#MeToo - is it just different for men and women?

Man of Honour
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I thought Serena overstated her case and took away all the limeight from the Osaka. I didn't actually realise though the chair umpire took a whole game of her as punishment for coaching which led to her having a meltdown.

He didn't. He took a whole game off her for repeated code violations, including serious ones.

Not that it made any difference because she was losing badly anyway.

Rules are rules but they should be consistently enforced so I can understand why Serena felt victimised but I don't see this as sexist just poor umpiring.

Can you provide any evidence to support that position? Many people are claiming inconsistency (and all the others are claiming it's sexism or sexism and racism), but none of them have shown any evidence.

What is true is that coaching isn't always penalised...probably because the umpire doesn't always see it. Umpires generally focus on the players, not the coaches. But it is a breach of the rules and the minor penalty he imposed (nothing more than a warning) is also within the rules.

I think the umpire has a better case for libel than Williams does for sexism.
 
Man of Honour
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Soldato
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What i find amusing more than anything else is that Serena tried to play both the sexist and racist cards when her opponent was also a woman with skin just are dark as hers.

Incredible stupidity, i hope this damages her career as she's always came across as entitled and arrogant and i cannot stand people like that
 
Caporegime
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Need to become increasingly sceptical about news sources too, comment I made in tesla thread



Guardian has similar reputation, and just scanning their asia argento article
https://www.theguardian.com/film/20...aying-off-actor-metoo-weinstein-jimmy-bennett

they just repeat other articles - so click-bait - no independant verification ?
an abdication of responsibility for content.



...maybe Serena (or is that her sister) should just retire to her Tempur mattress


No when a person gives an exclusive interview to a paper then that article is the source for others.

They are not repeating or click baiting they are citing thier sources so you can go and check.

They cannot go to the person and ask them to repeat the quote so instead its given on the reputation of the paper that reported it (times is pretty trust worthy there) and the fact that the person quoted isnt currently sueing the original paper for libel or releasing contradicting statements
 
Soldato
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What i find amusing more than anything else is that Serena tried to play both the sexist and racist cards when her opponent was also a woman with skin just are dark as hers.

Incredible stupidity, i hope this damages her career as she's always came across as entitled and arrogant and i cannot stand people like that

She wasn't making the accusations in reference to her opponent.
 
Caporegime
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So the judge was racist and sexist and so ruled unfairly against her in favour of another black woman?

Or was she playing Tim in a dress?

You do realise that someone can be sexist simply because he treats all the female players different to the male players, or racist. IE he could give out penalties to Williams against Osaka but but to Federer playing Djokovic for behaviour the same way. IE different treatment of women.

The idea that treating her differently only works if her opponent isn't a female or black is... just absurd.

He wasn't sexist or racist or anything else. So many people keep trying to bring it down to she got penalised for calling him thief while other players have called him worse without penalty.

In many sports, tennis included, emotion gets the better of players and they speak out. if someone says what an idiot making that call, and literally that's it, or then as often happens sitting in their seat fairly calmly discuss it with the ump after the game that very very rarely gets penalised.

When you stand up and yell for everyone to hear easily and you do this not once but several times after several games and you basically through a tantrum for everyone to see such that your behaviour becomes distracting for the opponent and abusive in nature then you get penalised. Djokovic, Nadal, many players have been penalised when they prolong such situations and they are almost never penalised if it's one sentence and not repeated.

Serena complained about the initial warning, then she slammed her raquet, got a point penalty which is given like 95% of the time and has been for years, she complained a lot more and for a few games iirc she complained between them, then she went on a full on prolonged tired. She said he'd never work near here again, threatening his job/career, she called him a liar and thief multiple times and she repeatedly demanded an apology.

The idea it was a brief "you're a thief" then she got on with the game is absurd. When your behaviour is that bad and when you're literally distracting and upsetting your opponent then you fully deserve a penalty. There just isn't any question. It also very much seems that there is a PR push by her people to frame it as "she only called him a thief but others called him worse", I've seen that on imgur, on reddit, twitter, everywhere and it entirely reframes what she supposedly did wrong to get penalised.
 
Soldato
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Have a think about it. She wasn't accusing him of treating her opponent in preference, she was accusing him of treating her, as an individual, with prejudice.

So why wasn't he treating them equally badly then? It doesn't make sense. The only prejudice i see him treating her with was because she was being an *******
 
Soldato
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So why wasn't he treating them equally badly then? It doesn't make sense. The only prejudice i see him treating her with was because she was being an *******

He is an umpire well known for being quite officious with both men and women. Something I personally approve of given the often bad behaviour of some of the players.

Ramos also has a reputation as a stickler for the rules. At last year’s French Open, he drew criticism from the eventual champion, Rafael Nafal after they argued during a fourth-round match. Ramos gave Nadal two warnings for slow play, and the Spaniard felt he was being unfairly treated.

So, as usual, little to no evidence is provided of racism or sexism other then the assertion that it must be there because a woman / person of colour was on the receiving end of a negative judgement for their behaviour.
 
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Soldato
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Does the absence of any legal response by Serena speak volumes ? - have there been any such cases

[her sponsors have not commented
In addition to Nike and Pepsi, Williams’ roster of sponsors includes Wilson Sporting Goods Co, JP Morgan Chase & Co, Apple Inc’s headphone company Beats Electronics, International Business Machines Corp and German automaker BMW’s Mini brand, according to IEG. ]
 
Soldato
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Does the absence of any legal response by Serena speak volumes ? - have there been any such cases

[her sponsors have not commented
In addition to Nike and Pepsi, Williams’ roster of sponsors includes Wilson Sporting Goods Co, JP Morgan Chase & Co, Apple Inc’s headphone company Beats Electronics, International Business Machines Corp and German automaker BMW’s Mini brand, according to IEG. ]


Maybe Nike would like to double down after the Kappernick add and feature Serena in a new campaign.....?


. ... Believe in something..... even if this does mean, throwing public tantrums, abusing umpires and physically threatening officials.....

Because you not sacrificing Jack **** when you are only fined a few thousand from your massive winnings.... And you get to play the victim after your appaling behaviour gets called out
 
Caporegime
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Have a think about it. She wasn't accusing him of treating her opponent in preference, she was accusing him of treating her, as an individual, with prejudice.


Which if heis treating her as an individual that way but not her opponent an equal racial minority then he's not being racist hes doing his job.

If he was a racist he's have been calling them both or anything he could
 
Soldato
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Which if heis treating her as an individual that way but not her opponent an equal racial minority then he's not being racist hes doing his job.

If he was a racist he's have been calling them both or anything he could

One of the useful elements of this sorry saga when arguing against the whole racist narrative is that Serena's opponent was another visible 'person of colour' because if it had been a white woman you can bet we would have been told that the umpire was being racist to prefer her opponent based on nothing else other then the opponent being white.

As it stands we are left with the bizarre spectacle of people claiming sexism and racism on the part of an unpire renowned for being somewhat officious with a range of players and who has previously sanctioned players like Nadal and Andy Murray!
 
Soldato
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I dont think he was sexist but i dont like his umpiring. I have always thought (more so recent years) that Carlos Ramos is too robotic in his umpiring and often sticking directly to the rule book takes something away from the match. For example he has a habit of giving slow play warnings at crucial points of matches when the server is under stress/already wound up or has lost consecutive points, even when it doesn't seem to be effecting momentum of the game or bothering the opposing player.

I also think he gets a bit of a power trip when it comes to reprimanding top players. Obviously umpires are there to enforce the rules to their discretion but there are good and bad ways of doing it. Even the ITF who backed Ramos said that he should have been a bit more lenient, it isn't hard to see that the match was ruined by those two butting heads and despite Serena being in the wrong, a better umpire would have let her cool off somewhat and not so harshly give penalty after penalty knowing full well that it would really wind her up and cost her a game.

Yes it is Serena's fault but it ruined one of the biggest matches of the year and imo Carlos probably felt more of a winner after the match than Osaka did...

I can't picture the match ending the same way had it been another umpire.
 
Caporegime
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ref Serena:

https://www.independent.ie/sport/ot...he-us-open-is-special-treatment-37305939.html

However, afterwards in the press conference she was asked if she had any regrets given her claims she wasn't coached from the stands had been proven wrong.

The 36-year-old was caught cold and in quite a panic reached for any shield. "I'm out here fighting for... women's rights," she blurted out. The see-through nature of this claim was obvious when she added, "and all kinds of stuff". Now she cannot let it go.

In her world, there is an endless list of sad and sorry issues to use as a focal point for a campaign. Some have pertained directly to her such as the treatment at the French Open over attire, meanwhile already this US Open there was the warning Alize Cornet received for changing a top. But neither would have helped Williams or justified her abuse. And yet at that same press conference there was an embarrassing round of applause for her desperation, and what followed was all jumping on her pseudo-cause around women's rights.

Toni Van Pelt, president of America's National Organisation for Women penned a letter suggesting umpire Carlos Ramos be sacked, a guy who did his job perfectly and for it got $633. Billie Jean King of course wasted no time in rowing in. Former Destiny's Child member Kelly Rowland added her voice for some reason. Anna Kesell in The Guardian noted that, "Significantly, the attacks on Williams have been personal, her career-long professionalism and suitability as a role model called into question".

Christine Brennan of USA Today asked if Williams was punished for breaking rules due to being a woman, over race, once wearing a cat suit, being a mother, or not being dainty? And then came the aforementioned Steve Simon putting player above the rules, undermining his organisation again.

Sometimes you close your eyes and imagine hands big enough to grab this globe and to shake it.

This is the mother of all smokescreens that has shown up a massive cowardice and an agenda-over-facts bias in the media, particularly in the United States. Just as Donald Trump knows he could kill someone and still get the votes, Williams knows she can spoof and still get support.
 
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