of vram. As there is no other explanation for it. Your framerates were fine when you fought the pack of wolves and other npcs. Everything was fine until you started walking on the street. Then for some "random" reasons your 80 FPS drops to around 55 FPS. That's a significant drop in frames for just walking around doing nothing.


At this point everything is fine. Your frame rates are as expected. Nothing going on. Taking in the view. Relaxing. Gathering your thoughts on the next coarse of action as you take in how good those power line shadows and pistol look...




Then all of a sudden this happens. I mean no way man, no way?! But there is a huge frame rate drop that continues towards the end of your video.

Good spot, although should be noted that is with rebar turned on as I was trying to replicate tommys 1fps scenario, which it did at 4k with "no" FSR.

Again, I wouldn't really put what you see there down to just "vram", it could be a combination of nvidias driver and/or rebar or/and all of them combined with the game.

Here is a video which is the exact same except without rebar:

Could explain why some 3090 owners report fps drops i.e. maybe they have rebar on, although don't recall of them specifying rebar...

 

[Kelt]

Nope!

And this is only at 3440x1440!

@TNA

 

[TNA]

Nope!

And this is only at 3440x1440!

@TNA

What game is that?

Anyway, 3080 and and the 3000 series is old news now (for me anyway). 4000 series feels like it is around the corner. I am sure we will get at least 16GB with that and the boys with red shades say all the games work perfectly fine with 16GB (even Goodfall!) so I should be fine

 

[Bill Turnip]

I'm sure we will get at least 16GB with that and the boys with red shades say all the games work perfectly fine with 16GB (even Goodfall!) so I should be fine

Not looking to play skyrim with 2936826 mods then?

 

[Kelt]

What game is that?

Anyway, 3080 and and the 3000 series is old news now (for me anyway). 4000 series feels like it is around the corner. I am sure we will get at least 16GB with that and the boys with red shades say all the games work perfectly fine with 16GB (even Goodfall!) so I should be fine

Deathloop.

Yeh, should be more memory on the 4 series for sure.

I'm gonna stick with my 3080 Ti for the next couple of years though, will have a review when the 5 series are due.

 

[TNA]

Deathloop.

Yeh, should be more memory on the 4 series for sure.

I'm gonna stick with my 3080 Ti for the next couple of years though, will have a review when the 5 series are due.

Never heard of deathloop being a vram hog. My guess is mods or it is showing you allocated vram rather than what is needed

Yeah, 5000 series will be sweet, I will upgrade to that too

 

[Nexus18]

Never heard of deathloop being a vram hog. My guess is mods or it is showing you allocated vram rather than what is needed

Yeah, 5000 series will be sweet, I will upgrade to that too

That's because it's not

@4k with RT:



Although iirc, DF found that when doing super quick 180s, textures were already loaded in or/and loaded in quicker if you had more vram.