*** Elden Ring ***

[unwashed potato!]

I'd never want their games to change just so that I could have an easier time

this is where you're getting it wrong. no one ever said the game should be easier for you, in fact, the suggestion is, make it exactly as hard as you want it, but also allow the same option for others to have it as hard as they want it.

what's you've kind of said is, gay marriage shouldn't be allowed as i'm straight and i only want to marry someone of the opposite sex. gay marriage doesn't mean you have to marry same sex now

people talk about how fun the exploration is. someone like me, who wants an easy mode option can't experience this, they can't experience the amazing world (which is really is, the castles are just so freaking cool), all because you don't want someone else to have a difficulty mode that works for their life, even when it's nothing to do with changing your difficulty level that you want and enjoy.

4 OPTIONAL simple changes that would make no difference to anyone's life who enjoys the difficulty of the game: don't lose runes on death, enemies 20% weaker, your attack/defense 20% stronger. some sort of conversation log (no markers or anything like that)

now it's a game a huge amount more people can enjoy if they want those settings.

tell me why we can't have this?

 

[Witcher1980]

this is where you're getting it wrong. no one ever said the game should be easier for you, in fact, the suggestion is, make it exactly as hard as you want it, but also allow the same option for others to have it as hard as they want it.

what's you've kind of said is, gay marriage shouldn't be allowed as i'm straight and i only want to marry someone of the opposite sex. gay marriage doesn't mean you have to marry same sex now

people talk about how fun the exploration is. someone like me, who wants an easy mode option can't experience this, they can't experience the amazing world (which is really is, the castles are just so freaking cool), all because you don't want someone else to have a difficulty mode that works for their life, even when it's nothing to do with changing your difficulty level that you want and enjoy.

4 OPTIONAL simple changes that would make no difference to anyone's life who enjoys the difficulty of the game: don't lose runes on death, enemies 20% weaker, your attack/defense 20% stronger. some sort of conversation log (no markers or anything like that)

now it's a game a huge amount more people can enjoy if they want those settings.

tell me why we can't have this?

Because this is not how the devs want it, this is the way they want it played.

I am happy they have not lost vision to pamper everyone. People know what they are getting when they buy a souls game, enough has been released.

 

[Amatsubu]

this is where you're getting it wrong. no one ever said the game should be easier for you, in fact, the suggestion is, make it exactly as hard as you want it, but also allow the same option for others to have it as hard as they want it.

what's you've kind of said is, gay marriage shouldn't be allowed as i'm straight and i only want to marry someone of the opposite sex. gay marriage doesn't mean you have to marry same sex now

tell me why we can't have this?

Sorry, but the gay marriage thing is a bad argument and it can easily be turned around into, say, you kinda liking gay marriage but not everything about it and would want to bend the rules so that you can enjoy it. So now you get to be gay but kinda not at the same time. It just doesn't work. It's a part of the experience, take it or not. Not everything has to be for everyone, that's all I'm saying.

Why can't we have it? Ask From, it's their rules, not mine. Apparently they still think it's how it should be and there's a reason for that. Plenty of games don't have difficulty levels and I just buy the whole package. If From adds difficulty levels then I won't cry about it, I just don't see it happening. Overcoming the game is a part of the appeal and I understand it. Wouldn't be the same without it.

 

[unwashed potato!]

Because this is not how the devs want it, this is the way they want it played.

doesn't make sense. they want it played, in a way that a huge amount of people can't play it.

i get they have their vision, and i would much rather games like elder scrolls take not of what elden ring does so well and copy some of those ideas, but adding a mode (lets call it super cry baby weakling mode to appease the hardcore boys that don't want the game appearing weak) that allows those with lives that don't have the time this game requires, to play this game, seems silly to a lot of people.

hasn't there already been changes to enemies on the game? why aren't people just saying "bUt ThAtS HoW ThE DeVs WaNtEd iT!!!"

 

[Deleted User 234324]

doesn't make sense. they want it played, in a way that a huge amount of people can't play it.

i get they have their vision, and i would much rather games like elder scrolls take not of what elden ring does so well and copy some of those ideas, but adding a mode (lets call it super cry baby weakling mode to appease the hardcore boys that don't want the game appearing weak) that allows those with lives that don't have the time this game requires, to play this game, seems silly to a lot of people.

hasn't there already been changes to enemies on the game? why aren't people just saying "bUt ThAtS HoW ThE DeVs WaNtEd iT!!!"

It sold 12 million copies, so I think the devs are more than happy with how the game turned out. It is after all the most successful new IP launch in a very very long time.

FYI Dark Souls 1 has sold 1.5 million copies to date, Elden Ring sold 12 million in 2 weeks!

 

[Amatsubu]

hasn't there already been changes to enemies on the game? why aren't people just saying "bUt ThAtS HoW ThE DeVs WaNtEd iT!!!"

Because there were hitbox issues and they also nerfed some players' options at that. I've said that already, difficulty in From games is very fair, when something needs fixing and seems unfair they do it, most of the time at least. You also don't have to be superhuman to play them, takes a lot less time than finishing a random long RPG. I have a life and didn't see anything out of ordinary in my playtimes, lol.

My combined time in Sekiro, Bloodborne and DS3 is around my W3 playtime and I finished Sekiro four times If not many people can play it, then how come the series is so damn popular and even winning awards like Sekiro?

 

[Witcher1980]

doesn't make sense. they want it played, in a way that a huge amount of people can't play it.

i get they have their vision, and i would much rather games like elder scrolls take not of what elden ring does so well and copy some of those ideas, but adding a mode (lets call it super cry baby weakling mode to appease the hardcore boys that don't want the game appearing weak) that allows those with lives that don't have the time this game requires, to play this game, seems silly to a lot of people.

hasn't there already been changes to enemies on the game? why aren't people just saying "bUt ThAtS HoW ThE DeVs WaNtEd iT!!!"

The games are not for everyone. From made Demon Souls, DS 1, Bloodborne, DS2, DS3, Sekiro and Elden Ring exactly the same difficulty wise. None of those have easy difficulty settings. If that means not everyone can play it seems From do not care as they are making games how THEY want them and it seems they are doing rather well out of it.

 

[iamtheoneneo]

Asking for an easy mode is part of the PR cycle with Souls games. Some people cry about the difficult, articles come out about 'why isn't there an easy mode', Miyazaki laughs, the game sells more than the last and everyone gets on with their lives until the next game.

This game is by far the easiest Souls game made, even Miyazaki has said that he expects more people to complete this game than any other Souls game due to the tools he has given players. Its not an accident that the mimic summon exists in a relatively easy to find location, can be half buffed with zero effort and can literally tank most bosses in the game.

 

[Witcher1980]

Asking for an easy mode is part of the PR cycle with Souls games. Some people cry about the difficult, articles come out about 'why isn't there an easy more', Miyazaki laughs, the game sells more than the last and everyone gets on with their lives until the next game.

This game is by far the easiest Souls game made, even Miyazaki has said that he expects more people to complete this game than any other Souls game due to the tools he has given players. Its not an accident that the mimic summon exists in a relatively easy to find location, can be half buffed with zero effort and can literally tank most bosses in the game.

Yeah even though the mimic was nerfed it still tanks. I used it for awhile but decided I was cheating the experience a bit so changed it. So having the mimic is the easy mode as far as it goes.

You can literally dart to places on the map and get mid game weapons right at the start as well.

 

[SonicSW20]

doesn't make sense. they want it played, in a way that a huge amount of people can't play it.

And yet its sold 3x over their publishers sales expectations, so clearly they're doing something right and don't need to cater for those who want an easy mode.

 

[SonicSW20]

You can literally dart to places on the map and get mid game weapons right at the start as well.

Once you have Torrent (could do it on foot, much easier with Torrent) you can run through Caelid picking up some high level golden runes (for early game) and kill an enemy that will drop ~100k runes if you use a golden fowl foot, which will get you 20-30 levels depending on what you start as, which makes most of Limgrave almost trivial. As you say there's a few weapons you can pick up on the way there too.

 

[Tombstone]

doesn't make sense. they want it played, in a way that a huge amount of people can't play it.

Yes, as I say its not the response that some people will want to hear but this is precisely how they wanted to design it. You only have to look at their other titles to see that. As I hinted at earlier in the thread, nothing is worse for the gaming industry in the long run than when devs cannot follow their own vision for a title.

The gay marriage analogy was an interesting one, but I put forward an alternative analogy. Its like saying that Pulp Fiction is great and all but I'd like a version of it without any swearing and a bit less violence because I dont need the swearing and violence to enjoy the storyline. To which, I'd imagine that Tarantino would tell the person to go do one because thats not how his vision of Pulp Fiction was intended to be.

 

[PC777]

Finally beat the game this afternoon after a couple of roadblocks late game including the final boss. Had two of most agonising defeats to it in all my years of Dark Souls games, once with mimic ashes got it to 3%, then once with a human summon it was at zero visible health on the bar before ranged chip damage got me.

Was my first time using a human summon all game, tried multiple times solo and with mimic ashes, but I couldn't get it near death again, around 30% or so.

Summoned about 5 random summons with good to great attempts till finally one with a Moon Greatsword melee build that worked really well with my Radhans+10, we took it out pretty well getting stuns on it. So after choosing the ending that takes longest to get, I'm now hanging around upgrading weapons a bit before going to NG+.

Fantastic game, it doesn't favour melee slow weapons overall, but you can definitely use them all the way through the final boss. The item needed for attempts for coop partners can be crafted and farmed easily and infinitely, so even if it's a difficult game on some bosses, you can practise with summons on bosses till you find one that clicks and you beat it. Will definitely play NG+, though will likely need help again on final boss unless I raise some ranged magic stats.

 

[strumpusplunket]

Beat the final boss this morning. It seemed one my str/int build was well geared for, and it went reaonsably smoothly after my first frantic attempt learning the most damaging attacks. He was a pain in the posterior to chase down, though.

I did save and reload after the boss to get all the endings and then it was only

Spoiler

Malenia

between me and the 100% achievement.

Although I think the game as a whole was easier than any of the Dark Souls games, and certainly easier than Sekiro, this boss was my biggest nemesis, the only boss I had really struggled with all game, and for me a fight that is right up there in difficulty with Fume Knight and Sword Saint Isshin. I don't think my build was well geared for this. I tried several different weapon, talisman and spell set ups, but it still felt down to the RNG how well the run would go and I never quite got over the line.

Respecced to a bleed build and got her on my third attempt. So much easier when I could outburst her health regen. The damage from a properly specced bleed build did suprise me, tbf. Not as convenient or flexible as my original set up, but it really seriously pumps out the damage!

Not sure what to do now. I was so utterly absorbed in this game I feel a bit empty. Really great gaming experience.

 

[unwashed potato!]

And yet its sold 3x over their publishers sales expectations, so clearly they're doing something right and don't need to cater for those who want an easy mode.

sure you're right, but you're also simplifying the data. it sold on release really really well. what are the figures like in 6 months? 2 years etc.

the game sold before people know what to expect. people would have bought it and didn't like it and you've included them in those figures.

 

[SonicSW20]

sure you're right, but you're also simplifying the data. it sold on release really really well. what are the figures like in 6 months? 2 years etc.

the game sold before people know what to expect. people would have bought it and didn't like it and you've included them in those figures.

There was extensive gameplay footage available from November during the network test that was representative of the game.

 

[Tombstone]

the game sold before people know what to expect. people would have bought it and didn't like it and you've included them in those figures.

Surely people will have expected it to be open world Dark Souls? I'd have thought most people who bought it were aware of the Dark Souls series of games and will have figured that this would be an open world version of Dark Souls. Which is pretty much what it is of course. Are there really people out there who bought a game by From Software and werent at all aware of their previous games? Mind you, I've always said that there are too many people out there who buy games without doing any research into what it is they are buying, I hope to hell thats not the same logic they use when buying a house or car

 

[unwashed potato!]

I see it as what someone said recently. 1.5 million dark souls sold. 12 million elden ring.

That's a big difference.

Why did 10 million more people (already) buy elden ring and not dark souls?

You guys know this isn't the same game but seem to think every one of the 12 million knew what to expect.

Either way, when quoting how many sales there are of elden ring, you are including those who bought the game and don't like it.

And when quoting sales, you're suggesting more sales = more success, and then say the game shouldn't have an option to allow more people to enjoy it that would result in more sales, an option that wouldn't change anything about the way the other 12 million play it.

It's an odd position to take.

 

[Amatsubu]

I see it as what someone said recently. 1.5 million dark souls sold. 12 million elden ring.

That's a big difference.

Why did 10 million more people (already) buy elden ring and not dark souls?

You guys know this isn't the same game but seem to think every one of the 12 million knew what to expect.

Either way, when quoting how many sales there are of elden ring, you are including those who bought the game and don't like it.

And when quoting sales, you're suggesting more sales = more success, and then say the game shouldn't have an option to allow more people to enjoy it that would result in more sales, an option that wouldn't change anything about the way the other 12 million play it.

It's an odd position to take.

No, they're just suggesting that the games are doing pretty damn well despite not having the options you want.

Also, you haven't considered that the series grew in popularity since DS1 (probably because of all those people who can't play it due to the difficulty) so it's pretty normal that more bought ER. Sekiro sold 2 million in ten days, now it's a lot more. We're talking about, according to many, the hardest game From's made, mind you.

And indeed, do people really buy From games not knowing what to expect considering Soulsborne has been around for a looong time?

The praise for ER is overwhelming, it's the usual vocal minority that wants nerfs and easy mode. Does it look like only the select few who don't have a life, as you say, can play it? Doesn't look that way at all to me. Why should a game change its identity because 5% or 10% of players can't handle it? I don't see racing sim devs changing everything because someone likes the game but it's too hard for them. What about roguelike? Should those games also drop the mechanics to cater for the masses? Have you considered that maybe the difficulty is a part of the package and easy mode would change the reception of the game? Maybe you're just not a part of the intended audience? Nothing wrong with that. It's already the easiest DS game due to the options Miyazaki included, how much easier does it need to get? To the point that it's no different from most AAA games?

People have told you time and again that it's a part of the experience, a big chunk of the series' identity and it just wouldn't be enjoyable if it was easier because all those secrets, builds, lore and atmosphere don't work if it's not challenging. The entire premise is that you need to be cautious and will pay for your mistakes. It doesn't work if there's nothing at stake. How do you make an oppressive, hostile world when you just get to keep your runes on death, keep track of everything and you're not afraid of bosses because they do puny damage? The more I think about it, the more I feel easy mode would just ruin the entire premise of the game.

If the games were intended to have adjustable difficulty, From would've included that a long time ago. It's not like elitists are writing letters to Miyazaki everyday saying "puhlease, don't let the damn casuls enjoy the gaem, hurrrrr!"

 

[unwashed potato!]

The praise for ER is overwhelming, it's the usual vocal minority that wants nerfs and easy mode. Does it look like only the select few who don't have a life, as you say, can play it

And why are you expecting that to change?

Surely you can work this out, next time they make another game, there will be a ton of people who really want to play the game, they want to explore, enjoy bosses, but they don't have the life that allows the time required to do it.

Read again. I never said you don't have a life if you play the game. That's just you jumping to conclusions to fight against an argument that doesn't need fighting against. What I said was, people have a life that doesn't let them play the game, all because from don't want to make an additional mode, a mode that even you've said, has been asked for from every single game they make. The crowd is there asking for this, and it seems to surprise you, that once again, while their wishes were ignored, there is a crowd of people that want a mode that fits their life and allows them to purchase this game too.

I don't get why people are so bent against a mode that wouldn't effect then. Does anyone here play mariokart. Imagine only 200cc mode. Every release you have a crowd saying that they want to play it but want a 50cc mode. And then you have weird people saying "nope you're not allowed as that's how the devs want it".

Maybe I'm just used to many other games where the devs take feedback on board and sometimes add modes that users are asking for, and a community that is open to an optional game mode being playable for other users life.

For years you've had games that have "story mode" and then another mode that reads "how the devs intended the game to be played". Literally no one was hurt from that. Only a better experience for all.

What about those players with special needs. I wonder how the quick reactions work for them. If they ask for a mode that caters to their needs, are you going to tell them, unfortunately the devs don't want them playing the game as they aren't the target audience? Every one is different and has a different life. Many like myself wish the devs would hear our very simple and fair requests, and yes for elden ring 2, or any next from game, we will be there, still asking for this, and there will be the usual crowd, again saying nah you're not allowed it, while they ride away moaning that we want to play the game too