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DirectX 12

Mantle is available to GCN AMD GPUs (sub-30%, probably around 20%)

If you were a developer about to start making a game, would you bother tacking Mantle on

If I'm getting paid to yes, aka GE or PhysX/GW with TWIMTBP, otherwise probably not, unless it was a SC type crowd funded cash cow.

given that AMD themselves admit it takes considerable time to implement?

AMD state the oposite, Oxide state the oposite-2 months with 1 coder.

Sure, the gains are worth it against DX11, but DX12?

We will find out, if DX Mantle does Mantles job and improves on it, it's win win for everyone.

If Mantle can outperform DX Mantle due to better optimisation and already more titles released by the time DX Mantle lands, then it's going to be beneficial to AMD users playing on enabled engines-Frostbite, Cryengine etc.
 
Nvidia themselves claim:



http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/03/20/directx-12/#sthash.LVmkRK5x.dpuf

Wtf does market share have to do with DX Mantle anyway?

First I would say, Cambofrog originally posted this

Sometimes I have to lol at you Charlie, AMD are very much small time, they have less than 10% market share. AMD with all those fingers in those console pies, yet cannot make a profit, their last couple of fiscal years reported losses. Ok a profit this quarter but 2014 outlook is looking not very rosy in the slightest. To take anything away from nVidia's 90% market share they will have to do a lot more than have a few GPU's in some consoles. There is no bigger player in gaming right now ? Only you could believe that.

It was completely insane claim and i merely posted with you know, facts. In my reply I already said Nvidia have around a 55% discrete gpu market share.

People have been posting numbers like "amd's is going down, Nvidia is going up", they change every quarter. AMD was down 2% this quarter, but they were up 2% the quarter before and the reverse was true for Nvidia, that's how it works.

His first post was clearly trolling, using painfully obviously flawed statistics, then it should be noted this claim was on page 9, laughed at by most, then 9 pages later(for me) he quoted it with a link saying Nvidia has 90% of the professional market segment..... at which point yes, what does the professional market segment have to do with DX12 or gaming... answer, nothing.


So outside of the fact people do game on both Intel and AMD APU's, meaning discrete instantly becomes a dodgy barometer of the "gaming" segment, and the fact that AMD is now shipping in 5 of the 6 biggest selling consoles(last gen they had roughly speaking 2/3rd's of the sales, Wii highest, Ps3 next, Xbox behind, but this gen it's entirely AMD ps3/360/wii sales are tanking/tanked and the console market share is going to creep from around 65% to probably 90-95%). It's fairly easy to see how a 55% discrete PC only market share, drops significantly for Nvidia when considering "gaming" in general.

I haven't claimed anything incorrect. Even the total pc gpu market including APU's isn't an accurate barometer because of consoles. However it's also commonly held knowledge that Nvidia low end volume is huge, and this is because of a huge lead in laptops where Intel owns AMD and lets say very few OEM's are encouraged to put AMD discrete gpu's in Intel laptops. The majority of those aren't for gaming either like AMD's low end, but Nvidia's low end is significantly bigger than AMD's as the largest pc market is low end laptops with crap $30(to laptop makers) gpu's.

I'm only responding because Cambofrog has repeated his 90% market share claim multiple times, consistently quoting me, with links that prove I'm right. He is clear as day trolling, I don't think market share is particularly important by any metric because frankly there aren't statistics to prove it either way.

I fully accept that maybe Nvidia has a lead in discrete for gaming, logically for the reasons above I doubt it, but it's possible. However all I claimed statistically was Nvidia had a 55% market share in discrete and it's around 20 vs 16% on average over the last year, maybe closer to 19 vs 17%.
 
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DX12 is available to all DX11 Nvidia GPUs and GCN-equipped AMD GPUs (probably 70%+ discrete GPUs)

Mantle is available to GCN AMD GPUs (sub-30%, probably around 20%)

If you were a developer about to start making a game, would you bother tacking Mantle on, given that AMD themselves admit it takes considerable time to implement? Sure, the gains are worth it against DX11, but DX12?

Can you not see the flawed logic there? Crysis aimed the highest quality at unreleased cards from either manufacturer or a 0% market share. 3d/eyefinity/hd3d are included in many games yet combined these guys make up less than 1% of the market segment. Game dev's for the past 20 years have included features and support for absolutely tiny fractions of the market, by comparison 20% is god damned huge and well more than worth it.

Also as someone else said AMD have absolutely not admitted it takes considerable time to implement, every single dev using it has said precisely the opposite and AMD have said nothing remotely close to that.
 
Nvidia chap says future GPUs will be needed to fully support all DX12 features:

http://techreport.com/news/26210/directx-12-will-also-add-new-features-for-next-gen-gpus

I suspected something like this and was surprised when it was announced DX12 would be compatible with older cards which is fantastic news, then upgrade to a future GPU for all the new features, I'm a very happy bunny, PC gaming is moving in the right direction with a little boot up the arse from AMD.

Good times ahead for PC gamers. ;)
 
this is very good news for the green team.

Indeed it is, I do wonder where this will leave Mantle though, with new features also to be announced for full DX12 surely AMD would have to start to implement more features for Mantle if they want to compete with DX12. For me it'll be win for DX12 as it will support red and green where as Mantle will be for AMD users only.
 
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I'm hoping Mantle will be an alternative like OpenGL is. I cant see why we cant have the option of DX/OGL/Mantle games. You never know.. Nvidia may adopt Mantle in their next gen cards. Nobody knows right now.. nobody knows what the future will bring :)

All i know is PC gaming can only get better now.

Were all winners :)
 
I'm hoping Mantle will be an alternative like OpenGL is. I cant see why we cant have the option of DX/OGL/Mantle games. You never know.. Nvidia may adopt Mantle in their next gen cards. Nobody knows right now.. nobody knows what the future will bring :)

All i know is PC gaming can only get better now.

Were all winners :)


Nvidia have aligned themselves with Console loving Microsoft, how ironic, they will never take up Mantle even if DX12 turns out to be the Damp Squib i suspect it will.

Microsoft don't want PC gaming to get any better than it already is, what they want is for you to dump your Desktop, buy an XB1 and pay them a monthly free for the privilege of playing games online.

What i find interesting is that at least one Developer is bringing their Engine (Cry Engine) to Mantle amidst all the DX12 noise while not one Developer has said anything about DX12, other than a console only developer.

Nvidia have got into bed with the dark side to distract from Mantle. :)
 
I'll never pay a monthly fee for gaming. I came from the Playstation side of console gaming to PC. Never had an Xbox.. never will.

The day they charge for gaming on all platforms is the day i quit gaming.
 
I'll never pay a monthly fee for gaming. I came from the Playstation side of console gaming to PC. Never had an Xbox.. never will.

The day they charge for gaming on all platforms is the day i quit gaming.

I was the same but now i happily pay for ps plus as i get 1 free game per month on my ps3 and ps4. It's a good deal for me as i don't often buy games as i am to picky.
 
Nvidia have aligned themselves with Console loving Microsoft, how ironic, they will never take up Mantle even if DX12 turns out to be the Damp Squib i suspect it will.

Microsoft don't want PC gaming to get any better than it already is, what they want is for you to dump your Desktop, buy an XB1 and pay them a monthly free for the privilege of playing games online.

What i find interesting is that at least one Developer is bringing their Engine (Cry Engine) to Mantle amidst all the DX12 noise while not one Developer has said anything about DX12, other than a console only developer.

Nvidia have got into bed with the dark side to distract from Mantle. :)

Microsoft + nVidia = :cool:

Certainly not a bad thing for nVidia users.
 
Microsoft + nVidia = :cool:

Certainly not a bad thing for nVidia users.

Lol Microsoft are your enemy as a pc gamer but as long as they love Nvidia it's fine. Can't beat the sheep. Amd put out an article around 5 years ago stating that dx was holding pc's back as everyone was blaming consoles when it was your friends mr microsoft with dx. Amd at least are trying to help pc gaming with mantle along with there selves. Nvidia the as long as we are alright company, we will only help our selves in the mean time do nothing as business is good. Lets be honest with 2 out of 3 of these attitudes pc gaming is going no where fast.

My ps4 is being played more than my PC for a reason these days after being an avid pc gamer for the last 14 years. Pc is no longer special which it was when i first started.
 
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Microsoft + nVidia = :cool:

Certainly not a bad thing for nVidia users.

Your very short sighted, with Nvidia helping MS to monopolise GFX API's its a very bad thing for the PC gaming industry, that includes you.
You just can't see past your own euphoria of what you perceive as an Nvidia vs AMD win, your wrong about that too.
 
Lol Microsoft are your enemy as a pc gamer but as long as they love Nvidia it's fine. Can't beat the sheep. Amd put out an article around 5 years ago stating that dx was holding pc's back as everyone was blaming consoles when it was your friends mr microsoft with dx. Amd at least are trying to help pc gaming with mantle along with there selves. Nvidia the as long s we are alright we will only help our selves in the mean time do nothing as business is good. Lets be honest with 2 out of 3 of these attitudes pc gaming is going no where fast.

How are Microsoft my enemy? For the last God knows how long, they have been my platform for gaming.

Your very short sighted, with Nvidia helping MS to monopolise GFX API's its a very bad thing for the PC gaming industry, that includes you.
You just can't see past your own euphoria of what you perceive as an Nvidia vs AMD win, your wrong about that too.

I have endured thread after thread of Mantle and how cool it is and how closed it is and how nVidia are in trouble blah blah blah. A snippet of a rumour that nVidia are tucked up with Microsoft and yer, I am chuffed to bits with it.
 
Your very short sighted, with Nvidia helping MS to monopolise GFX API's its a very bad thing for the PC gaming industry, that includes you.
You just can't see past your own euphoria of what you perceive as an Nvidia vs AMD win, your wrong about that too.

Hang on, a few days ago you were telling me that creating a new group or allowing khronos to control Mantle was madness and that it should be handed to Microsoft to look after, now you are hating on microsoft, make your mind up mate

Nvidia have aligned themselves with Console loving Microsoft, how ironic, they will never take up Mantle even if DX12 turns out to be the Damp Squib i suspect it will.

Microsoft don't want PC gaming to get any better than it already is, what they want is for you to dump your Desktop, buy an XB1 and pay them a monthly free for the privilege of playing games online.

What i find interesting is that at least one Developer is bringing their Engine (Cry Engine) to Mantle amidst all the DX12 noise while not one Developer has said anything about DX12, other than a console only developer.

Nvidia have got into bed with the dark side to distract from Mantle. :)

DX12 has been announced a few days, Mantle 5 months or so, hardly surprising that developers arent clamouring to announce support considering its still months away from being released to devs

Oh, and Cloud Imperium (Star Citizen) have already stated they will be adding DX12 support, considering they were the first non-DICE/EA signup, it does dampen mantle's shiny exterior slightly
 
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How are Microsoft my enemy? For the last God knows how long, they have been my platform for gaming.



I have endured thread after thread of Mantle and how cool it is and how closed it is and how nVidia are in trouble blah blah blah. A snippet of a rumour that nVidia are tucked up with Microsoft and yer, I am chuffed to bits with it.

It would seem you don't understand about dx and it holding the pc back for years. Why do you think everyone is raving about dx12 and low level. Could this have been done years ago. Without understanding the ins and out's it has been talked about for years since the original xbox arrived that Microsoft were no longer interested in the PC. I don't know how long you have been into gaming but things with dx went down hill not to long after the xbox arrived. Dx9 was as good as it got. Theres still quit a lot of games that are developed on a very old platform.
 
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