Then I guess Vettel wasn't much of a champion, having won all his titles during the extreme aero era? And Schumacher, not much of a champion because he always had a number two who's job was to help Schumacher to a win, but never win himself? The fact is that whatever we think of them, those drivers won those championships when others could not, even when the rules are the same for everyone.
Poll: Japanese Grand Prix 2018, Suzuka - Race 17/21
- Thread starter Shimmy
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Then I guess Vettel wasn't much of a champion, having won all his titles during the extreme aero era? And Schumacher, not much of a champion because he always had a number two who's job was to help Schumacher to a win, but never win himself? The fact is that whatever we think of them, those drivers won those championships when others could not, even when the rules are the same for everyone.
Deleted member 651465
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Deleted member 651465
I've approved this just so everyone can taste the salt
Of course you're going to say that his championships are diminished. Every driver on the grid has the same chance of winning the title as they are race with the same engine specification. Some teams have built a good engine (Merc, Ferrari), some haven't (Renault, Honda). Let's just make it a rule that unless you win in a V12 then it doesn't count, shall we? give over.
Hamilton has beaten every driver on the grid fair and square and the record books show him as a 4x WDC. Same as Vettel. Get over it.
Sitting back to 'maximise points' would be fine if this wasn't race 17 with a 50 point deficit, at this point for Seb it's all or nothing. If Lewis has clean air he was just going to drive into the distance and never be seen again. Don't get me wrong it was a long shot and it didn't pay off but at the end of the day sitting back would have resulted in the same result, championship over. No one has lost a 50 point lead at this point anyway so Seb has't lost anything from today's incident. The chances of him winning were next to nothing and needed Merc to throw it away by having 2 DNF's and winning every race from here on. It was never going to happen....
Events leading up to this race though are a completely different story, I completely agree.
Events leading up to this race though are a completely different story, I completely agree.
Caporegime
Honestly, Hamilton's wins in 2014 and 2015 were some of the least impressive championships I've seen. A huge car advantage meant it was really a matter of beating his team mate. Last year Ferrari were a bit closer, and this year Ferrari had the best car for much of the season. His win in 2008 was taken against stronger opposition. It strikes me as shallow to act as if all seasons reflect equally on the drivers.
It's not just about maximising points, if Ferrari were smart they would have played it safe in qualifying and pressured Hamilton during the race to try and force a mistake or reliability issue. They aren't going to beat him at this point their only hope is making it as difficult as possible for him and praying for a bit of luck. I think they've totally blown it after this weekend though Hamilton could probably take 1-2 races off and still win it now.
Even Vettel's pass on Verstappen screamed desperation as he could have probably blown past him on the start straight if he had waited a few more corners. Before this weekend they just needed to accept that the championship is lost, drive to the capability of their car and hope for some luck in the last few races. They've not only made this weekend extremely easy for Hamilton and Mercedes but both Vettel and Ferrari have looked like amateurs in the process (and they've completely thrown away whatever slim chances they did have).
Even Vettel's pass on Verstappen screamed desperation as he could have probably blown past him on the start straight if he had waited a few more corners. Before this weekend they just needed to accept that the championship is lost, drive to the capability of their car and hope for some luck in the last few races. They've not only made this weekend extremely easy for Hamilton and Mercedes but both Vettel and Ferrari have looked like amateurs in the process (and they've completely thrown away whatever slim chances they did have).
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Deleted member 651465
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Deleted member 651465
I'd agree with 2014 and 2015 but then you race with what you have, right?
Does Schumacher's title in 2002 get diminished because he destroyed everyone that year? Of course not. You can only beat what is in-front of you and you can't blame any driver for taking advantage when they've got the car under them.
Caporegime
Sure. But that doesn't mean I'm going to count a win with vastly superior machinery as less significant than a win in a year with real challengers.
I'd say the years where Schumacher had a huge advantage as less significant than the ones where he didn't. Of course, over his career he showed what an exceptionally brilliant driver he was but had he only one that one year? It wouldn't count as much of a thing. I mean it's still a World Championship and I don't think there's ever been a World Championship won by a driver who wasn't very good, but not all of them are exceptional. Drivers like Schumi and Hamilton have that bit extra than everyone else.
No one says ‘World Champion’ with an * beside the ones he had the best car do they? F1 goes through cycles of a car or engine or both dominating. No one gets annoyed when Prost and Senna won every race except one do they?
Man of Honour
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Oh troll off. Hamilton has won championships in both eras. He is therefore more adaptable and therefore better than all of his current competitors. Those few who cling to being 'Hamilton haters' are sounding more and more pathetic with every one of his achievements and records broken.
Such a messy move by Vettel. Rewatched the replay. Not sure where he expects other cars to go?
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Caporegime
Lol so much of it I may end up with extremely high blood pressure.
I’m absolutely loving the Hamilton hate in here, just shows that he’s doing something right by beating Vettel and others fair and square.
I also see a lot of hate for him due to his skin colour on other social media sites. It’s quite pathetic that people concentrate more on his skin colour than his actual skill.
Soldato
I'll give this race a 7, just to annoy Stiggy.
Soldato
Entirely predictable race. I enjoyed it more just because of the Ferrari trolls on here.
Sebastian will be very disappointed with his performance today. Desperate with poor decision making. Again.
The Italian press will be baying for blood after this poor run. Ferrari’s poor engineering performance forced a world class driver to leave the team, and now they’ve developed the fastest car their driver let them down. I’d love to have seen Alonso in this year’s Ferrari.
Sebastian will be very disappointed with his performance today. Desperate with poor decision making. Again.
The Italian press will be baying for blood after this poor run. Ferrari’s poor engineering performance forced a world class driver to leave the team, and now they’ve developed the fastest car their driver let them down. I’d love to have seen Alonso in this year’s Ferrari.
Man of Honour
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6 for me. Decent race. Could have been better.
Deleted member 651465
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Deleted member 651465
If Vettel keeps driving like this, he will be sacked and Alonso will be back.
I’ve seen stranger.
I’ve seen stranger.
Soldato
Alonso and Leclerc would be a strong lineup!
Soldato
I did but I still watched every race I could
Man of Honour
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Wouldn’t surprise me either. Vettel has thrown it away two years in a row now while getting paid a fortune. Madness.
8 for me.
I was entertained all the way through and lots of stuff going on.
Max was on Kimi was wrong, naughty in my book. Coming across the track like that is not on.
With Vettel, LOL... why would you try THAT move on Max. It was just not on!! I agree that he needed to the overtake, but it was just not on at that corner against Max from that far....
Vettel is proving again to that be can't handle the pressure. Without that collision induced spin, he was locked into a third place at least, and would be closer in the championship at the end of the race. All he can do at the moment is maximise the car and stay in contention. He failed AGAIN today to do that.
Really enjoyed the day
Can't wait for Leclerc to go to Ferrari and start to show up Vettel Oh, that's if Vettel survives the season.. Ferrari are Italian after all.. If this poor form continues he could be out of f1 altogether!
I was entertained all the way through and lots of stuff going on.
Max was on Kimi was wrong, naughty in my book. Coming across the track like that is not on.
With Vettel, LOL... why would you try THAT move on Max. It was just not on!! I agree that he needed to the overtake, but it was just not on at that corner against Max from that far....
Vettel is proving again to that be can't handle the pressure. Without that collision induced spin, he was locked into a third place at least, and would be closer in the championship at the end of the race. All he can do at the moment is maximise the car and stay in contention. He failed AGAIN today to do that.
Really enjoyed the day
Can't wait for Leclerc to go to Ferrari and start to show up Vettel Oh, that's if Vettel survives the season.. Ferrari are Italian after all.. If this poor form continues he could be out of f1 altogether!