Where will we house 29 million people?
i hear theres loads of room in london
29 million Bulgarians and Romanians will gain the right to live and work unrestricted in our country
- Thread starter TnT_ZZZ
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i hear theres loads of room in london
Soldato
uh nah hey are scabs and a disgrace to the human rae, dssend them all home h=theynare scum ofmthis world and neeed to be imunitased whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Soldato
Yep, it would be ridiculous to think the whole population of Bulgaria and Romania coming to the UK
. That said, you cant blame people wanting to improve their lives. The potential problem with all this immigration is it will leave more youngsters on the scrap heap. Why would an employer take on an unskilled youngster and have to train them up with the associated costs and time invested when you can hire a well educated and skilled foreign worker?
Yep, it would be ridiculous to think the whole population of Bulgaria and Romania coming to the UK
Because the idea that employers will suddenly find a horde of young, well educated, skilled Romanian/Bulgarian workers applying for low-paid unskilled employment is not a reality, the majority of foreign EU workers coming in the UK are working in industries that our young people simply do not want to do, and those that are skilled are entering into employment where there are current skill shortages. People find themselves on the proverbial scrapheap generally because of their own doing. Unfortunately it seems that our young people (not all, but some) leave education with an inflated sense of their own worth which hampers their attempts at finding employment, I know plenty of young people leaving education and entering employment and going on to become successful through sheer hard work, determination and the understanding that at the beginning of your career you have to make sacrifices and not everything is handed to you...I also know a few who refuse to work unless they earn "this amount" or "in this industry" or "these hours" and therein lies the problem Employers have....not that they are unwilling to train young people, but that some young people are unwilling or unable to realise that the bottom is where you begin, whether you have a degree or not. I heard this time and again during my time in industry, not that they did not want to hire young people, but simply there were not enough suitable applicants from the UK. 'Suitable' being the operative word.
Soldato
But not all jobs we are talking about are low skilled jobs. Traditionally you would get graduates starting out getting their first jobs and working up through the company over time. Now you just don't have to invest that time and money and instead get ready trained and skilled workers from other countries that would probably accept lower wages than British workers.
Don't get me wrong, there is also a failure in the system where some youngsters are virtually unemployable. I remember watching the news where a car dealership was recruiting youngsters for apprenticeships, saw 250 kids and didn't choose any, as some of the kids were shocked to hear they had to work 37hours a week, didn't like being told what to do, didn't like the idea of being at work for 8.00am etc.
Don't get me wrong, there is also a failure in the system where some youngsters are virtually unemployable. I remember watching the news where a car dealership was recruiting youngsters for apprenticeships, saw 250 kids and didn't choose any, as some of the kids were shocked to hear they had to work 37hours a week, didn't like being told what to do, didn't like the idea of being at work for 8.00am etc.
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From my own experience as a younger person, I would say there are quite a few generalisations there.
Having been on both sides of the spectrum in regards work (crap work, and now a shift to graduate work), I can say that most people do NOT have a ridiculously high expectation. What is changing is what is required and fair. I've experienced first hand employers cutting wages massively, demanding massive hours and with terrible attitudes, because they know that there are people who are happy to take it.
When I used to unpack stuff, it was minimum wage, working ridiculous hours, no health and safety, very heavy loads, draconian management etc. The slightest complaint and you were gone. No sensible person would chose that, and the terrible goings on only could happen because everyone there was foreign. For them it was a fair compromise. For me I could only do it because I was ultra poor at the time and needed money to survive, not live.
With all respect, I don't think the older generation have quite as much experience with what it means to live in such a globalised world. It is a constant struggle for an ever decreasing amount of jobs, with far more people competing than ever before (what with the (rightful) increase of woman into sectors, and removal of employment barriers to non nationals).
They don't want to hire young people, as there is no need to. The natural wastage of different firms, and the high level of competitiveness means that they can simply afford to recruit already experienced people and save on the training and investment.
Please tell me a place that will take a dude with BSc hons and MSc. I'm happy for a lower wage as long as the job is relevant and has progression.
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Put better than myself.
As a graduate, I know that I start from the bottom and work up, I've got no problem with it at all. Try getting ANYWHERE though. Have you seen how many applications there are for each job? How many hoops you've got to jump through just to get to an interview? How they only want the top grades, with companies now also wanting A-Level grades and even GCSE grades in some places!
Of course they are generalisations...the entire point of the post was to elucidate a general perspective...hence the use of the words 'generally', 'some' and the phrase 'not all'....
You are also mistaken if you think the 'older generation' (I assume you are referring to my generation here) do not understand the same problems of finding employment...when I left school in the late 1980s and early 1990s there was no work for younger people, youth unemployment was arguably worse than it is today.
And your last sentence illustrates the point I was making...you will only consider a job if it fits your specific requirements, such as it being relevant (to what?) and has sufficient progression....sometimes you progress through your own hard work and determination, not because the job has it already built in. Those people competing against you simply do not have those preconceived demands and are therefore more likely to be selected. It tough, but then it always was.
Yes it is difficult, doubly so in lean economic times..but the youth today are not in a unique position and unfortunately the idea that a degree guarantees a career is no longer a reality so, like those generations before you who had no opportunity of a university education you find yourselves in a competitive and broad workplace where it is hard work, compromise and determination that determines your success.
Like Bear points out...some of our young are becoming unemployable and unfortunately this impacts on common perceptions which means the rest have another hurdle to surmount.
There are a myriad of graduate programs operated by the majority of companies also, you simply have to prove you are good enough...just like every other applicant.
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This still happens today..the issue is that there are substantially more graduates as substantially more people gain degrees than ever before...this devalues a degree to some extent and therefore the competition becomes harder as employers look for other differentials in determining the best candidates....I disagree that most companies do not look toward UK based applicants before hiring from abroad...it is simply that in some cases the problem lies in the respective suitability of each applicant and what they are willing to do. Yes, it is difficult, but then so is life and people need to understand that employers are simply looking for the best applicants, if you can demonstrate that you are potentially the best then you will invariably be selected.
Exactly, the expectations of some are unrealistic...and this is something I heard time and again. While this is not indicative of the whole, it does impact on public perceptions and is another hurdle that those who are not like the example above have to surmount. I would also point out that this diffulty is not unique to today's young people, it is something that has been going on ever since the old "family business" model disappeared where children generally worked wherever their father worked or followed a predetermined course associated to their class or region.
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Soldato
Isn't that my point though? A graduate cannot be potentially the best because they are a clean slate in many instances. They have very little in the way of experience and job related skills which will take time to nurture.
When you don't have to do such a thing by having a whole new stream of ready trained employees then why would you bother, the best applicants possibly exist without you having to spend any money and time. Companies invariably want the cheapest and easiest option.
Put better than myself.
As a graduate, I know that I start from the bottom and work up, I've got no problem with it at all. Try getting ANYWHERE though. Have you seen how many applications there are for each job? How many hoops you've got to jump through just to get to an interview? How they only want the top grades, with companies now also wanting A-Level grades and even GCSE grades in some places!
Sounds like you're only looking for jobs with large international companies, try looking at smaller more local companies and you will see the application process is much simpler. When you have hundreds of people applying for the job with a range of different backgrounds and form a huge variety of places you'll end up with a complex system designed to weed hundreds out. Looks t the smaller companies, with more local application processes and all you'll need is one or two interviews.
I had this two years ago when I graduated. Apply to the supermajors and large companies and they needed A-levels, assessment days, questionnaires etc., apply to the smaller companies and a couple of interviews sufficed.
If you're worried about progression then perhaps avoid tech firms and join a profession - you'll tend to get a hierarchical structure....
Most important thing is to do something you will enjoy.
Just use the opportunity to buy a holiday property for pocket money, return flights are like £100 opens up a hole new world of going away on a shoe string.
Look at the positives rather than the downs, can already buy properties in your own name, and from the 1st jan can buy agricultural land/forests in your own name.
Look at the positives rather than the downs, can already buy properties in your own name, and from the 1st jan can buy agricultural land/forests in your own name.
I think you're going to have problems if you're just trying to get a 'graduate job' *anywhere*... You'd be better off actually finding something you're interested in and pursuing that.
Man of Honour
Let them come! 
Soldato
This thread is in danger of drifting seriously off-topic but graduates who expect career progression built in? The best way to progress in a career is to get a job, then do the best you can at it and learn anything and everything possible. Big up the role on your CV and move upwards by changing employer. Repeat.
Each move us upwards in job title and salary.
Each move us upwards in job title and salary.
Why then do the majority of UK companies run graduate programs and schemes? A graduate is not a clean slate...not all graduates are created equal...a company looking to recruit entry level graduates will not simply look abroad..they will look to recruit from UK Universities first and it is up to the graduates themselves to distinguish themselves both academically and personally to prospective employers...this might mean accepting interim employment, internships, voluntary work and so on during or after their studies.
I think that you are overplaying the issue regarding graduate opportunities and that UK companies are seeking to bring in foreign skilled workers in place of graduates. I think that there is far more competition because there are far more graduates and that is what is contributing to graduate unemployment, not that companies are importing older, more experienced workers instead of offering training places or graduate schemes.
Companies invariably want the most effective and efficient options, not necessarily the cheapest and easiest.
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Five million people unemployed, millions more underemployed and public services like the NHS and transportation that don't have the capacity for the current population level, a few million more people coming over from Romania and Bulgaria is just what we need (!).
We so need to leave the EU...
We so need to leave the EU...
a few hundred thousand more likely... over a period of a few years
surprisingly enough the vast majority of them will also find work in one of these jobs that supposedly don't exist.... I hope I don't need to point out that employers filling vacancies leads to more growth and more jobs becoming available... currently we've got the fastest growing economy in the developed world and more people in employment than at any other time... yup we've still got a problem with a big chunk of unemployed people though that problem already exists. The reality is that these people will travel hundreds of miles, have to speak a second language and will still find work... a decent portion of the UK's unemployed people are seemingly unwilling to even look towards the next town or city. We do have an issue with a lot of our native unemployed having the attitude that the state owes them a living, being unwilling to move etc.. - we have a good solution in the form of very willing and hard working Eastern Europeans.
surprisingly enough the vast majority of them will also find work in one of these jobs that supposedly don't exist.... I hope I don't need to point out that employers filling vacancies leads to more growth and more jobs becoming available... currently we've got the fastest growing economy in the developed world and more people in employment than at any other time... yup we've still got a problem with a big chunk of unemployed people though that problem already exists. The reality is that these people will travel hundreds of miles, have to speak a second language and will still find work... a decent portion of the UK's unemployed people are seemingly unwilling to even look towards the next town or city. We do have an issue with a lot of our native unemployed having the attitude that the state owes them a living, being unwilling to move etc.. - we have a good solution in the form of very willing and hard working Eastern Europeans.
Which is far more than we can support. God even 1 person is too many.
And there are no vacancies, hence the 5mill unemployed.
The "British are too lazy" line is so tired and clichéd.
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