Norwegian rape victim sentenced to 1 year and 4 months of prison in Dubai for sex outside of marriag

Xordium · 19 Jul 2013 at 12:56

Robbo said:
As for the rest of your point, you're trying to defend the indefensible. Don't bother.

What am I trying to defend exactly? Cause I have not once said what has occurred, does occur and most likely will occur over there is correct or right.

What I have said is they hold themselves to different value and cultural structures to us.
What I have said is that Elmarko framed his assessment of they being "backwards countries" was made from a Western viewpoint.
What I have said is that when this thread started there was little strong evidence on this particular incident.
What I have said it that if you admit to a crime over there, in the case of drinking, you will get punished.

I have said nothing over that - but if you would care to show me otherwise then go for it ... so why would I bother defending something I never said. Strawman central in this thread with you lot.

Random Guy · 19 Jul 2013 at 13:25

steve55 said:
MSM have been caught lying 1,000 of times, so why do we need the words of a liar?

I was only speaking from the point of view of having literally no coverage from another source, instead of one translated Norwegian rag.

W.r.t MSM and lying, well, that's a whole 'nother discussion for another day

Twentyone · 19 Jul 2013 at 13:53

It's reported in all media here in Norway, VG/Dagbladet are the two main newspapers.
NRK is the BBC equivalent and they are reporting it too.

iB CoMpL3XiTy · 19 Jul 2013 at 13:56

So they believe she had sex before marriage because she said she was raped, but they don't believe she was raped because there wasn't four witnesses? hmmm....

Kishywish · 19 Jul 2013 at 14:06

Angilion said:
The "logic" runs like this:

A woman says that she's been raped.

She can't provide 4 men who will stand witness in court that it was rape.

The court therefore rules that it wasn't rape.

The court therefore rules that she had extra-marital sex.

By their standards they are being lenient and merciful by imprisoning her rather than torturing her as commanded in the Qu'ran.

Simple and logical, but so wrong from a 'Western' point of view.

Gilly · 19 Jul 2013 at 14:34

Xordium said:
What I have said is that Elmarko framed his assessment of they being "backwards countries" was made from a Western viewpoint.

Of course it was. That's why he can say it is backwards.

Xordium said:
Strawman central in this thread with you lot.

Repeating it doesn't make it more true.

Xordium · 19 Jul 2013 at 15:20

Gilly said:
Repeating it doesn't make it more true.

Care to give me one post where I have said:

This is a fair ruling
This is ok.

Just one Gilly - off you go. Let's see if you can put your money where that mouth is.

Gilly · 19 Jul 2013 at 15:30

Xordium said:
Care to give me one post where I have said:

This is a fair ruling
This is ok.

Just one Gilly - off you go. Let's see if you can put your money where that mouth is.

Where did anyone say you had?

Made your own straw man argument there. Well done!

Xordium · 19 Jul 2013 at 15:35

Gilly said:
Where did anyone say you had?

People were incorrectly attributing a position towards me several times in this thread. I emphasised that towards your comments. You said repeating it would not make it more true therefore implying it is false.

If that is not what you meant then what did you exactly mean by "Repeating it doesn't make it more true."

Pestilence · 19 Jul 2013 at 15:36

Handbags. Literally. Aflame.

Xordium · 19 Jul 2013 at 15:38

Pestilence said:
Handbags. Literally. Aflame.

Doubtful I suspect Gilly still hasn't got a new handbag after the other day when he was commenting on people who were injured and killed.

Gilly · 19 Jul 2013 at 15:38

Xordium said:
People were incorrectly attributing a position towards me several times in this thread. I emphasised that towards your comments. You said repeating it would not make it more true therefore implying it is false.

If that is not what you meant then what did you exactly mean by "Repeating it doesn't make it more true."

Just saying something is a strawman argument doesn't make it so. Doing so more than once doesn't make it any more so.

Xordium said:
Doubtful I suspect Gilly still hasn't got a new handbag after the other day when he was commenting on people who were injured and killed.

Injured or killed. Don't say you still don't understand that one either.

Xordium · 19 Jul 2013 at 15:39

Gilly said:
Just saying something is a strawman argument doesn't make it so. Doing so more than once doesn't make it any more so.

So you are saying there are no posts in this thread that have been made from a false position: challenging me because they believe I condone this ruling.

Xordium · 19 Jul 2013 at 15:40

Gilly said:
Injured or killed. Don't say you still don't understand that one either.

I do know the difference or I would have commented on it. I just said you probably hadn't got a new handbag yet after your exertions.

Gilly · 19 Jul 2013 at 15:57

Xordium said:
So you are saying there are no posts in this thread that have been made from a false position: challenging me because they believe I condone this ruling.

There are posts in this thread that have been made from a false position; and yet you accuse others of this

Darg · 19 Jul 2013 at 15:58

Xordium said:
Care to give me one post where I have said:

This is a fair ruling
This is ok.

Just one Gilly - off you go. Let's see if you can put your money where that mouth is.

It's the fact that you are disagreeing with the statement that the laws, the lawmakers, and by the fact that they represent their country, the country itself is backwards in its treatment of women. I can't understand how you can argue with that with the facts laid before you.

Xordium · 19 Jul 2013 at 16:14

Darg said:
It's the fact that you are disagreeing with the statement that the laws, the lawmakers, and by the fact that they represent their country, the country itself is backwards in its treatment of women. I can't understand how you can argue with that with the facts laid before you.

Care to find me once where I said that they were not backwards.

I initially asked (out of curiosity sake knowing Elmarko general views) why he said "backwards countries". The reasons for that is that is not the sort of thing he normally would say. Normally he would not make a sweeping generalisation and would narrow it down to what he considers to "backwards". That is something he later did. He didn't mean the countries were backwards he mean on this specific issue they were backwards culturally, socially and in judicial process compared say to ourselves.

Prior to his clarification I made the point that our practices could be considered backwards in certain areas, especially by those who are from alien cultures, and this is something Elmarko made a point towards to.

Nowhere have I said they are not backwards. If you would care to demonstrate where I have said that - rather than arguing against, again, something I have never said then save your time.

So you wonder why I would argue that ... well you are wondering because I never said it - you can't demonstrate where I said - so why are you mentioning it exactly?

Castiel · 19 Jul 2013 at 22:03

I suspect that the woman will be pardoned by the UAE, as they have done for most foreigners caught out by their strangely interpreted legal system, particular as it is now Ramadan.

Gazanimal · 20 Jul 2013 at 02:01

The statements and opinions of some people in this thread really does take some believing.

It's a sad endictment of what people are like today....

Haggisman · 20 Jul 2013 at 02:15

Gazanimal said:
The statements and opinions of some people in this thread really does take some believing.

It's a sad endictment of what people are like today....

I have noticed, particularly over the last 12 months or so, that there are several posters on here who seem to have made it their mission to hold the most controversial and inflammatory viewpoints possible, on whatever subject happens to be under discussion, with what appears to be the aim of baiting and toying with everyone else. At least I hope that's the case, since the alternative is that they do actually believe in what they are saying! :eek: