Hazro - Any Update?

[myshkinbob]

My 24wi has gone back too. I'd started noticing the banding and a related artifact in more software and games, and other people here noticed it as well. It's a fine screen for videos and photographs, i just wish it had a strictly non-multimedia display mode.

I don't want to repeat myself but the banding wasn't due to miscalibration or a bad gamma curve, you just can't argue something crazy like it's only vertically uncalibrated, that dog won't hunt!

It's the genesis chip's image processing causing the issue, and i'm sure Hazro are aware of the cause by now. Any disturbance on a vertical gradient, from the cursor itself to painted blocks to adding a slight noise or grain, also disturbed the banding effect. Moreover, simply turning the gradient 90 degrees caused the screen to display it perfectly smooth.

Technically it isn't banding btw, it's an effect called gradation apparently. Ref.: http://lcdresource.com/mambo/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=46&Itemid=36

I contacted Hazro about it over a week ago, and they never did respond to me, so it didn't leave me much option but to return the screen while i still could. I understand they've probably been receiving a lot of mail since the new release, but it would've been nice to see a support response for someone who'd actually paid for their product.

Here's hoping they revise the firmware to include a mode with image processing reduced or disabled. I'm sure it has some benefit for video and photographs, so i wouldn't want it removed entirely. Slight moan here, but it might be nice to expose that level of configuration to the user. Presets are handy, but at £450, advanced control would be appreciated by the kind of advanced user that seeks an IPS display.

I'm not sure if i'll go for the LP2475w from HP, depending how tameable the wide-gamut is. For now i'm back using my dying CRT and making do.

If Hazro or any other manufacturers read the thread, here's what i'd like to see in a 24" TFT personally:

- H-IPS (with or without AT-W, the white glow isn't a big deal at most angles)
- User control over onboard image/colour processing
- Adjustable backlight
- Native sRGB gamut
- Engineered to be used at sensible brightness levels by default

 

[Jimbo7]

that looks very much like an exagerated marketing image to try and (inaccurately) demnstrate why different colour depths are better than others. See here for more info as well about gradients, gamma curves etc: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/monitors/display/lcd-testmethods_3.html#sect0

Indeed, taken to extremes colour depth can have a very dramatic effect on banding...

note, you can get very good gradients even on 6-bit+FRC displays, and you can get very bad gradients even on 8-bit displays (note Dell 2007WFP for instance in it's original release form)....

Yep, dithering and FRC (sort of dithering in the time domain - ish) can work wonders to increase the apparent colour depth

Jim

 

[Jimbo7]

Technically it isn't banding btw, it's an effect called gradation apparently. Ref.: http://lcdresource.com/mambo/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=46&Itemid=36

Interesting - I wasn't aware of that distinction... (Badass - maybe it would be more accurate to say that gradation has more to do with colour depth, rather than banding...?)

I'm not convinced it's gradation in the traditional sense, as the bands weren't solid colours as a result of high contrast, but actually exhibit a narrower gradient within each band, oddly inverse of the direction of the larger gradient itself. Again that shouts out processing artifact.

I agree. Someone's dropped/munged/inverted some Least Significant Bits somewhere along the line

I contacted Hazro about it over a week ago, and they never did respond to me, so it didn't leave me much option but to return the screen while i still could. I understand they've probably been receiving a lot of mail since the new release, but it would've been nice to see a support response for someone who'd actually paid for their product.

I contacted them via their webform, and didn't get a reply either. But then I found a phone number for them, which turned out to be a direct line in to the Sales Director He suggested I email the details in directly, and said he would let the warranty and support dept know to expect it. Sure enough I got a reply later that day (just after I requested a RMA number )

Here's hoping they revise the firmware to include a mode with image processing reduced or disabled. I'm sure it has some benefit for video and photographs, so i wouldn't want it removed entirely. Slight moan here, but it might be nice to expose that level of configuration to the user. Presets are handy, but at £450, advanced control would be appreciated by the kind of advanced user that seeks an IPS display.

Would be nice. Expect they're working against the clock just to get basic control software up and working reliably though (or not, as the case may be...). Hopefully in time...

I'm not sure if i'll go for the LP2475w from HP, depending how tameable the wide-gamut is. For now i'm back using my dying CRT and making do.

I guess that was you I saw asking about it on the dp forums?

I've also been looking at the HP. Sounds like the sRGB mode might be useful in that regard...?

Jim

 

[mrk]

What number did you have for them? I have one on myinvoice but don't think it's the right one :/

I don't think wide gamut is that bad for non colour managed apps really since Photoshop is fine, windows photo gallery is fine (Vista), Vista itself is fine and Firefox 3 is fine too as it has built in colour managed mode for wide gamut etc. Have yet to see a comparison for movies and games between wide and srgb but I don't mind here since almost every film has different colour casts any way depending on what kind of film it is, same for games whereas for web browsing and desktop work constant accurate colours are important.

 

[Jimbo7]

What number did you have for them? I have one on myinvoice but don't think it's the right one :/

Don't think their Sales Direction would want me to plaster it all over the forums

(However, seeing as OcUK's tech support line suggested I call them to discuss the issue, perhaps they could furnish customers with a suitable number to call...?)

Jim

 

[mrk]

Time to add more order to the 24” wagon of questions and answers

Hazro have gotten back to me about the banding/gradation and green snow issue. I will paste a quote from the message I got just now to save having to paraphrase everything 

...Hazro are currently investigating the banding
and gradient issue and are aiming to resolve this problem
promptly. Our engineers are also aware of a spark' issue
which is only present on a handful of monitors. We believe
both these issues are being caused by the scaling chip used...

I'll update in this thread end of the week as that's when I'm expecting a call about the solution - fingers crossed

 

[fulcrumer]

Bugger - glad I held off. OK whats next on the 24 inch monitor front?

 

[mrk]

Hazro HZ24Wi rev3 ?

Apart from the new HP 24" there is not any other 24" that has the IQ and performance of these 2 really (the noted issues set aside of course).

For me it all depends on how long the fix will take! Don't want to have to wait 2 more months without some kind of significant fix or quality control process put into the fix so we are guaranteed near 100% bug free operation of both panel and OSD as it's kind of expected to be just that at over £450.

 

[jgreen726]

MRK check your mail

 

[mrk]

Thanks

 

[Kendo Nagasaki]

I'd like to add that I have the banding & green snow that has been discussed previously. I was hoping that it could be calibrated out but unfortunately that doesn't appear to fix it (thanks mrk).

I've sent an e-mail to Hazro outlining the problems like others have - lets hope that a resolution can be found for this. I originally bought my Hazro back in April - 4 months later and still problems!!

 

[Mick-1965]

Great..... I ordered some calibration hardware a few days ago, when it was decided it was down to calibration.
Been having a play this afternoon, all to no avail though. What a waste... of time and cash.

MrK what settings were you using in Coloreyes

 

[jgreen726]

I'd like to add that I have the banding & green snow that has been discussed previously. I was hoping that it could be calibrated out but unfortunately that doesn't appear to fix it (thanks mrk).

I've sent an e-mail to Hazro outlining the problems like others have - lets hope that a resolution can be found for this. I originally bought my Hazro back in April - 4 months later and still problems!!

Its all you fault Kendo!!


You convinced me to buy one 4 months ago too

 

[Kendo Nagasaki]

I'd like to add though that for me anyway, in everyday use there are only occassions that these faults become apparent and it can be very minor depending on the type of gradient.

The banding is more obvious in vertical gradients as has been seen but i think that the 'green snow' is associated with the vertical banding. It may be a processing error associated with the banding that gives the effect of 'green snow/sparks'.

Taking these issues into account, it is still a very good screen!!

 

[jgreen726]

 

[mrk]

Great..... I ordered some calibration hardware a few days ago, when it was decided it was down to calibration.
Been having a play this afternoon, all to no avail though. What a waste... of time and cash.

MrK what settings were you using in Coloreyes

The calibration device is not a waste of money as you'll be able to get accurate colours on all your monitors in the house and keep on getting accurate colours all the time

 

[brookhaven]

He ho - I was about to put an order in today for the HZ26Wi and hope I get a good one, but now I'm not so sure, plus the special offer on the black model seems to have disappeared today. Mmm - back to the drawing board I think.

 

[blackapache]

God! Is there ever gonna be a VERY good nice looking screen released without gloss coating! This is getting ridiculous I'm using my brand new pc with a 15" lcd that must be about 7yrs old!

 

[mrk]

Tried BlueEyePro and I get the same results as Eye-One Match3 except obviously the reporting functions are better.

ColorEyes Display pro though gets better shadow details out whilst getting the same calibration results, average dE remained 0.3 after profiling. DDC/CI does not work in Vista too because both BlueEye and ColorEyes report that DDC cannot be used because the screen is not DDC compatible!

 

[Mick-1965]

Tried BlueEyePro and I get the same results as Eye-One Match3 except obviously the reporting functions are better.

ColorEyes Display pro though gets better shadow details out whilst getting the same calibration results, average dE remained 0.3 after profiling. DDC/CI does not work in Vista too because both BlueEye and ColorEyes report that DDC cannot be used because the screen is not DDC compatible!

Its not just Vista, CEDP reports the same in XP pro too regarding DDC/ci. It says in the Hazro specs that its DDC/ci compatible. Its also quoted at the end of the PDF of CEDP that if the manurfacture doesnt complete adhere to the DDC specs then it wont be compatible or words to that effect.

What setup are you using in CEDP ? I cannot seem to get any decent results with it.