29 million Bulgarians and Romanians will gain the right to live and work unrestricted in our country

[arknor]

On a whole immigration is financially beneficial to our economy but don't let hard facts get in the way of your ignorant and/or racist rant

GDP goes up transport and other services get hammered we already had a housing shortage as it were.

racist and ignorant lol..... RIGHT!

Maybe read my post again and see I'm not against all immigration

 

[dowie]

If people want to come here and live on as little as possible whilst saving/sending money "home" or relying on benefits kick them out

The benefits thing is a load of nonsense tbh...

As for living on as little as possible and saving/sending money home - what is wrong with that?

Some UK based employer is getting some utility from these workers and if they're not here long term, haven't come here with children etc.. then they don't really cost us much either.

If our own jobless (we're not exactly short on them) were taking up the available roles and/or moving to where the work was then there wouldn't be any jobs for these Romanians/Bulgarians aside from illegal below minimum wage roles...

 

[jake9891]

according to wiki and 2011 Census there is over 7 million people in Bulgaria and over 19 in Romania, are they all moving here then?

on serious side, I am Polish and I am just about to graduate, reading this thread really worries me what will happen in the future regarding jobs and I am worried that my hard working parents will be made redundant by new comers from other countries

 

[estebanrey]

And the reason why most people who are anti-immigration are branded as racist is because most of them are. Not always, but enough to make the label stick.

Right so prejudicial and blanket statements are fine then? Isn't that kind of thing also why people get called racists? Taking a group of people and assuming a notion applies to all because it applies to a large number of them?

Also "anti-immigration" is almost always used incorrectly. Few people, outside the BNP, support closing the borders completely. Being concerned about immigration numbers and/or not favouring an open door policy does not make one 'anti-immigration' but rather 'pro-sensible and sustainable immigration that doesn't negatively affect the people already here'.

 

[C.R.A.Z.Y]

Maybe read my post again and see I'm not against all immigration

A tiny minority of immigrants abuse the system and thanks to right-wing propaganda from trash papers like the daily fail & sun people like you seem to be under the impression that these isolated cases are rampant and the cause for our economic problems

A huge number of people that read these gutter papers lack the ability of critical thinking or even thinking for themselves for that matter, then like the foolish tories they think a ridiculous cap is a good idea

Well I'm sorry but you're completely wrong and when the stupid tories bought in such a cap in 2010 it stifled economic growth and began damaging British industry. Don't take my word for it, go read and research what business were saying about it! Here I'll get you started:

Since then, various business figures have protested that the cap is damaging British industry; in 2011, Sir Richard Lambert, a former director-general of the Confederation of British Industry said that the cap was making it harder for firms to recruit.

 

[estebanrey]

If our own jobless (we're not exactly short on them) were taking up the available roles and/or moving to where the work was then there wouldn't be any jobs for these Romanians/Bulgarians aside from illegal below minimum wage roles...

I think you're putting the cart before the horse there.

 

[arknor]

Some UK based employer is getting some utility from these workers and if they're not here long term, haven't come here with children etc.. then they don't really cost us much either.

they don't need to bring their own child here to receive child benefit for them

 

[dowie]

I think you're putting the cart before the horse there.

not at all... if available jobs were already being filled by the people currently allowed to fill them (which isn't a huge ask given that we've got more unemployed people than available jobs) then it wouldn't be very feasible for hoards of Romanians to come here in future

they don't need to bring their own child here to receive child benefit for them

they do if they want to send them to school... in fact they need to have them in the first place - most of the previous eastern european migrants haven't...

 

[gothic_hobbit]

Sign the petition to stop this madness :

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/41492

 

[hurfdurf]

Seriously dude what response did you think this thread was going to get?
Overclockers have been regarded as a right-wing bigoted forum for years all across the internet.
At least they are consistent with their bigotry, if it's not racist nonsense then it's either homophobia or sexism
To be fair though it's not as bad as it use to be many years ago!

Its improved a tiny bit but there are still a ton of people, many of whome post here who boycott the shop because of the filth that is accepted on the forums.

 

[estebanrey]

A huge number of people that read these gutter papers lack the ability of critical thinking or even thinking for themselves for that matter, then like the foolish tories they think a ridiculous cap is a good idea

Could you be any more pretentious and prejudiced?

Well I'm sorry but you're completely wrong and when the stupid tories bought in such a cap in 2010 it stifled economic growth and began damaging British industry. Don't take my word for it, go read and research what business were saying about it! Here I'll get you started:

LOL, that's like saying global warming doesn't exist because the petrol companies said it doesn't. Of course businesses are going to moan when you reduce the amount of cheap labour they can employ.

And why does everything in this country have to revolve around what business thinks anyway? I couldn't care less about our GDP or how well British companies are doing on the stock market, I care about the standard of people's lives and their ability to earn a living wage.

The argument seems to be it doesn't matter if people at the bottom are struggling to find work or live off the earning of jobs available to them just so long as UK PLC's balance sheet looks good. It's like praising Nike for having an impressive profit margins and not caring about the child labour being used to make the trainers.

 

[BlackCoat2k10]

If you don't consider the country your are currently living in to be your home then maybe you should.

If people don't want to come here to make a new life and see the country as their new home and embrace our society ( yea the last bit is pretty hard seeing as the country is ****) then why bother ?

If people want to come and make a new life for themselves great.
If people want to come here and live on as little as possible whilst saving/sending money "home" or relying on benefits kick them out

I agree, especially with the bolded text. I have seen many people come here to work, but because they do not consider it their 'Home' they have a distinct lack of respect.

(Example. Old next door neighbour used to work, get benefits to help her out with housing due to part time work and looking after her son. But because she didn't consider this her home she used to throw her litter out of the front door into the street, this included used nappies, used bog roll, food cartons, eggs, milk and food leftovers. Her excuse was 'It's not my home so I don't care' - a Complete lack of respect for the place she lived in and it just helps to pull the entire local area down the drain)

On the other hand, I have witnessed people who have come to the UK to look for work, to look for creating a better life for their family. These people who would consider this their 'new home', they show so much respect to their local neighbours, even to the point of trying to intergrate with parties and charity events. These kind of people I like, the others.. I'd rather they went back to their 'Home'.

 

[HaX]

I was in the audience for that QT

And anecdotal or not, for the specific area of construction & agricultural farm workers in Lincolnshire, immigration has lowered wages, by far more than the 0.5% Hatter cites from the reports (which would look at national averages and trends).

And that is evidence from both employees and employers.

This exactly the point I'm trying to make.

I am not in a position to answer that fully - I just read around what's available to you and I and try to keep a discerning and skeptical mind. However, there's only so much skepticism I can reserve when study after study shows the same thing.

This is where the studies show your assumptions to be wrong - all classes of profession are affected by immigration (I've said this three times now in the thread).

The lower end of the jobs marked is negatively impacted, but negligibly so - we are talking -0.5% (and has been more than made up for in government police over the last decade). The higher end of the jobs market have seen their wages positively impacted - inflated due to immigration.

Hatter, I don't know whether or not you're arguing for the sake of it, or whether you're genuinely serious.

If you are not prepared to answer my original question of how the employment market is exempt from the economic forces of supply and demand, could you provide cited quotes from the documents you reference which allude to this?

 

[Freakbro]

Taken from the education thread

I was thinking about this report from LSE:

http://cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/pa014.pdf

There are potential economic benefits associated with migration, especially to fill gaps in the UK labour market – where there are shortages of workers, whether high- or low-skilled. While there may be costs to particular groups, there is little evidence of an overall negative impact on jobs or wages.

There is no evidence that EU migrants affect the labour market performance of native-born workers (Lemos and Portes, 2007; Goujard et al, 2011)

.

Thanks for that Tom, and a 9 page report is far more palatable to digest...

but, reading further into the report it says..

Immigrants are, on average, more educated than their UK-born counterparts

I have to admit, I didn't expect that...but it leads into...

Unlike in the United States, where the skill composition of immigrants is tilted towards the unskilled, the skill composition of immigrants to the UK is more biased towards skilled workers. It might be expected therefore that there would be more pressure on wages among skilled workers in the UK, unless immigrants look for jobs that are not commensurate with their skills or it is harder to transfer certain acquired skills from one country to another.

So we have a skewing of the figures towards skilled labour in this country

Furthermore, if demand for labour is rising, there may be no effects of immigration on wages and employment. An open economy may adjust by means other than wages: one such mechanism is adjustment by changing the mix of goods the economy produces.

So, when we have a boom time and demand for labour out strips supply, then immigration may have no effect on wages....makes sense.

If labour demand exceeds labour supply in the receiving country, the impact of immigration will be different from that in a country already at full employment. Concerns about substitution and displacement of the UK-born workforce become more prevalent when output is demand-constrained, as in a recession or when capital is less mobile.

But, in times of recession with a glut in the workforce supply, then immigration more readily affects the labour market

In short, recent empirical research on the labour market effects of immigration to the UK finds little evidence of overall adverse effects of immigration on wages and employment for people born in the UK.

The line yourself and others like to pick out - but note the use of overall, so we are talking the average, though as stated earlier in the report immigration takes a higher role in skilled jobs in the UK, where there is little to no downward pressure on wages....but...

Nevertheless, there may be some downward pressure in the low wage labour market where (despite their higher relative education levels) many new immigrants tend to find work. There may also be a positive effect on wages in the high wage labour markets where it may take more time for the skills that immigrants bring to transfer.

So, there does seem to be evidence of a downward pressure on the wages in the low skilled labour market....which is what we have been saying all along, it just gets masked in the official reports by the overall picture which includes the positive effect in the high wage labour market.

So no, I don't accept that the experience from a lot of people involved in the construction, agricultural and manual labour markets about the depression of wages from mass European immigration is just 'anecdotal' and not borne out by official figures.

 

[Dr House]

I have spent 10 years of my life living in Eastern Europe and i can honestly say that I welcome the Polish, Slovaks and Czechs here however having lived with the social issues the Romanians cause in Czech and that port of Europe I am truly afraid for this country.

 

[estebanrey]

Advert being printing in Bulgarian newspapers*

* This isn't actually true

 

[grudas]

its a bunch of bs thats what it is if you dont work hard in uk you'll get nowhere but Bulgarians and Romanians are the people that DONT WORK and steal/cause havoc everywhere they go! trust me i live in north London and i have a few BIG families living very close and the parks/street etc are always full of them just sitting on fences doing NOTHING for the whole day yet people drive up to them in G class mercs..

 

[Swarfega]

More "Moley's" coming into the country?

 

[Biohazard]

If it's 'England'; why use the Union Flag? Why not the St George?

This perennial and basic misunderstanding of this nation is flabbergasting if anything other than annoyingly persistent.

Ignoring the ironies of calling it "The Welfare Country"; as it's busy dismantling the welfare system under Tory rule.

 

[The Geezer]

its a bunch of bs thats what it is if you dont work hard in uk you'll get nowhere but Bulgarians and Romanians are the people that DONT WORK and steal/cause havoc everywhere they go! trust me i live in north London and i have a few BIG families living very close and the parks/street etc are always full of them just sitting on fences doing NOTHING for the whole day yet people drive up to them in G class mercs..

So your isloated experience tarnishs whole nations ? There is a political party that needs your support immediately