29 million Bulgarians and Romanians will gain the right to live and work unrestricted in our country

grudas said:
its a bunch of bs thats what it is :) if you dont work hard in uk you'll get nowhere :) but Bulgarians and Romanians are the people that DONT WORK and steal/cause havoc everywhere they go! trust me i live in north London and i have a few BIG families living very close and the parks/street etc are always full of them just sitting on fences doing NOTHING for the whole day yet people drive up to them in G class mercs..
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For what its worth, I know one Romanian who was considering moving to the UK. He speaks several languages, is highly educated, previously founded a technology startup & sold it and is in general very hard working. I know a guy who goes out there for work every so often and rates the guys in the office out there pretty highly and when I was out there for a holiday and had car trouble, we turned up at a garage just as they were packing up for the day and they were perfectly happy to spend two hours fixing the car there and then. There's plenty of hard working people in those countries as well as the problem sorts.

The people who will turn up from Romania and Bulgaria are mostly going to be the hard working types. The dodgy sorts aren't the kind of people to care if they're in the country illegally, so if they want to be in the UK they probably already are.

I've been abroad for the past 6 months and was thinking of coming back to the UK but all this vitriolic little englander guff is making me think twice. :(

All these "Britain isn't great anymore" comments are ridiculous. If it wasn't, all these "legions of immigrants" would just be staying at home. Britain is generally awesome. Fact.
 
Freakbro said:
Taken from the education thread

Thanks for that Tom, and a 9 page report is far more palatable to digest...

So, there does seem to be evidence of a downward pressure on the wages in the low skilled labour market… which is what we have been saying all along, it just gets masked in the official reports by the overall picture which includes the positive effect in the high wage labour market.

So no, I don't accept that the experience from a lot of people involved in the construction, agricultural and manual labour markets about the depression of wages from mass European immigration is just 'anecdotal' and not borne out by official figures.
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I see what you're saying, and I did recognise that local experience may differ from a national average in the education thread. However, directly below your final quote from the report: "Nevertheless…" it says:

The evidence from research shows that:

1) Immigrants and native-born workers are not close substitutes, on average (existing migrants are closer substitutes for new migrants). This means that native-born workers are, on average, cushioned from rises in supply caused by rising immigration (Manacorda et al, 2007).
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Again, recognising that it's an average, it still suggests that as a country the problem is not as bad as it is reported (although some local areas may be affected more than others).

2) The less skilled are closer substitutes for immigrants than the more highly skilled, so any pressures from increased competition from jobs is more likely to be found among less skilled workers (Manacorda et al, 2007). These effects appear to be borne out by other studies, but the effects are not large (Dustmann et al, 2008; Nickell and Salaheen, 2008).
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So as Hatter was saying originally, the report recognises that the low-skilled market has been affected but not as badly as popular opinion suggests.

3) There is no evidence that EU migrants affect the labour market performance of native-born workers (Lemos and Portes, 2007; Goujard et al, 2011).
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So specifically EU migrants, whereas the rest of the report focuses on the whole world.

Figure 2 shows the lack of correlation between changes in the native-born youth unemployment rate and changes in the share of immigrants living in an area between 2004 and 2010. Native-born youth unemployment rose less in areas that experienced a larger change in the share of immigrants.
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I appreciate youth unemployment is a slightly different argument to employment in the round but native youth unemployment was rising prior to 2004 so it's an interesting comparison to make.


Don't get me wrong, I think tighter controls on immigration would be a good thing and I'm certainly not advocating an open door policy. I just think that like the issues in the education thread, these subjects are far more complicated than they are portrayed in the media and often public opinion is slightly different to the reality.
 
hurfdurf said:
Its improved a tiny bit but there are still a ton of people, many of whome post here who boycott the shop because of the filth that is accepted on the forums.
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Seen you post **** like this before and it infuriates me.

Someone disagrees with me and won't tow my line so I will close down all debate by labelling people racists/bigots.

The tool of the ill educated, or those who are wrong.
 
The Geezer said:
So your isloated experience tarnishs whole nations ? There is a political party that needs your support immediately
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act smiley said:
For what its worth, I know one Romanian who was considering moving to the UK. He speaks several languages, is highly educated, previously founded a technology startup & sold it and is in general very hard working. I know a guy who goes out there for work every so often and rates the guys in the office out there pretty highly and when I was out there for a holiday and had car trouble, we turned up at a garage just as they were packing up for the day and they were perfectly happy to spend two hours fixing the car there and then. There's plenty of hard working people in those countries as well as the problem sorts.

The people who will turn up from Romania and Bulgaria are mostly going to be the hard working types. The dodgy sorts aren't the kind of people to care if they're in the country illegally, so if they want to be in the UK they probably already are.

I've been abroad for the past 6 months and was thinking of coming back to the UK but all this vitriolic little englander guff is making me think twice. :(

All these "Britain isn't great anymore" comments are ridiculous. If it wasn't, all these "legions of immigrants" would just be staying at home. Britain is generally awesome. Fact.
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i may have expressed my self in a wrong way :) i know there are a lot of hard working people, but the problem in my eyes is not that they are Romanian or w/e but the fact that the country already has high unemployed rate and this will only make it worse in my opinion.

I live in a rough area and i simply express my opinion on what i see :) I did not say that all the people that come to UK are like that.
 
grudas said:
I live in a rough area and i simply express my opinion on what i see :) I did not say that all the people that come to UK are like that.
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Maybe we're getting to the numb of the issue. Are you blaming immigrants for putting you in a rough area or has it to do with the life choices you made ?
 
The Geezer said:
So your isloated experience tarnishs whole nations ? There is a political party that needs your support immediately
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Trust you you have no idea, I have live in around them for 10 years and they have have a very different way of thinking.

Go ask a czech, polish or slovak person about them and you will understand.
 
The Geezer said:
Maybe we're getting to the numb of the issue. Are you blaming immigrants for putting you in a rough area or has it to do with the life choices you made ?
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i dont mind the area the fact is that they "the immigrants" live around me and i know what to expect when more of "them" move to uk :)

the nation i dislike the most has got to be polish :) the drinking and causing problems is in their hearts

mind you i am lithuanian so hey..
 
act smiley said:
For what its worth, I know one Romanian who was considering moving to the UK. He speaks several languages, is highly educated, previously founded a technology startup & sold it and is in general very hard working. I know a guy who goes out there for work every so often and rates the guys in the office out there pretty highly and when I was out there for a holiday and had car trouble, we turned up at a garage just as they were packing up for the day and they were perfectly happy to spend two hours fixing the car there and then. There's plenty of hard working people in those countries as well as the problem sorts.

The people who will turn up from Romania and Bulgaria are mostly going to be the hard working types. The dodgy sorts aren't the kind of people to care if they're in the country illegally, so if they want to be in the UK they probably already are.

I've been abroad for the past 6 months and was thinking of coming back to the UK but all this vitriolic little englander guff is making me think twice. :(

All these "Britain isn't great anymore" comments are ridiculous. If it wasn't, all these "legions of immigrants" would just be staying at home. Britain is generally awesome. Fact.
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Good post and interesting to read, thanks for posting.
 
Living in Hull for uni has really opened my eyes to the effects of open door immigration. You have a city that already has mass unemployment, then you add load of European citizens hopping off the boat in to the mix, what do you expect but worse conditions?

People who seem to support free immigration must live in a bubble or nowhere near the effected areas. In Hull which is a pretty poor area anyway, the housing and education systems are hugely strained by all these people who are given something for nothing (both native benefit scroungers and immigrants). The native British struggle to find work so how do you think an influx of new immigrants makes people feel? Wages go down and an extra hundred people apply for the same job.

At a time when factories and businesses are closing down, putting thousands of people on the dole, why is our government just saying 'yeah sure' to another 2 countries worth of people who are statistically poor, being given free access to our borders and benefits systems?

It amazes me that anyone with a negative opinion on this matter is sidelined as 'non-progressive' or even racist.
 
phil675 said:
At a time when factories and businesses are closing down, putting thousands of people on the dole, why is our government just saying 'yeah sure' to another 2 countries worth of people who are statistically poor, being given free access to our borders and benefits systems?
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Tbh I don't think benefits are the biggest attraction for immigrants from Eastern Europe. Relatively higher wages is the biggest one but that's been talked about at length. One thing that never gets mentioned is our extremely lax criminal justice system; our emasculated police forces, ineffective CPS and very lenient judges will all be very attractive to the criminal underclass from the East. Although I must stress that the criminal underclass is only a minority of potential immigrants from Bulgaria and Romania, albeit one that must be taken seriously.
 
No1newts said:
Seen you post **** like this before and it infuriates me.

Someone disagrees with me and won't tow my line so I will close down all debate by labelling people racists/bigots.

The tool of the ill educated, or those who are wrong.
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How does calling out someone, correctly, as a racist or bigot end the debate? Sounds like your care mad because you know I'm right, not any other reason. I have a degree in politics so I'm hardly ill educated on the subject and if someone can't defend their racism then calling then racist is hardly wrong.
 
dowie said:
If your job is under threat due to some Romanians emigrating over here then you really ought to have worked harder at school.
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thankgod for this comment. Some people in general here in the UK need to have a stronger motivation to further themselves instead of settling for an unskilled job which many of the 'foreigners' can do equally aswell. Our Countrys education is still miles better than some of the EU countries but we have people who just think the UK should protect their jobs from foreigners??
 
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