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DirectX 12

Gregster said:
Yer, I am honestly scratching my head at the guys who are questioning older cards playing DX12. If newer DX's has taught us anything, it is the ability to run games more efficiently and breathe longevity into an older card. I only see this as good and don't see the need to dismiss older cards as "too old and don't count"

I didn't realise we had so many snobs on the forums :p
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I know right?

Lets take Humbug for example, we know he loves is 7870 and we also know he hates spending money. So by the time DX12 rolls out in full force surely he should be happy if DX12 breathes a bit of extra life into his then 3-4 year old card which he won't have to replace?

The same applies to all of those on older hardware, be it limited to HD7000 and above or GTX400 series and above.

Didn't someone last week kick off because it was suggested if you can't upgrade your hardware for the latest and greatest you probably shouldn't be PC Gaming? Yet here we are saying the older gear is irrelevant.
 
TheRealDeal said:
Early access for what though as the first game for dx12 is Christmas next year by which time hopefully the cards you listed are mid range.
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Ask MS.

And unless MS changed their mind but I doubt it and will believe when they say it themselves :

From the other thread:

EDIT : Microsoft confirms DirectX 11.2 is a Windows 8.1, Xbox One exclusive.


So if it does not get DX11.2 it ain't going to get DX12.

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/.../directx-11-2/ < seems done today, try later.
 
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pgi947 said:
I know right?

Lets take Humbug for example, we know he loves is 7870 and we also know he hates spending money. So by the time DX12 rolls out in full force surely he should be happy if DX12 breathes a bit of extra life into his then 3-4 year old card which he won't have to replace?

The same applies to all of those on older hardware, be it limited to HD7000 and above or GTX400 series and above.

Didn't someone last week kick off because it was suggested if you can't upgrade your hardware for the latest and greatest you probably shouldn't be PC Gaming? Yet here we are saying the older gear is irrelevant.
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I replace my GPU about once a year, i spend money when i need to, not just for the sake of it, if that makes me tight fisted then yes i'm tight fisted. :D
 
humbug said:
Will it have Aero? get rid of those horrid pastel colour tiles, will it look less like it was designed by a 5 year old using crayons?

Will it stop trying prioritise those awful windows Apps for everything that it can? will i actually be able to exit those windows App's fully if i do ever use them? this instead of them pretending to be off while actually running in the background using resources and monitoring your activities, sending that data to Microsoft's partners to sell on to commercial spammers?
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It does a lot of what you want it to.

The app closing (Which you can close already, you just swipe in and drag 'n drop, or right click and close) but puts them in a traditional type window now.

Has a proper start button.

As a desktop user I barely see the modern UI at all, I'd be surprised if you were any different (I mean, really, what can we use Modern UI for?)
 
Don't read too much into it, was purely an example of why supporting older GPU's with a low level API is important.

I'll be honest, it wouldn't hurt if AMD managed to wriggle in DX12 support as far back as the HD5000 series. 5850+ are still fairly capable in DX11 titles, I can't see that changing much with DX12's apparent increase in performance.
 
pgi947 said:
Don't read too much into it, was purely an example of why supporting older GPU's with a low level API is important.

I'll be honest, it wouldn't hurt if AMD managed to wriggle in DX12 support as far back as the HD5000 series. 5850+ are still fairly capable in DX11 titles, I can't see that changing much with DX12's apparent increase in performance.
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I don't know, and they might. don't forget all of this is just Nvidia noise, have AMD themselves actually said older GPU will not be compatible?
 
humbug said:
Whose knocking older GPU's? i'm certainly not.



Will it have Aero? get rid of those horrid pastel colour tiles, will it look less like it was designed by a 5 year old using crayons?

Will it stop trying prioritise those awful windows Apps for everything that it can? will i actually be able to exit those windows App's fully if i do ever use them? this instead of them pretending to be off while actually running in the background using resources and monitoring your activities, sending that data to Microsoft's partners to sell on to commercial spammers?
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XP looks like a Fisherprice toy so not much difference.

Win 8+ can look way you want it to look and with Aero.



2ihns4i.png



2e4w40g.png



j1109d.png
 
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humbug said:
I don't know, and they might. don't forget all of this is just Nvidia noise, have AMD themselves actually said older GPU will not be compatible?
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Re-read the wording of my post, I didn't say AMD will 100% not support older cards, I said it wouldn't hurt if they added support for cards as far back as the HD5000 series.

You're right, they might. Though if they were I would have thought something would have been said by now, though going by Mantle I don't think AMD care all too much about non-GCN hardware.
 
jh30uk said:
XP looks like a Fisherprice toy so not much difference.

Win 8+ can look way you want it to look and with Aero.
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I used to use the Zune theme with Windows XP and some tweaks to colors, smaller window controls, etc. - made it look a lot less fisherprice toy.
 
humbug said:
Whose knocking older GPU's? i'm certainly not.
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Don't be paranoid Humbug, I never said you :p (dem aliens tut).

You only have to go back a couple of pages and read to see.

pgi947 said:
Don't read too much into it, was purely an example of why supporting older GPU's with a low level API is important.

I'll be honest, it wouldn't hurt if AMD managed to wriggle in DX12 support as far back as the HD5000 series. 5850+ are still fairly capable in DX11 titles, I can't see that changing much with DX12's apparent increase in performance.
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I see a lot of people still rocking 5 series cards as well, so good shout.

humbug said:
I don't know, and they might. don't forget all of this is just Nvidia noise, have AMD themselves actually said older GPU will not be compatible?
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I make nVidia right though. It is a big thing to have backward compatible hardware and I would also be making the same noise. It is clear this isn't an option for AMD, or they would also be making the same noise but they have only sang about GCN being compatible.

I see games like Hitman Absolution and can't believe how poorly it runs on my hardware. It could be a driver/game engine/DX thing but anything that gets my current hardware usage better is good and I have said a couple of times now that I want to keep my Titans for another couple of years and if DX12/DX11 nVidia enhancements gives me that HW boost that is needed, that is a massive plus in my book.
 
Rroff said:
I used to use the Zune theme with Windows XP and some tweaks to colors, smaller window controls, etc. - made it look a lot less fisherprice toy.
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Off Topic :

I used the leaked MCE Themes that was later allowed to be used by MS and called Royale and Slate AFAIR (XP).

@humbug, that is the latest Win8.1 Update 1 but Full Aero is 3rd party making the Aero (BigMuscle made it) but its does use the MS Symbols that WU grabs you if you run his App.

There is a version called Aero Lite hidden in Win8+versions but it is disabled after Beta testing for each RTM build.

That and another 3rd party App called "OldNewExplorer" makes it all very useable over default.

Both Apps are on this site : http://www.msfn.org/board/forum/174-windows-8/

Oh and ClassicShell esp. for the Start Menu side of it, rest does not bother me so do not use.

I updated my above post with 2 more screens of it, may help you decide to jump and get those much needed extra FPS in Win8+ ;)
 
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jh30uk said:
Off Topic :

I used the leaked MCE Themes that was later allowed to be used by MS and called Royale and Slate AFAIR (XP).

@Humbug, that is the latest Win8.1 Update 1 but Full Aero is 3rd party making the Aero (BigMuscle made it) but its does use the MS Symbols that WU grabs you if you run his App.

There is a version called Aero Lite hidden in Win8+versions but it is disabled after Beta testing for each RTM build.

That and another 3rd party App called "OldNewExplorer" makes it all very useable over default.

Both Apps are on this site : http://www.msfn.org/board/forum/174-windows-8/

Oh and ClassicShell esp. for the Start Menu side of it, rest does not bother me so do not use.

I updated my above post with 2 more screens of it, may help you decide to jump and get those much needed extra FPS in Win8+ ;)
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Thanks for all that. I couldn't find a topic in the OS Room related to this, do you know of one where i can post comments questions on this?

To keep this thread on Topic :)

 
I think AMD are being stupid in how they are doing business...

I predict AMD will fall at some point...Currently they are fighting against:
NVidia
Intel
Microsoft
and others

If i were them i wouldnt be focusing on trying to broaden the product range but infact focusing on out doing them...

Nvidia and Intel are doing well no matter what people think because they are focusing on their main products: gpu's and cpu's respectively...

Mantle is a mistake. They should have focused on key specific areas in how they're products are being developed...

Both Nvidia and Intel are changing their products at a fundamental manufacturing level (microsoft is, well, microsoft and monopolising the software...)...

AMD are using older tech and "clocking it up" to keep up and compete.

With too many front lines and sooner or later the lines will fall...

IMO to compete and gain future ability to not only compete at top end but to surpass is to focus on what they are known for which is "value for money" but not in a way that traps them, but seriously * own * the budget to mid range. Not just come out with the same tech and add more flippin cores or whatever...

This in turn will give money to develop top end and then compete top end...

I ask you a question and if you were to honestly answer (putting aside "fan based" opinion) if you were to buy top end, no budget, what would you buy?

something along the lines of titan Z, i7 4930 perhaps? or super computer Dual CPU, quad sli titan z's?

Of course AMD need to develop top end stuff but unfortunately the top end is not as efficient as the other companies therefore what's the point...

If their goal is value for money and you're bringing out stuff that is just behind, no wonder AMD are overall failing and requires, no, ** Needs! ** fan based loyalty to keep it afloat...

the lower end is where intel and NVidia are weakest yet you see more 460's and 500 series than others? and directx 12 is compatible with them?

AMD should own the low to mid range - leading low to mid range to secure it's future

AMD are too focused on short term and not enough long term.

The 1st thing you think of for mid to low range should be AMD but right now it's a mess and it really depends on knowing exactly what you are going to use the computer for...

example something like (off the top of my head of what i think is best for each purpose)
Budget = kaveri / pentium
CAD = i3
multimedia = fx 6300 / i3
Gaming = i5
Rendering = i7
Serious = 2011 socket

what is AMD doing? lower £££ for what? Hotter older tech with less single core efficiency? so only if your purchasing budget is tight as hell would you consider AMD?

The R7 / R9 GPU series are a thorn in NVidia's side but still 800 series is just around the corner and with lower long term prospects due to poorer relationships and poorer designs
 
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