AMD's FSR3 possibly next month ?

[Nexus18]

Unless it changes in a later release, I dont think we can be saying it is a teething problem that Vsync must be on. AMD say that it needs to be on to pace the frames. Do we feel like that will change in future releases?

"Using the AMD FSR 3 swapchain, VSync enabled and disabled modes are the main differentiators in terms of frame pacing. When VSync is enabled, pacing relies on the expected refresh rate of the monitor and will present game frames as quickly as makes sense – as ultimately, the monitor will swap to the queued frame images in a consistent way behind the scenes."

To me it sounds like that is why they are focusing on pairing with Anti-Lag and Anti-Lag+ for 7000 series cards. To negate the loss of not using Enhanced Sync when using VSync.

Yeah I think if this was something that was fixable, amd would have said so? Given they have addressed the frame pacing issues..... But it's ok, AMD Reddit users have decided that vrr isn't necessary now

Might actually be useful for me - I have issues with flickering with VRR Much prefer to just hit the 100 Hz max refresh of my monitor, but that can be a struggle both CPU and GPU wise.

Out of interest, freesync it gsync ultimate monitor?

 

[Vexr]

Yeah I think if this was something that was fixable, amd would have said so? Given they have addressed the frame pacing issues..... But it's ok, AMD Reddit users have decided that vrr isn't necessary now


Out of interest, freesync it gsync ultimate monitor?

Standard Free sync monitor from January 2019

 

[K1LaW8tt5]

Yeah I think if this was something that was fixable, amd would have said so? Given they have addressed the frame pacing issues..... But it's ok, AMD Reddit users have decided that vrr isn't necessary now

AMD should be looking to get FG working together with VRR. But do you not think the two technologies contradict each other somewhat?
VRR will adjust your monitors refreshrate to meet the achievable FPS?
FG injects fake frames to meet a target refresh rate?

The bigger concern for AMD is that their FG isn't working properly with anti-lag so there is no reduction in latency.

 

[Nexus18]

AMD should be looking to get FG working together with VRR. But do you not think the two technologies contradict each other somewhat?
VRR will adjust your monitors refreshrate to meet the achievable FPS?
FG injects fake frames to meet a target refresh rate?

The bigger concern for AMD is that their FG isn't working properly with anti-lag so there is no reduction in latency.

Not at all because they both achieve very different things:

- frame gen increases your FPS which is pretty important if you have a high refresh rate display so this should be looked at purely as a FPS booster, as shown in my videos, in order to achieve smooth(er) gaming with frame gen specifically fsr 3 here, you need to be hitting your screen max refresh rate which is incredibly hard if you're at a high Res. thus in order to be maintaing your screen refresh rate at all times, you have to be reducing settings or/and use a lower preset of fsr, which kind of makes fsr 3 pointless

Of course if you're gaming at say 1080p 75-100hz with a powerful gpu then vrr won't be as much of a benefit since you'll be probably easily hitting the refresh rate of your screen (but still won't have the benefit of lower input lag)

- vrr is there to smooth out variable FPS ranges and eliminate screen tearing whilst also having the least amount of input lag (as you're not using vsync)

Vrr is absolutely vital for pc gaming.

I think the input lag is pretty good for fsr 3, vrr is a far more pressing matter.

 

[Grim5]

I assume once VRR is working with fsr3 the latency difference between it and DLSS will narrow

 

[K1LaW8tt5]

Not at all because they both achieve very different things:

- frame gen increases your FPS which is pretty important if you have a high refresh rate display so this should be looked at purely as a FPS booster, as shown in my videos, in order to achieve smooth(er) gaming with frame gen specifically fsr 3 here, you need to be hitting your screen max refresh rate which is incredibly hard if you're at a high Res. thus in order to be maintaing your screen refresh rate at all times, you have to be reducing settings or/and use a lower preset of fsr, which kind of makes fsr 3 pointless

Of course if you're gaming at say 1080p 75-100hz with a powerful gpu then vrr won't be as much of a benefit since you'll be probably easily hitting the refresh rate of your screen (but still won't have the benefit of lower input lag)

- vrr is there to smooth out variable FPS ranges and eliminate screen tearing whilst also having the least amount of input lag (as you're not using vsync)

Vrr is absolutely vital for pc gaming.

I think the input lag is pretty good for fsr 3, vrr is a far more pressing matter.

In the right combinations it can probably work(whatever that even means) but you are not going to be able to use FG to close a 100Hz gap so yes VRR will be essential then.


I thought from both videos that AMDs antilag+ wasn't working with FG in either of the two games. but reflex was working on nvidia gpus

 

[Grim5]

In the right combinations it can probably work(whatever that even means) but you are not going to be able to use FG to close a 100Hz gap so yes VRR will be essential then.


I thought from both videos that AMDs antilag+ wasn't working with FG in either of the two games. but reflex was working on nvidia gpus

The HUB videos results show anti lag is absolutely working on the AMD GPU, it does not work on Nvidia GPU.

Reasons why I say so:

* Look at the chart with latency, with FSR3, the AMD GPU has lower latency than the Nvidia GPU with FSR3 - that's because anti lag is on for the AMD GPU and off for Nvidia

* Same chart, look at latency with FSR3 on and off, the AMD GPU has the same or slightly lower latency with FSR3 on than off. We know from previous testing that fake frames increase latency not decrease it, so the fact that latency on AMD is the same with FSR3 on or off again means Antilag is on and working otherwise latency would be 20ms higher

 

[TheRealDeal]

The HUB videos results show anti lag is absolutely working on the AMD GPU, it does not work on Nvidia GPU.

Reasons why I say so:

* Look at the chart with latency, with FSR3, the AMD GPU has lower latency than the Nvidia GPU with FSR3 - that's because anti lag is on for the AMD GPU and off for Nvidia

* Same chart, look at latency with FSR3 on and off, the AMD GPU has the same or slightly lower latency with FSR3 on than off. We know from previous testing that fake frames increase latency not decrease it, so the fact that latency on AMD is the same with FSR3 on or off again means Antilag is on and working otherwise latency would be 20ms higher

Antilag+ is way better than normal Antilag though. For now though when they get it working it's only for 7 series.

 

[TheRealDeal]

Funny reading this thread. The most upset people are those rocking Nvidia cards wanting a hand me down from AMD. My advice is be patient, AMD will get there in the end. As a current gen AMD buyer i am just glad i got a card for a half decent price. You guys know on your last gen hardware uncle Jen ain't giving you those fake frames. It's going to take Aunty Lisa a bit longer as she's to busy taking on Uncle Bill in the cpu world.

 

[hyperseven]

Antilag+ is way better than normal Antilag though. For now though when they get it working it's only for 7 series.

Is that why it has a plus at the end, would never have figured that out otherwise.

 

[chris85oc]

Funny reading this thread. The most upset people are those rocking Nvidia cards wanting a hand me down from AMD. My advice is be patient, AMD will get there in the end. As a current gen AMD buyer i am just glad i got a card for a half decent price. You guys know on your last gen hardware uncle Jen ain't giving you those fake frames. It's going to take Aunty Lisa a bit longer as she's to busy taking on Uncle Bill in the cpu world.

Difference between a feature that works better but on limited hardware ( cause it uses hardware ) vs one that’s worse but works on everything (software).

All NV vs AMD features show the same pattern.

Yes Nvidia could have had DLSS work on everything and it would be worse, like FSR. The difference is huge now, DLSS balanced beats FSR quality in most titles.

Same with Gsync vs Freesync ( albeit here the differences arent as stark, but still exist ) same with DLSSFg vs FSRFg. DLSSFg could work on 2xxx and 3xxx series, even Nvidia said so. However the experience would be bad. In most cases it would barely add frames/latency would be higher etc. Then you’d have all those people bashing the tech saying it’s crap cause their experience would be crap. Just like RT on 1xxx series. Remember? People complained, RT was made available on 1xxx series, and surprise, it ran like ass, hardware couldnt handle it vs 2xxx which had the actual hardware to run it.

Same with RT ( huge in games that use heavier RT, like CP2077, ratchet and clank, portal PT, etc ). I’ll also never understand people buying top end hardware ( take 4080 vs 7900xtx ) and not wanting their games to look as good as they can. I mean, why pay top dollar? 500 fps in counterstrike? Especially pc gamers that were like ‘gotta turn ultra on’ even if ultra made no difference and crippled performance. Suddenly RT which makes a huge difference in some titles and barely any in others ( light RT games which work fine on AMD, obviously ) is ‘pointless’ and a ‘gimmick’. Come on, are those people for real, think anyone’s buying it? )))

Everyone will complain because of different reasons, AMD users from jealousy / not being able to justify spending the money, Nv users from previous gens out of frustration that the new features arent available on their hardware etc. Doesn’t change reality though.

 

[ICDP]

Funny reading this thread. The most upset people are those rocking Nvidia cards wanting a hand me down from AMD. My advice is be patient, AMD will get there in the end. As a current gen AMD buyer i am just glad i got a card for a half decent price. You guys know on your last gen hardware uncle Jen ain't giving you those fake frames. It's going to take Aunty Lisa a bit longer as she's to busy taking on Uncle Bill in the cpu world.

I haven’t been keeping track because I don’t care about fake frames at all. I don’t like Nvidia’s version and I haven’t even tried AMDs. I have a 7900 XT and a 4080, so could easily compare both.

But without reading the tread I bet it’s the usual handful of Nvidia fans here doing the sniping at AMD. It’s not because they want FSR to succeed, but because they want it to fail.

 

[stooeh]

OK, after watching the Hardware Unboxed video today I gleaned a nugget of info so I think I know what's going on now with Frame Gen and VRR (still testing in the Forspoken demo here as that's all I've got to test)....

Some of us know that if you can constantly match your monitor refresh rate and have frame gen on then it's all smooth with good framepacing. This is to be expected really and it's obviously no test of VRR working or not.

However, what Tim revealed in the HUb video is that if your framerate is within around 20fps of your refresh rate then perceptually VRR will work ok and you will see decent framepacing and smoothness. This is what was going on with my tests yesterday I think!

My monitor is 120Hz and I was running the game at max settings but with FSR upscaling at quality and frame gen on - this was getting me around 100-110fps all the time (So within 20fps of my max refresh rate) and this did feel smooth and like VRR was working.

So I then tested with 'native AA' (ie no upscaling) and frame gen on and this brought the FPS down to around 75, and then this definitely fees llke VRR is not working properly at all. It seems quite random depending on where you look in the game thoiugh e.g looking at a cliff face and slowly panning with the controller is perfectly smooth, but looking in another direction and slowly panning is not at all (the fps is roughly the same in both scenarios though, so it's very strange). Overall though - the frame pacing is definitely not good at lower FPS!

In conclusion then, FSR 3 frame gen definitely needs some work when it comes to VRR. Will AMD be able to solve this is the killer question???? If not, it's totally dead in the water for me. VRR and total smoothness/ good framepacing is an absolute must for my gaming.

This was my experience on the LG OLED and I took a very brief clip showing the juddering on frame time graph at ~75 fps vs lowering a couple of settings to get ~100 fps or using FSR upscaling to get ~120.

Spoiler

I also tried it on my old PC connected to a Dell 144Hz monitor with actual gsync module but I could not replicate the judder at lower FPS...

 

[GhostDog1981]

Funny reading this thread. The most upset people are those rocking Nvidia cards wanting a hand me down from AMD. My advice is be patient, AMD will get there in the end. As a current gen AMD buyer i am just glad i got a card for a half decent price. You guys know on your last gen hardware uncle Jen ain't giving you those fake frames. It's going to take Aunty Lisa a bit longer as she's to busy taking on Uncle Bill in the cpu world.

Does current gen AI cores (7000 series) get used at all in FMF or FSR3?

 

[z10m]

Does current gen AI cores (7000 series) get used at all in FMF or FSR3?

Don’t think so as it runs exactly the same on Nvidia cards.

 

[GhostDog1981]

Don’t think so as it runs exactly the same on Nvidia cards.

That’s a shame. What are the AI cores for then?

 

[z10m]

That’s a shame. What are the AI cores for then?

That I can’t tell you.

 

[z10m]

This was my experience on the LG OLED and I took a very brief clip showing the juddering on frame time graph at ~75 fps vs lowering a couple of settings to get ~100 fps or using FSR upscaling to get ~120.

Spoiler

I also tried it on my old PC connected to a Dell 144Hz monitor with actual gsync module but I could not replicate the judder at lower FPS...

Besides broken vrr there appears to be another issue where it stutters much more than it should on non vrr display at lower framerates.

 

[MadMossy]

Besides broken vrr there appears to be another issue where it stutters much more than it should on non vrr display at lower framerates.

AMD have talked about that, VRR is working on the gpuopen version, apparently the 2 games with FSR3 are using an older version that's bugged.

 

[Nexus18]

Funny reading this thread. The most upset people are those rocking Nvidia cards wanting a hand me down from AMD. My advice is be patient, AMD will get there in the end. As a current gen AMD buyer i am just glad i got a card for a half decent price. You guys know on your last gen hardware uncle Jen ain't giving you those fake frames. It's going to take Aunty Lisa a bit longer as she's to busy taking on Uncle Bill in the cpu world.

Upset? For re-iterating the major oversights as pointed out by every tech source now?

And this is the problem again with amd fans outlook and why amd will not improve until the mindset of amd fans changes, "be patient", how long do amd customers have to wait for until they get an equal experience to their competitors? Bearing in mind the current prices aren't much different, had amd priced considerably cheaper to reflect their shortcomings then yes, you can expect to be waiting months/years..... Yes, this is amds first release and it is very good in the grand scheme of things especially since it works on a wide range of hardware (as pointed out by Richard too) but at the end of the day, they are still competing and to have a vrr not working is a major oversight. As proven by the tech press, there is no point releasing something let alone customers using it if it is going to provide a considerably worse experience.

It's frustrating for me and others because essentially as it right now, we don't have any choice in the pc gaming space if you care about ray tracing, good upscaling (which regardless of what people say, is required on all gpus if you're a high res and refresh rate gamer) and now fake frames (which is becoming more relevant due to shoddy pc releases and poor cpu utilisation etc.), again, this is no ones fault but amds and it's not helping when you have amd fans constantly defending their mistakes and stating utterly ridiculous things like "oh vrr isn't really needed anyway" or "just wait".

AMD have talked about that, VRR is working on the gpuopen version, apparently the 2 games with FSR3 are using an older version that's bugged.

Link?

If true, they need to have some major restructuring over there, you're already late to the market so why be late with a **** version? Better to be late with a much better version. Imagine how much more glowing the tech press videos would have been had VRR and some of the other issues been sorted.....