Caporegime
Seeing the trams at A18 packed out is interesting, people everywhere...
******Official Star Citizen / Squadron 42 Thread******
- Thread starter Raumarik
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Caporegime
4:500 so far so good....
Soldato
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Caporegime
Its still up and working...
Soldato
Why would it happy anyways? You are suggesting allowing people to be invulnerable whom can have dramatic control over resources in the universe such as trade, mining and salvage and there no way for interaction to happen to take control of those valuable node points or similar.
Soldato
Aye and yeah looked overall solid. They said they found the bug for the 1000 player version so hoping to try again.
Soldato
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whilst i am not a fan of invincible people in a game personally (I would prefer instancing rules so person A does not even see person B if they are not interested in the same thing)....... i dont think anyone would suggest them being invulnerable against npcs.
so that then just goes to what kind of game Star Citizen is aiming to be...... if its something like EVE then i can see how it would be absurd to allow any player to not be in the same instance of any other player, because of control points etc. in which case private groups or PvP sliders or anything like that would obviously be a no no.
however if it is a game where seeing other players is optional, then that is a different thing all together, and at that point being able to block control points is less important (because even if you have it sewn up in your instance, it does not mean it wont be clear in a different instance/group.
Either of the above is ok, but is something the devs need to be honest about from the absolute get go (for instance EVE is a game i have less than zero interest in playing)....... My concern about star citizen is they took a bunch of money pitching one thing and have since changed things and kind of looks a bit like a bait and switch to some people.
the PvP slider was key to be buying into kickstarter.... this was then pullled BUT at the same time there was definite talk of private servers and what not (such that they even sold a guide to running a private server - to be delivered down the line).. but even that seems to have cooled off now.
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Soldato
I think the problem with things like the PvP slider and private servers is it was based on a 2012 vision of the game that didn't have these giant physicalised locations you are visiting freely. The problem is CIG kept quite too long about anything.
And yeah I am assuming if they go the route of places being instanced say by global regions, north America, Europe etc then indeed the locking down of location and such should be instance specific as thar actually males sense but that doesn't lock or prevent PvP course.
As they have noted the equivalent to the slider from low, medium, high chance of PvP is high security, medium secuirty and low security star systems so if you are wanting to avoid PvP as much as possible then hanging about in high sec makes sense.
Note I don't pirate game at all so I'm looking at this just in terms of game structure and allowing open play. For honestly people that want zero PvP I do feel things like that space trucking game, erm star trucker and hardspace shipbreaker are basically the games. Of which to note wish both versions of our mini games in SC were closer to them at min. And mining closer to that of ED.
And yeah I am assuming if they go the route of places being instanced say by global regions, north America, Europe etc then indeed the locking down of location and such should be instance specific as thar actually males sense but that doesn't lock or prevent PvP course.
As they have noted the equivalent to the slider from low, medium, high chance of PvP is high security, medium secuirty and low security star systems so if you are wanting to avoid PvP as much as possible then hanging about in high sec makes sense.
Note I don't pirate game at all so I'm looking at this just in terms of game structure and allowing open play. For honestly people that want zero PvP I do feel things like that space trucking game, erm star trucker and hardspace shipbreaker are basically the games. Of which to note wish both versions of our mini games in SC were closer to them at min. And mining closer to that of ED.
Soldato
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i see what you are saying and at the end of the day the game will be what it will be regardless of whether i think SC have changed the game to a point which spoils it.
however not wanting PvP =/= wanting space trucking simulator (though i do like a bit of space trucking).
i played to completion every wing commander (and strike commander), and privateer game going as well as freelancer and starlancer....... as well as being big fan of X wing and TIE Fighter so l love a bit of pew pew......... i just dont want to be responsible for other players enjoyment, and generally dislike multiplayer games with people i do not know, doubly so when competitive..
I also generally do not have faith in game devs being able to balance multiplayer games with asynchronous PvP. its not so bad in say battlefield aside from cheating pond scum) but in a game where equipment is so vastly different i do not believe the devs will be able to stop a few bad actors kerb stomping other players and pushing them out of the game.
time will tell of course
however not wanting PvP =/= wanting space trucking simulator (though i do like a bit of space trucking).
i played to completion every wing commander (and strike commander), and privateer game going as well as freelancer and starlancer....... as well as being big fan of X wing and TIE Fighter so l love a bit of pew pew......... i just dont want to be responsible for other players enjoyment, and generally dislike multiplayer games with people i do not know, doubly so when competitive..
I also generally do not have faith in game devs being able to balance multiplayer games with asynchronous PvP. its not so bad in say battlefield aside from cheating pond scum) but in a game where equipment is so vastly different i do not believe the devs will be able to stop a few bad actors kerb stomping other players and pushing them out of the game.
time will tell of course
Caporegime
Yes, it actually was, to me a surprise that in the 4 server 500 player test there was no actioning lag, no real desync and nothing major went wrong, it was no worse than live is.
4 server mesh, 500 player... check. credit where credit is due, good job CIG.
6:1000 next...
Soldato
Yeah I think if they can get the few fixes in next few days then the 6:1000 would be solid. Noting also that means they now going for 166 player per server from the current 100 player server then. There was rumour chat before they found issue to go 2000 player count, not sure on server number for that in question but maybe a 10:2000 to take it to 200 players.
The big issues is just everyone getting on at once. It generally wouldn't matter if we had 5000 people split between two star systems cause that like a dozen start locations, plus whoever log off people are and such forth. Still probably need to double locations both for hangars and like central plaza areas where you call ships up. More habs and floors for cities and like 4 lifts per tower rsther than the normal 1.
Caporegime
Right you hit on something there, if they are going multi-thousand MMO, and it looks like this is certainly their intention, if they get 1000 working, will they stop there? No!
They need more location habs and hangers, and yes more elevators to get to ground level, the amount of times i watched people get pushed through elevator walls with no one wanting to wait during these tests..... even the tams were jam packed.
All this is great, but it need rethinking, none of these halo cities had multiple hundred's in mind when being designed.
There was a CIG dev on one of the trams with us, he put in chat "hmmm.... this tram is a bit busy"
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Soldato
Aye and I mean as numbers go to but more star systems do then the dilution will happen over time.
But yeah they need to fix the initial load in..I actually thought trams being that crushed was fin to watch at least ha. Again like after the initial get in etc things will calm in locations.
Soldato
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Well, having people constantly killing others won't make the economy bloom either... or exploration... or salvage... It can always be one instance with PvP always ON and another instance of the world that allows you to opt in only if you want. Basically PvE, with players working together "against" the verse.
IMHO, stuff like seal clubbing and the like could very easily make some careers or gameplay loops redundant. Or... they just develop their system good enough to procedural generate an universe the size of NMS.
PS: Unless every single player is within the same world/instance, the economy talk is pointless.
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Soldato
But it isn't constant killing. In fact in terms of being pirated or killed whilst I've been cargo hauling or mining since you could do those things I can count on one hand literally. It isn't that bad in this big scary universe.
And you have seemingly dismissed the point of low, medium and high sec which yeah won't ve perfect but it will be a reasonably solid balance to things (hopefully).
The economy is one ecosystem all linked together. It is one whole so you need to consider the same rules for all players for it to be balanced be that all PvE or all PvP etc. It isn't pointless just cause there instances as long as the rules are even.
I think we will probably always disagree on this fundamental though. I don't think you can ever split the player base like that. It failed miserably in ED for example.
Soldato
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I'm not talking about now, but further into the future when the player count will grow.
Yes, security will help and that's about the only... hope. Although, I don't have much faith in that.
As for instances, in the same area you have a pirate attack in yours, but there is none in mine. Or you destroy something, but is fine in mine. I don't see that working very well, but... time will tell.
Caporegime
I've said pretty much all i wanted to say on this matter, but the point about ED, yes, they had a MP server and and single player server.
PVP'ers went to the MP server camping around starter locations, not PVP'ing, just waiting for unsuspecting new players to show up, i fell in to the trap in the first couple of hours of playing it, not a nice experience and posted about it on the forums, among all the "get gud noob" nonsense some people said either don't go to the MP server or get out of the starter location ASAP, i did the later wanting to encounter real players in that verse but in a more friendly way.
I never did, not once in 600 hours on the MP server away from starter locations.
I've been stopped on Daymar just outside of Brios Breakers Yard many times by people scanning me or demanding i declare my cargo, sometimes they would straight up attack me for having illegal cargo or they would let me pass for a fee. Either way they role played their intentions.
Both those things are valid and to me part of the experience, i never had a problem with any of it.
People sitting waiting just to attack people for no reason other than that being their entertainment is an entirely different thing, these people have a sociopathic mentality, they are Seal Clubbing and my purpose is not to be their entertainment. "I like PVP and you should too, get good" is just gass lighting by W*******. and it can get out of control if the game developer also sees value in that mind set for whatever reason.
If when quantum snared, you have no way to escape because you are limited to SCM speed then you absolutely are being forced in to PVP, the option to escape has been taken away from you, which is what seal clubbers want, they are just looking for victims. They have complained that people being able to escape is a problem for them, of course it is, think about it.
By the same token, this suggests that CIG do not believe an escape option is valid gameplay.
PVP'ers went to the MP server camping around starter locations, not PVP'ing, just waiting for unsuspecting new players to show up, i fell in to the trap in the first couple of hours of playing it, not a nice experience and posted about it on the forums, among all the "get gud noob" nonsense some people said either don't go to the MP server or get out of the starter location ASAP, i did the later wanting to encounter real players in that verse but in a more friendly way.
I never did, not once in 600 hours on the MP server away from starter locations.
I've been stopped on Daymar just outside of Brios Breakers Yard many times by people scanning me or demanding i declare my cargo, sometimes they would straight up attack me for having illegal cargo or they would let me pass for a fee. Either way they role played their intentions.
Both those things are valid and to me part of the experience, i never had a problem with any of it.
People sitting waiting just to attack people for no reason other than that being their entertainment is an entirely different thing, these people have a sociopathic mentality, they are Seal Clubbing and my purpose is not to be their entertainment. "I like PVP and you should too, get good" is just gass lighting by W*******. and it can get out of control if the game developer also sees value in that mind set for whatever reason.
If when quantum snared, you have no way to escape because you are limited to SCM speed then you absolutely are being forced in to PVP, the option to escape has been taken away from you, which is what seal clubbers want, they are just looking for victims. They have complained that people being able to escape is a problem for them, of course it is, think about it.
By the same token, this suggests that CIG do not believe an escape option is valid gameplay.
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It will work smaller instance wise if those instances share the same universal economy, so they an influence each other directly. Essentially making it the same world.
I have a feeling that won't happen and possibly can't though due to how CIG have historically talked about players being able to blockade locations etc - that wouldn't work if there was a few hundred copies of the same station etc.
Caporegime
*Sigh* Well at least he's honest about it, nothing is more insulting to ones intelligence when they tell you obvious fibs because they don't want to admit to changing something because they don't like it and _____ you. "we want to encourage multicrew gameplay" what by taking away what are practically fixed guns and giving them to the copilot who can't manoeuvre the bloody ship?
No this is a daft way to cut the firepower by half.
what does it mean "the corsair is getting a lot more kills than the want it to be" ?
Again the Corsair has a lot of drawbacks, living quarters are poorly laid out, it doesn't have a lot of cargo for the shier bloody size of it, its tricky to land as it has very low landing gear, the huge fold up wings make it tricky to enter and exit front loading hangers.
It doesn't get used for cargo because it doesn't have the capacity and its awkward to move about with, the Connie Taurus is much better, its not an exploration ship, its not transport, its not a data runner.....
Its a Corsair, to put that in to context a Corsair a type of warship favoured by pirates, favoured for its firepower, not a comfortable curser, every inch of space had a cannon in it.
The Drake Corsair is difficult to handle, its heavy, like a warship overloaded with firepower, but with practice you can tame the beast, its why people chose the Corsair as their warship and then learn how to make it effective in its role.
This is its purpose, what is the Corsair if not that? A paperweight.
Do you have a new Warship to sell CIG?
No this is a daft way to cut the firepower by half.
what does it mean "the corsair is getting a lot more kills than the want it to be" ?
Again the Corsair has a lot of drawbacks, living quarters are poorly laid out, it doesn't have a lot of cargo for the shier bloody size of it, its tricky to land as it has very low landing gear, the huge fold up wings make it tricky to enter and exit front loading hangers.
It doesn't get used for cargo because it doesn't have the capacity and its awkward to move about with, the Connie Taurus is much better, its not an exploration ship, its not transport, its not a data runner.....
Its a Corsair, to put that in to context a Corsair a type of warship favoured by pirates, favoured for its firepower, not a comfortable curser, every inch of space had a cannon in it.
The Drake Corsair is difficult to handle, its heavy, like a warship overloaded with firepower, but with practice you can tame the beast, its why people chose the Corsair as their warship and then learn how to make it effective in its role.
This is its purpose, what is the Corsair if not that? A paperweight.
Do you have a new Warship to sell CIG?