*** Nintendo Switch ***

[drunkenmaster]

This is true if it is bog standard 2008 skyrim. But I'd very much doubt it'll be. I'd be pretty confident it'll be 2016 special edition with the bells and whistles added. The 'feat' was more being able to play full console games on the go. Be it graphically impaired or not.

Bandwidth dude, bandwidth. You can't have big bandwidth in a mobile device without also wearing a backpack sized battery. Bandwidth requires power, mobile devices have small bandwidth as a necessity to function. Small bandwidth requires small textures and low memory usage.

You can't afford the bandwidth or storage required for higher quality textures on a mobile device.

K1 had 17GB/s of bandwidth using a 64bit bus, X1 got a huge bump using 1600Mhz lpddr4 over the 930Mhz lpddr3 the K1 used, which got it all the way to 25GB/s. A 1050 has 112GB/s, lower end gaming now has 100GB/s + of bandwidth, RX460 has the same. They are the low end chips for 14nm and that is GPU bandwidth alone. The 25GB/s the X1 had is shared by CPU, GPU.

There is neither going to be the bandwidth required nor the storage on the device to have game sizes or texture quality that is anywhere near PC level. Zero chance the Switch version of Skyrim will use all the bells and whistles.

At this point Switch should probably be coming with LPDDR4x, which uses a little less power so clocks can go up slightly, for a 64bit bus it's improving to around 35GB/s, there is really no other option to go higher. 128bit bus is a strictly non mobile application, it uses too much power for it to be viable in mobile.

 

[2StepSteve]

I hope this will be the dawn of console level portable hd gaming

I hope so too. There needs to be some fresh injection in to the portable gaming market.

Sony had the ideal opportunity with the Vita, the device is fantastic and has all round great hardware. But, they are just not committed to it what so ever, at least not in the western part of the world. But that's another story .

 

[drunkenmaster]

It's a feat. You know why? Because finally Nintendo will be releasing a new portable console which is not based on the DS. Finally, we can begin to kiss goodbye to the potato resolution and along with it the terrible graphics which should have been put to bed years ago in favour of a completely new generation of console.

The DS/3DS have been extremely successful devices, but they have have been milked to death and looked old before there time a long while back. The N3DS, also offers minimal gains in the graphics department, as we are still tied to the legacy of the DS, with the low spec and extremely low resolution display gaming.

The Switch won't be setting the world a light with graphics compared to the PS4 and Xbox, but it will offer a very unique, fresh and improved handled gaming experience. Personally, I am more interested in using it as a mobile gaming device rather than hooking up to my TV.

I hope this will be the dawn of console level portable hd gaming

Jesus, not one to big up Nvidia, but they've had the Shield around for a while now offering dramatically higher resolution and performance than A 3DS.... Switch is just Shield Mk 2, controller, screen, non potato resolution, the odd port of an old game to work natively on it.

Everything is console level, it just depends on the console. Switch will offer nothing like current gen console gaming, it will offer below last gen quality gaming. It's going to come out in the Pro/Scorpio era, not the PS4/XO era.

We will never see mobile with the same graphics and games as current gen consoles because what is possible in mobile will always been less than anything plugged in. Where a console can have a 2TB hard drive, a handheld will have maybe 128gb or something, where a console will have 160GB/s of bandwidth, a mobile device will have 30GB/s, console will have 6000Gflop of power while a mobile device will have 700Gflop.

In 8 years a mobile device will have 100Gb/s of bandwidth, 2TB storage space and 6Tflop performance, a current gen console will have 750GB/s bandwidth, 8TB hdd and a 2TB ssd and 35TFlop performance. That is just how it works, what works on battery in a small device with less cooling is simply a magnitude less than what can be achieved in a large device with no battery and vastly improved cooling.

 

[kinger8938]

rumour that a version of pokemon sun and moon titled pokemon stars is coming to switch in 2017. That would move units like mad i bet

 

[2StepSteve]

Jesus, not one to big up Nvidia, but they've had the Shield around for a while now offering dramatically higher resolution and performance than A 3DS.... Switch is just Shield Mk 2, controller, screen, non potato resolution, the odd port of an old game to work natively on it.

Isn't the Shield suffering from a drought of decent new games though? It's a similar story to the Vita, good hardware but just not enough developer traction. This is where Nintendo (hopefully) will be able to do better, the success of the Switch depends on it.

 

[TNA]

Jesus, not one to big up Nvidia, but they've had the Shield around for a while now offering dramatically higher resolution and performance than A 3DS.... Switch is just Shield Mk 2, controller, screen, non potato resolution, the odd port of an old game to work natively on it.

Everything is console level, it just depends on the console. Switch will offer nothing like current gen console gaming, it will offer below last gen quality gaming. It's going to come out in the Pro/Scorpio era, not the PS4/XO era.

We will never see mobile with the same graphics and games as current gen consoles because what is possible in mobile will always been less than anything plugged in. Where a console can have a 2TB hard drive, a handheld will have maybe 128gb or something, where a console will have 160GB/s of bandwidth, a mobile device will have 30GB/s, console will have 6000Gflop of power while a mobile device will have 700Gflop.

In 8 years a mobile device will have 100Gb/s of bandwidth, 2TB storage space and 6Tflop performance, a current gen console will have 750GB/s bandwidth, 8TB hdd and a 2TB ssd and 35TFlop performance. That is just how it works, what works on battery in a small device with less cooling is simply a magnitude less than what can be achieved in a large device with no battery and vastly improved cooling.

As long as it is more powerful than the Wii U which I am optimistic it will be, I am happy. Simply put, it will be the only place to play many exclusive games. It will complement my PC very well indeed.

Sure I would have preferred if they went with a non-portable proper console that was more powerful, but no big deal, I have my PC for games with top end graphics. Been gaming happily 4K for two years now

 

[drunkenmaster]

Isn't the Shield suffering from a drought of decent new games though? It's a similar story to the Vita, good hardware but just not enough developer traction. This is where Nintendo (hopefully) will be able to do better, the success of the Switch depends on it.

Except Nintendo had the same issue with Wii U, largely because it was vastly underpowered and had so many limitations compared to the other consoles that devs simply didn't care for it.

Shield had nothing in terms of real PC gaming. it had streaming but native titles nothing AAA like simply because like Switch, and WIi U, it was so far behind mainstream console gaming performance it means a huge amount of work to make a game that works for it.

Ignoring graphics settings the game has to work at the given cpu performance available, the consoles may not have the strongest CPU but there are 8 cores, 6-7 usually available for games, easy to code for, good bandwidth to utilise them all as well as the GPU. The mobile cpus throttle a lot while not plugged in, performance per clock and max clocks aren't a realistic idea of the actual target for performance mobile devices have.

Devs aren't going to make a console aimed at Scorpio and get it working on Switch without a LOT of work, a huge amount of optimisation, a huge amount of work to get it working on an ARM cpu and a load of design/graphical work getting textures and lighting/other things to use much much less bandwidth.

Regardless, I was just using the Shield as an example of something both guys I quoted as saying was unavailable, a mobile device with vastly more power and vastly better graphics. Things have been around for ages, people still don't like them.

This is all before mentioning that handheld is dying, badly. DS peaked at around 30mil sales a year, 3DS peaked at 15mil. DS was at 20mil the year before 3ds launched, 3ds just hit 3.5mil after 3 quarters this year and before the Switch was announced. That is basically 1/5th the sales only 4 years later. We all have smartphones capable of gaming and so much more, paying for and carrying around a larger heavier less capable second device is just not a sensible choice for most people. Handheld sales are dying extremely fast. When Switch sales aren't amazing, watch 3rd party support dry up near instantly as it did with the Wii U.

 

[2StepSteve]

Except Nintendo had the same issue with Wii U, largely because it was vastly underpowered and had so many limitations compared to the other consoles that devs simply didn't care for it.

Shield had nothing in terms of real PC gaming. it had streaming but native titles nothing AAA like simply because like Switch, and WIi U, it was so far behind mainstream console gaming performance it means a huge amount of work to make a game that works for it.

Ignoring graphics settings the game has to work at the given cpu performance available, the consoles may not have the strongest CPU but there are 8 cores, 6-7 usually available for games, easy to code for, good bandwidth to utilise them all as well as the GPU. The mobile cpus throttle a lot while not plugged in, performance per clock and max clocks aren't a realistic idea of the actual target for performance mobile devices have.

Devs aren't going to make a console aimed at Scorpio and get it working on Switch without a LOT of work, a huge amount of optimisation, a huge amount of work to get it working on an ARM cpu and a load of design/graphical work getting textures and lighting/other things to use much much less bandwidth.

Regardless, I was just using the Shield as an example of something both guys I quoted as saying was unavailable, a mobile device with vastly more power and vastly better graphics. Things have been around for ages, people still don't like them.

This is all before mentioning that handheld is dying, badly. DS peaked at around 30mil sales a year, 3DS peaked at 15mil. DS was at 20mil the year before 3ds launched, 3ds just hit 3.5mil after 3 quarters this year and before the Switch was announced. That is basically 1/5th the sales only 4 years later. We all have smartphones capable of gaming and so much more, paying for and carrying around a larger heavier less capable second device is just not a sensible choice for most people. Handheld sales are dying extremely fast. When Switch sales aren't amazing, watch 3rd party support dry up near instantly as it did with the Wii U.

The Wii-U has been a train wreck, definitely agree.

I think what the potential game developers need to have in mind are the 3DS user base, as it is still massive and there are huge profits to be made which they have the potential to tap in to. Not everyone is satisfied with Candy Crush or Boom Beach, I'd like to hope that mobile gaming still has a chance to be more than phone gaming.

The point regarding porting new titles from the Xbox or PS4 is valid, it's unlikely to happen. This doesn't necessarily mean the Switch will be a failure though. If the Switch gets the games, it'll be a console to own along side your xbox and PS4, with exclusive and unique titles, sprinkled with some Nintendo magic. Which can work, look at the 3DS. It has vastly its own catalogue of games.

As they say, it's not about the specs (as long as it's no potato resolution, which we know it won't be) it's the number of quality games will be the deciding factor on whether the Switch succeeds or not. I hope Nintendo understand the importance of this.

 

[Plainsong]

Just going to wait and see what they come up with. Hope it's great.

 

[Kobi]

I wouldn't really say it's fair to even bring the Pro/Scorpio into the switch talk. Pro/Scorpio are aimed at 4k gaming, even Microsoft said not to bother buying one unless you have a 4k TV.

I'm not gonna lie, having this discussion with Drunkenmaster is like being back at school and I'm speaking to a teacher that knows too much, while I know too little. So I'm gonna go ahead and say stuff and it might not make any sense haha

It's pretty much a given the Switch is using Nvidias Pascal 'Parker' architecture. I was pretty sure nvidia actually said this, but I couldn't find the source. Now we know Parker sits around 80% of the performance of an XB1, we know it's a custom one, but couldn't we just look at the specs of Parker and say it'll have a custom version of that which could be faster?

 

[jonneymendoza]

I missed the part about playing it on a big screen while docked? Really? So you've got a version at home already on your pc or console, which you can already hook up to your tv. Except you can play it with high quality textures and high settings. The Switch will be upscaling low quality textures with dismal bandwidth and limited storage and memory capacity onto a big screen to provide worse frame rate and way worse quality. Playing a 6 year old game in much worse quality than you can already play that game at home, I didn't forget about it, it's just worthless.

Full blown games you can play anywhere? Or full blow 6 year old games that worked on 9 year old technology that you can play in worse quality, worse resolution and worse frame rate but on the go... wooo.

Skyrim was technologically way behind the times when it launched, DX9, dodgy 60fps cap, dodgy physics. It looked good but not great, it was still a great game but it wasn't pushing any boundaries in 2011.


As for assumptions, power and the reality of mobile devices limit what the X2 chip can be. There is no chip in the dock, the only thing you might get is increased cooling and less throttling, but the game still has to work while mobile, it still has to fit on the device and it still has to work within the bandwidth limits of a mobile chip. It's not an assumption but a fact to say it won't have the highest texture settings, it won't have great resolution, the dock isn't going to improve performance by more than 20% and it doesn't really matter because off battery while mobile is how the game will be targeted. If it's not playable while mobile then it's worthless, so if they aim for 30fps mobile at 720p and reduce settings to achieve that, you'll get 40fps maybe while docked... but nothing else will change.

low quality settings at 720p then upscaled for your 1080p tv, when you can just take any old pc using ultra settings and play in 4k with good frame rate... wooo.


Handhelds always had full blown games, what they didn't have was full blown current games that run on modern hardware, and the Switch still won't, Skyrim is an example of getting a very old and out of date game running on a handheld, which frankly is nothing particularly new or exciting.

Put GTA 6 on Switch, Scorpio, PS4 pro and PC at the same time and you're talking, but if Scorpio, Pro and PC get GTA 6 and Switch gets GTA 4..... it's not the same.

Nailed it. Well said

 

[TNA]

Nailed it. Well said

He has valid points. But the main thing here is, where else can you get all those Nintendo exclusive games? Nowhere!

This alone means they have made a sale right here. I would much rather have the Nintendo Switch than PS4 Pro or Scorpio. My PC will always have better graphics and FPS than those consoles and there are like hardly any exclusives on there vs PC. In my experience there are like 1-2 exclusives which I just borrow a friends system and play

Oh and the Switch with the bundled game will cost less than my GTX 1070 did. lol.

 

[malachi]

We don't need another Fifa or Call of Duty machine. We have two of those already. I like what Nintendo are doing.

 

[jonneymendoza]

He has valid points. But the main thing here is, where else can you get all those Nintendo exclusive games? Nowhere!

This alone means they have made a sale right here. I would much rather have the Nintendo Switch than PS4 Pro or Scorpio. My PC will always have better graphics and FPS than those consoles and there are like hardly any exclusives on there vs PC. In my experience there are like 1-2 exclusives which I just borrow a friends system and play

Oh and the Switch with the bundled game will cost less than my GTX 1070 did. lol.

You can't have anything in life. Fair play if most of the games you like are Nintendo but what if it's the reverse and you love call of duty battlefield fifa uncharted games?

You got to weigh out the cons and pros. I would never buy a machine just to play one or two games..

 

[TNA]

You can't have anything in life. Fair play if most of the games you like are Nintendo but what if it's the reverse and you love call of duty battlefield fifa uncharted games?

You got to weigh out the cons and pros. I would never buy a machine just to play one or two games..

I assume you mean can't have "everything" in life. I never said most of the games I like are on Nintendo. Most games I like are by far on PC; the remaining however are on Nintendo, where else would they be considering most games available on the other two consoles are available with better graphics and fps on PC?

The only game that comes to my mind which I had to borrow my mate's PS4 for was The Last of Us Remastered. I would have borrowed it for Final Fantasy XV also, but there is a very good chance that will be coming to PC where I will play it in proper 4K.

Edit: Oh and "call of duty battlefield fifa" all on PC

 

[megalomanic]

Skyrim will be popular until the next Elder Scrolls game comes around. It's one of those games people love to replay and it has a dedicated fan following.

Not everyone has played Skyrim either, and being on a Nintendo console and portable will give the game some more exposure.

Skyrim is still 30fps on consoles - yes even the recently released Special Edition, but it's not a game that ever needed to rely on it's technical prowess to be appealing and fun anyway.

rumour that a version of pokemon sun and moon titled pokemon stars is coming to switch in 2017. That would move units like mad i bet

Yep http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-11-18-nintendo-switch-will-get-pokemon-sun-and-moon-version

A mainline Pokemon game in HD we can play at home on our TV and on the go, exciting!.
It probably won't look as nice as some other Switch games, but the higher resolution/textures and likely higher poly models for Pokemon etc will have it far outshine Sun/Moon 3DS.

Pretty much all of my 3DS owning friends are getting Sun/Moon so I'm jumping on board. I liked what I played of the Demo, and despite the low resolution of the 3DS I find the art direction very appealing. The last mainline Pokemon game that I played was Red

 

[mahius]

I hope this will be the dawn of console level portable hd gaming

+1 Finally caught up to the times.

I'd be pretty confident it'll be 2016 special edition with the bells and whistles added.

Correction, 2016 Skyrim literally changed jack all. A few graphical tweaks, all DLC included and that's it. I have both and I have an urge to go back to original Skyrim for the mods that can make it look actually modern. So what "bells and whistles"?

I wouldn't really say it's fair to even bring the Pro/Scorpio into the switch talk.

Exactly, don't even compare it to home consoles because that's not what it is. It's a HD handheld with TV output capability, expect more and you're hyping yourself up for disappointment. Also note the pricing rumours below and the fact that Nintendo never releases mainstream Pokemon on home console...

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-11-18-nintendo-switch-will-get-pokemon-sun-and-moon-version

A mainline Pokemon game in HD we can play at home on our TV and on the go, exciting!.
It probably won't look as nice as some other Switch games, but the higher resolution/textures and likely higher poly models for Pokemon etc will have it far outshine Sun/Moon 3DS.

Pretty much all of my 3DS owning friends are getting Sun/Moon so I'm jumping on board. I liked what I played of the Demo, and despite the low resolution of the 3DS I find the art direction very appealing. The last mainline Pokemon game that I played was Red

I've just pre-ordered Moon after reading some reviews on it and if it comes out on Switch, then no biggie. I'll just buy the other version. Though some people think that it will be the 3rd game that Pokemon used to have each generation (rumours name it Pokemon Stars). An improved version of the game will help the sales. I'm in it for the lack of framedrops alone (I've read that even n3DS owners have performance issues)!

The Switch sounds like it will have a strong launch line-up, so as a HD portable gaming device, it will have many a reason to own one. It doesn't need 3rd parties IMO, but then again there are a good deal of folk out there who don't have gaming PC that want just one piece of hardware for their gaming.

There's also rumours of the UK pricing being under £250, some even say £200. That makes it sound much more like a 3DS successor, why pay £180 for a 3DS when a little more can get you a much more capable device?

Here's the link:
http://letsplayvideogames.com/2016/11/report-uk-retailer-game-to-price-nintendo-switch-from-199-99/

 

[Kobi]

Correction, 2016 Skyrim literally changed jack all. A few graphical tweaks, all DLC included and that's it. I have both and I have an urge to go back to original Skyrim for the mods that can make it look actually modern. So what "bells and whistles"?

Oh I assumed judging by the ad's it was a night and day difference?

 

[londonbairn]

All I care about is Zelda. The only franchise I will specifically buy a console for

 

[Minstadave]

All I care about is Zelda. The only franchise I will specifically buy a console for

Did the Wii U ever get a Zelda game that wasn't a remake?