Soldato
Sounds great, but what do you do when people are unwilling?
29 million Bulgarians and Romanians will gain the right to live and work unrestricted in our country
- Thread starter TnT_ZZZ
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Sounds great, but what do you do when people are unwilling?
Stop giving them handouts.
Soldato
I'm not going to disagree with you there. I'm not sure this actually has any relevance to immigration anyway, though. As Castiel has said (I haven't actually seen the evidence but he seems to be a fairly reliable source
), immigration doesn't actually effect unemployment.
Caporegime
All cultures are not similar in the slightest! look at what happens to Japanese tourists in Paris, such a great difference in culture it's a recognised syndrome. Paris syndrome. Look it up.
And whilst you might see that police scenario, fortunately that's not how it works. Greater resources are allocated to areas with greater levels of crime. You'll also find criminals tend not to...crap in their own nest so to speak. So crimes are committed away from their homes.
There is actually no evidence this is the case either. In most cases benefits are not able to be claimed unless they have lived and worked in the UK for a required length of time (The right to reside test) and also reciprocity within the EU. Aside from this, many economic immigrants (especially those from outside the EU) are skilled with significant incomes. Other taxes are also paid by employers, and the growth in the economy benefits the exchequer in various indirect ways through increased productivity, employment, exports and so on, even when an employee is on or near minimum wage, there is still a net effect on the economy and state revenues.
Sounds great, how do you propose to do this? Get all 2m (it's actually less than that) unemployed into work, I know a bunch of firms struggling to get suitable workers here.
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I used to have this opinion until more recently.
This year I did nearly 50 job interviews for a large city based consultancy, out of all of them probably 2-3 were English, the rest were mostly immigrants on Visas of some sort.
The English guys I interviewed were a joke, most of the immigrants - in particular Indian and Pakistani, were very highly qualified and experienced, miles ahead of everyone else, all gunning for £80k+ salaries.
I was totally surprised by the absolute lack of "plain white english guys" considering we really struggle to fill some roles.
But I don't know - I guess my experience is pretty meaningless, but it was an eye opener for me.
How are they struggling?
They cannot get applicants.
What sort of roles are they recruiting for?
Soldato
that still makes no sense. SO they stay here long enough to qualify for benefits, they then get those benefits to support their income and we ares till left with a bunch of unemployed natives in addition to now forking out for top ups to in work immigrants.
I know not all imigrant workers are here on minimum wage, however I would infer that the majority that come to the UK seeking the gold paved streets are not 100K + consultants / doctors / engineers, but are from the less well off demographic of their own country.
The problems with filling "low wage" jobs in the UK with natives is the fact that they can get more by sitting on their backsides doing nothing. Successive governments have made it too easy to have a comfortable life without working. Therefore in order to fill a lot of these jobs companies have looked to imigrant workers.
I still stand by my original point though, of how does filling jobs with imigrants make financial sense when we already have a case of more people uemployed than jobs available in the UK ? and how does this not affect unemployment considering that job vacancies are finite.........
Caporegime
I'll set you some homework as an experiment.
Take a shed load of fivers, put them in an envelope and send them to Romania. Then explain to me how this was positive for the UK economy.
Take a shed load of fivers, put them in an envelope and send them to Romania. Then explain to me how this was positive for the UK economy.
Soldato
It's not. In general they come over to make a bit of money so they can pay for things back home like an extension on their house due to having growing family and stuff like that. I've read a couple of interviews from Polish migrants that were just trying to earn enough to go back to Poland and open a business.
Soldato
It's more than balanced out as a decade long study has shown that EU immigrants contribute more in taxes than they take in benefits.
The exact figure is one of the earlier posts, something like 11%.
This might change in the future but it's unlikely to be by a massive amount as there isn't a massive change. Just two more countries populations allowed to work here compared to 2004 when we had Poland, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania etc.. Plus back in 2004 only the UK, Ireland, and Sweden opened their doors to these new countries.
A wide spectrum of roles both unskilled and skilled.
Caporegime
What about expenses other than just benefits though? Did the study take into account the increased infrastructure, health care, police etc? Or was it purely tax vs benefits?
Far above minimum wages. For example, I know at least one of our local bus companies need at least 20 drivers...training is provided and wages are around the 20-22k a year mark. One of our supermarkets is recruiting both full and part time staff, wages begin at £7.50 an hour. My wife firm is having difficulty recruiting various skilled positions, from developers to accountants, again at competitive rates.
In fact my wife's firm is considering moving base toward London in an attempt to find staff...she doesn't want to commute so found a new job (which she starts in Feb) within two weeks of looking.
There are plenty of jobs to be had, you just need two things..motivation and the ability to move to where the work is.
It was a study which looked at the entire economic and social impact of the EU policy.
Is that really your best response.
Clearly the cost and benefit of moving would be determined on an individual basis..however there is a broad spectrum of jobs at increasing rates of pay and different levels of skill to be had. If you are suggesting that a British worker cannot move or commute for work then therein lies one reason why employers must continue to look elsewhere.
If someone is willing to move 900 miles for work, why is is incredulous to expect someone else to move 50?
In any case, if we are to fill all these vacancies with British people, how do you suggest we do that without increasing mobility within the workforce?
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