******Official Star Citizen / Squadron 42 Thread******
- Thread starter Raumarik
- Start date
I agree with pretty much everything you wrote mate. The game could have been better managed but it has exceeded everyone's expectations for funding and scope now
I totally agree, they certainly have the money to hand to create something fantastic and maybe that is why there are such strong opinions for and against because I believe that everyone's bottom line is that they want this to be something truly special, I know that I do.
I am just about to drop money on a HOTAS and will no doubt splash out for a CR1 version of the Oculus when it is released just to immerse myself into games like SC and ED further, as for me, games like these are exactly what PC gaming is all about.
If a tree falls in the woods, and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound??
The fact that you hear about issues, doesnt mean they're the only ones capable of making mistakes or having issues. When you find out about them is when you've bought the game based on a lie, and they've conveniently kept these things to themselves.
I just find it incredibly dumb to take information they've been honest and open about, in order to find a way to beat them up with it, in an industry where we're lied to and misled about the state of something we're being asked to pay for, and then have next to no right to a refund when its clear its a pile of junk, junk that they've know was junk, but they've been deceptive and intentionally prevented people of knowing the truth until they've taken their customers money.
So they've had to widen a couple of passageways on a early-pass Avenger because the early-pass character couldnt quite fit through there.
Do we know the artist was unaware the model might not fit? Was there no QA done with the animated character walk-through? Did they perhaps do all this, realise there's still far more work needed to be done and just say we'll deal with it when we figure all this stuff later, as they have done?
Would it be better to not do anything until you figure the whole game out, lock it all down, then build it only to find issues - then what? making changes is apparently a sign of incompetence, leaving them is a disregard for quality and the customer paying for it.
I suspect their model fitted fine, but they're building everything at the moment, and that includes the animated character model, and it wouldnt surprise me if there was just move movement within the character than anticipated. But its hardly the end of the world, with so many things WIP its hardly fair to complain that what they have available to them at this stage, isnt quite sufficient.
Its the very nature of a WIP title, the difference is we're being given access to pretty much everything, and that includes being open and honest about things they've done, seeing things when they're partially complete. Finding fault with WIP things they make known, because they're being honest and open, when nobody else in the industry is on a project close to this scale, is a lousy attitude to take.
@DPI
You boast that you work in this profession, you whine that things arent done soon enough and its all laboured, and then moan that stuff is rushed and not the finished article, and you have the audacity to tell me i have a poor attitude? No, i just dont see why someone bragging like they're somebody who knows the industry, is making such moronic statements which anyone with half a brain would be able to relate to either first hand, or how other developers deal with it by keeping this news in-house and fix or ignore till and release it anyway.
You're getting an insight into a project which for any other title on this sort of scale, you wouldnt even hear about A) the first 2 years of its development, B) would have carefully executed PR statements & media which is extremely selective and artificial, and C) you wouldnt get as much as a glimpse or word about a single possible setback, bug, or anything until either the game was released to the public, the press are allowed to release their reviews, or they offer a beta to the public.
The fact that they're fully disclosing the vast majority of their daily work, warts and all, is refreshing. The fact that people like you use this to highlight them as incompetent and bad at the stuff they're supposed to do, is just moronic.
Differing opinions is fine. Idiotic ignorant statements while boasting you're of this profession isnt. So lets get a list of all the wonderful stuff you've graced this world with, cos obviously, with you being in this industry for quite some time, you must be proud to tell us all the stuff you've done, all flawless and open to public criticism from day 1, obviously. You wouldnt be a hypocrite, who's left things in an unfinished state to work on another area, only to find something doesnt mesh as expected, you have everything perfect before you've even started, everything is perfect before you move onto the next part, and everything integrates with perfection. Right?
The fact that you hear about issues, doesnt mean they're the only ones capable of making mistakes or having issues. When you find out about them is when you've bought the game based on a lie, and they've conveniently kept these things to themselves.
I just find it incredibly dumb to take information they've been honest and open about, in order to find a way to beat them up with it, in an industry where we're lied to and misled about the state of something we're being asked to pay for, and then have next to no right to a refund when its clear its a pile of junk, junk that they've know was junk, but they've been deceptive and intentionally prevented people of knowing the truth until they've taken their customers money.
So they've had to widen a couple of passageways on a early-pass Avenger because the early-pass character couldnt quite fit through there.
Do we know the artist was unaware the model might not fit? Was there no QA done with the animated character walk-through? Did they perhaps do all this, realise there's still far more work needed to be done and just say we'll deal with it when we figure all this stuff later, as they have done?
Would it be better to not do anything until you figure the whole game out, lock it all down, then build it only to find issues - then what? making changes is apparently a sign of incompetence, leaving them is a disregard for quality and the customer paying for it.
I suspect their model fitted fine, but they're building everything at the moment, and that includes the animated character model, and it wouldnt surprise me if there was just move movement within the character than anticipated. But its hardly the end of the world, with so many things WIP its hardly fair to complain that what they have available to them at this stage, isnt quite sufficient.
Its the very nature of a WIP title, the difference is we're being given access to pretty much everything, and that includes being open and honest about things they've done, seeing things when they're partially complete. Finding fault with WIP things they make known, because they're being honest and open, when nobody else in the industry is on a project close to this scale, is a lousy attitude to take.
@DPI
You boast that you work in this profession, you whine that things arent done soon enough and its all laboured, and then moan that stuff is rushed and not the finished article, and you have the audacity to tell me i have a poor attitude? No, i just dont see why someone bragging like they're somebody who knows the industry, is making such moronic statements which anyone with half a brain would be able to relate to either first hand, or how other developers deal with it by keeping this news in-house and fix or ignore till and release it anyway.
You're getting an insight into a project which for any other title on this sort of scale, you wouldnt even hear about A) the first 2 years of its development, B) would have carefully executed PR statements & media which is extremely selective and artificial, and C) you wouldnt get as much as a glimpse or word about a single possible setback, bug, or anything until either the game was released to the public, the press are allowed to release their reviews, or they offer a beta to the public.
The fact that they're fully disclosing the vast majority of their daily work, warts and all, is refreshing. The fact that people like you use this to highlight them as incompetent and bad at the stuff they're supposed to do, is just moronic.
Differing opinions is fine. Idiotic ignorant statements while boasting you're of this profession isnt. So lets get a list of all the wonderful stuff you've graced this world with, cos obviously, with you being in this industry for quite some time, you must be proud to tell us all the stuff you've done, all flawless and open to public criticism from day 1, obviously. You wouldnt be a hypocrite, who's left things in an unfinished state to work on another area, only to find something doesnt mesh as expected, you have everything perfect before you've even started, everything is perfect before you move onto the next part, and everything integrates with perfection. Right?
I didn't boast, I mentioned; you are a somewhat verbose dramatic angry man aren't you? Take a breath, work on curbing that aggressive attitude and you never know we may actually have common ground with regards to SC whereby rational conversation may flow.
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Soldato
I think working in the industry for quite some time means I see things from a slightly different perspective and I see various elements of the design and content being adapted 'on the fly'.
I was sold a very clear initial image by CR and yes, it is early days; actually, scrub that, it isn't
Processes like PBR have added some extra development time for the sake of visual bling, but it isn't that I'm referring to, it is questionable design decisions to begin with. My worry is that the idea I was sold by CR and his commercials won't be realised, or not realised for quite a long time. We may see parts of Sq42 in 2015 but I doubt we will get out hands on a complete PU until well into 2016.
However, hindsight is a wonderful thing though, my Constellation too is awaiting a slight artist reworking (along with PBR) but I know that I wouldn't have pledged what I did initially, feeling as I do now. Hopefully CIG's tweaks for v1.0 and multi crewed ships in v2.0 will restore the faith a little.
If you did work in the industry and have any involvement in project management and deliverables you would recognise the methods being employed.
Im not angry, nor being aggressive, but i think it cute you think someone highlighting your ignorance to something you claim to be your profession needs to be angry and aggressive.
You 'mentioned' it, because you wanted people to believe you had some sort of superior understanding of the situation, and yet you clearly havent got a clue. Anyone who's had any sort of input in developing software knows the back & forth that goes with it all, especially working on a large team, a team which is spread around the world, which is constantly expanding, and a lot of game design aspects havent been fully formed, and yet they still have to produce work to be making progress, to observe issues so that they can be highlighted, solved, and avoided in the future.
You make it sound like this is unheard of, but the fact of the matter is this is completely normal, the difference is that nobody else is being open & honest with its community.
If someone makes that statement. Fine. If someone makes that statement, while claiming to have worked in the same profession for many years, they're an ignorant fool.
You clearly have zero working knowledge which is even close to be relevant to what they're working on, there is absolutely no way anyone who's worked in that sort of environment, who is witnessing another developer be so open and honest about their work, could even contemplate being so childishly critical about things so minor, on such an early stage in development, on something which is a WIP asset.
You've basically had your pants pulled down, and we're all having a good laugh. Thanks.
You 'mentioned' it, because you wanted people to believe you had some sort of superior understanding of the situation, and yet you clearly havent got a clue. Anyone who's had any sort of input in developing software knows the back & forth that goes with it all, especially working on a large team, a team which is spread around the world, which is constantly expanding, and a lot of game design aspects havent been fully formed, and yet they still have to produce work to be making progress, to observe issues so that they can be highlighted, solved, and avoided in the future.
You make it sound like this is unheard of, but the fact of the matter is this is completely normal, the difference is that nobody else is being open & honest with its community.
If someone makes that statement. Fine. If someone makes that statement, while claiming to have worked in the same profession for many years, they're an ignorant fool.
You clearly have zero working knowledge which is even close to be relevant to what they're working on, there is absolutely no way anyone who's worked in that sort of environment, who is witnessing another developer be so open and honest about their work, could even contemplate being so childishly critical about things so minor, on such an early stage in development, on something which is a WIP asset.
You've basically had your pants pulled down, and we're all having a good laugh. Thanks.
Whether you or anyone believe a comment I made is of no concern to me, I was putting forward my honest opinion based on my own experiences, whether you or others agree or disagree is fine, but the manner in which you construct your replies requires considerable work. Like I have already said, you clearly cannot be conversed with reasonably due to your aggressive and derogatory tone.
I am also sure you don't speak for everyone on this board and if others agree with the some of the points I raised, then fine .. if not, that is fine too, but I am not the one using this thread as a platform to attempt to belittle others that simply don't share your view. I am just posting an opinion, try to accept that others may not share your views.
I am also sure you don't speak for everyone on this board and if others agree with the some of the points I raised, then fine .. if not, that is fine too, but I am not the one using this thread as a platform to attempt to belittle others that simply don't share your view. I am just posting an opinion, try to accept that others may not share your views.
Soldato
The problem is that you have sought to elevate your opinion above others by saying that you work in the industry, and have done for a while. You then continue however to post views that are at a complete contrast to anyone who would be involved in software development. You may work in the industry (and I dont care one way or another) but your views differ little from those that are not aware of software development models and project management of deliverables.
Way I see it is people have backed SC because they want it to succeed and want a good Chris Robert's game. My opinion they cocked up a fair bit to start with, have learnt a lot since and have done a pretty fine job of sorting things out of late.
I see no reason to get personal about it though, we all agree on some things and disagree on others, fair enough. I'm all for enthusiasm for this game though, rather than knocking it.
I see no reason to get personal about it though, we all agree on some things and disagree on others, fair enough. I'm all for enthusiasm for this game though, rather than knocking it.
That is a much more reasoned reply and as for seeking to elevate my opinion, that wasn't my intention, my apologies if it came across as such. My point was that I have a slightly different point of view as I have experienced how much corner cutting can happen during development to meet milestones / deadlines etc. This isn't new and it's not going to change anytime soon, but not all delays can be excused on 'updates', some are genuine mistakes. Yes, every game makes them (I wasn't attempting to single out SC) and I too find it shocking the near beta state the majority of games are released in these days where we the purchasers end up acting as paying QA, however the points I raised are in my opinion, valid, as the reworking and adjustments of certain key elements are taking considerable time to redo.
I want SC to succeed, I want to play the game right now more than anything, I look at my Steam / Origin list of games and simply nothing there jumps out and says 'play me', part of the reason for that is SC, this is the kind of game that I built my PC for, but it doesn't mean I don't have my concerns.
Agreed.
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From a layman's perspective I imagine that the continuous hiring of new staff/expansion of CIG during early development has had some effect - either through communication, or simply getting everyone up to speed and on the same page - compared with a fully fledged studio creating a new game where the departments are already in place.
From watching many videos and reading a lot of articles from CIG, it seems to me that the engineering focus (over the last 6 months or so) on their ships in the initial design stage is actually quite prominent. With their physics engine, it has to be! Otherwise the ships would fly horribly.Looking in, it seems to me the Frontier team look at how ships are going to be used from an engineering standpoint ensuring it big enough etc then build the ship around it (though it does help with less detail and more chunkier ships
Just my gut feeling.
Yep, that's what I was saying. They have learnt a lot on how they want to design/create the ships and the newer ships being developed seem to be much better to take into account everything that needs to go into a ship and what it's actually meant to be used for.
e.g. the implementation of a proper standardised cargo system and as people want proper interiors where applicable, and they now have the funding to do it, changes are inevitable.
The Gladius will be available from sometime today for a week (probably $80). It doesn't really hold my interest much as I already have a Hornet, however this comment from Ben makes me think on it a bit...
"The big deal is that unlike the Aurora, the 300i or even the civilian Hornet, the Gladius is a dedicated dogfighter. Where these other ships have been designed or modified for a variety of possible roles, the Gladius is pretty solidly designed for fighting. It's lightly armored and it won't have as many fancy options as the other ships... but it's fast and fierce.
If you're interested in dogfighting, I'd certainly encourage you to either pick one up now or to wait until it's available in the persistent universe. If you're looking for a ship that's going to haul cargo or chart distant jump points, go with a different design. (They'll also make great escort ships for the more dedicated transports.)"
"The big deal is that unlike the Aurora, the 300i or even the civilian Hornet, the Gladius is a dedicated dogfighter. Where these other ships have been designed or modified for a variety of possible roles, the Gladius is pretty solidly designed for fighting. It's lightly armored and it won't have as many fancy options as the other ships... but it's fast and fierce.
If you're interested in dogfighting, I'd certainly encourage you to either pick one up now or to wait until it's available in the persistent universe. If you're looking for a ship that's going to haul cargo or chart distant jump points, go with a different design. (They'll also make great escort ships for the more dedicated transports.)"
It'll likely be out as a cross-chassis upgrade in the future, since all ships bar the ultra rare ones (Scythe and Idris) will be (confirmed yesterday here)
Personally I take anything Ben says with a pinch of salt, I'll let others get it, wait until I've heard how it flies in AC, which is likely a long way off then decide if I should upgrade my Aurora to one or not
Personally I take anything Ben says with a pinch of salt, I'll let others get it, wait until I've heard how it flies in AC, which is likely a long way off then decide if I should upgrade my Aurora to one or not
It'll likely be out as a cross-chassis upgrade in the future, since all ships bar the ultra rare ones (Scythe and Idris) will be (confirmed yesterday here)
Personally I take anything Ben says with a pinch of salt, I'll let others get it, wait until I've heard how it flies in AC, which is likely a long way off then decide if I should upgrade my Aurora to one or not
Yep, it's all marketing along with the 'limited' but not really limited sale tag. It's an interesting lightweight ship with a big power plant but I think it should have been priced more along the lines of the Avenger and 300i, but CIG have their reasons.
P.S. For anyone who wants one CIG are now selling customizable dog tags in a limited run for $15.
Talking about the Dog Tags, what is with the Citizen ID card situation? Have some people received these already? Along with the Deluxe Silver Collector's Box, Spaceship-shaped USB Drive, CD of Game Soundtrack, Glossy Fold-up Star Map, 5 Spaceship Blueprints, 3 Inch Model of Spaceship and Hardback Making-of Star Citizen that are bundled with my package and I guess a lot of you guys too (in various combinations)... I wonder if these will be done on the SQ42 release or the PU release?
physical goods are sent close to release, dogtags etc are all sold as individual items so sent fairly soon. I got my Drake hoodie ($10 delivered!) yesterday it's actually pretty damn nice
Didn't bother with the tags this time all 2500 sold out in about 2 hours.
Didn't bother with the tags this time all 2500 sold out in about 2 hours.