Ole's sacked, who next?

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Ayahuasca said:
That seems a bit naive when we're talking about the manager of the biggest club on the planet. There's a time and a place to ask players what they think can be done better, putting it on them during a 15-minute break when you then go on to lose the game looks a bit suspect.
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I can't tell from the article preview but it doesn't say when these talks happened, it could have been after the final whistle. Even if it did happen at halftime I don't see a problem really, not sure why a dialog happening would be a bad thing. I'd be more concerned if players weren't speaking up about problems.
 
Shamikebab said:
I can't tell from the article preview but it doesn't say when these talks happened, it could have been after the final whistle. Even if it did happen at halftime I don't see a problem really, not sure why a dialog happening would be a bad thing. I'd be more concerned if players weren't speaking up about problems.
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I was conflating the article with something I read elsewhere, although it does look like his halftime team talk was also an issue.
 
Shamikebab said:
I can't tell from the article preview but it doesn't say when these talks happened, it could have been after the final whistle. Even if it did happen at halftime I don't see a problem really, not sure why a dialog happening would be a bad thing. I'd be more concerned if players weren't speaking up about problems.
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After the Leicester game, I believe.
 
The players do have to take some responsibility. Maguire, for example, is an 80 million pound defender yet appears to have absolutely no idea how to organise a backline. As club captain you would expect him to be vocal on the pitch but the defence was all over the place on Sunday. Defenders pushing up the pitch out of sequence, fullbacks moving so far across the pitch they were almost on the opposite side and no one marking men or tracking runners. Running in to Shaw was embarrassing to watch, he should've screamed at Shaw to get out of the way or run straight through him to get the ball. He's not even remotely close to being the leader on the pitch that team needs.
 
Pigeon_Killer said:
Maguire, for example, is an 80 million pound defender
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The problem is that he isn't an £80m defender. He's not even a £30m defender. I said it before he even signed for Utd, put Maguire in a team that defends the edge of their 18 yard box with his fullbacks tucked in and ask him to head things away and make blocks and he's a decent player. Put him in a team that plays on the front foot, pressing higher up the pitch and without the protection of a fullback tucked in by his side and he's a car crash.

He had no idea where he was on Sunday. He didn't know if he should be following Firmino into midfield, picking up Salah or holding his position and in the end he done none of those things, often just stood in no mans land like a tugboat in the middle of the Atlantic. He's just too slow and too clumsy to defend on the front foot. It wasn't just Sunday or vs Leicester last weekend either. Newcastle's goal earlier this season came from Maguire getting skinned on the halfway line, against Southampton he almost cost Utd the game (as well as being at fault for Southampton's goal) after being too slow on the ball midway in Utd's half. There's been so many more instances of the same things in previous seasons too.
 
Everyone outside of man u fans and the English media (no shock they over hype an average English player into something they aren't) can see Maguire is insanely limited and not suited to a side with league winning ambitions. I can still remember Van Der Vart's shock when he found out he signed for 80 million. Any manager coming in is going to be ripping the spine of the current team to peices and starting again.
 
I don't disagree that involving your players in discussions is a bad thing, but it depends on the balance of asking for their opinions vs not knowing what's wrong yourself. Nobody here was privy to those conversations, but what you can go on is the perception Ole is giving people which is he doesn't have enough strategic ability.

Some of substitutions have been questionable for instance and against Young Boys it was very much a case of throw as much attacking players on as possible. I'm not sure if anyone caught his interview prior to Sunday's game but when asked what does it take to beat a team like Liverpool, he didn't have an answer. Well he did, he said it took many things and the interviewer had to ask for him to prioritise those many things.

I'm pretty sure the most sensible answer that any manager will give when faced with how do you deal with a team that's more capable than yours is a bingo list of:
  • Stay compact
  • Don't conceded early, stay in the game and manage the initial pressure
  • Be clinical
He certainly doesn't fill me with confidence that he's someone that I want to follow or be lead by. I think he's too nice of a guy in my opinion, even Rio said he was one of the quietest players in the dressing room.
 
It's tricky talking about players because it's hard to tell what is poor play and what is poor management. Shaw under Jose was one of the weakest left backs in the league but under Solskjaer has turned into one of the best. I'm definitely prepared to give Maguire more time under a different manager. He was fantastic last season and for England in the summer.
 
Mekrel said:
Some of substitutions have been questionable for instance and against Young Boys it was very much a case of throw as much attacking players on as possible.
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What?

We made 4 subs against Young Boys (we'll ignore Martial's as that was right at the death)
Dalot on for Sancho - defensive
Varane on for VdB - defensive
Matic on for Bruno - defensive
Lingard on for Ronaldo - defensive

Where were these attacking players he threw on?
 
My bad! I probably got that game confused with another game when he was trying to get back into a game after having gone behind. Regardless, in that YB game, the shape was completely lost after the substitutions. Lingard was all over the place when he came on, that may or may not be due to Ole.

Actually remembering that game now, we conceded again after he took Fred off for Martial, plus Dalot was only in reaction to the red card.
 
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Shamikebab said:
lmao if this is true https://twitter.com/sistoney67/status/1453396768301932552?t=LazR-j8NKUt65IvK-aMyTA&s=09

Re Sir Alex Ferguson’s visit to Carrington yesterday. He was being fitted for a new club suit, as were other club officials. This had been planned for some time. Ferguson never saw Ole Gunnar Solskjaer or any players during his time there.
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If that's true it just shows the BS that some media come up with fabricating everything out of nothing.

It's very hard to know what to trust these days, especially with these types of stories. i do feel though anything involving Sir Alex would be kept a close secret and no journalist would find out that quick.
 
JamesH85 said:
If that's true it just shows the BS that some media come up with fabricating everything out of nothing.

It's very hard to know what to trust these days, especially with these types of stories. i do feel though anything involving Sir Alex would be kept a close secret and no journalist would find out that quick.
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Nothing is true until he gets the boot basically. Everyone takes everything as the truth these days.
 
Shamikebab said:
Barca lost, Juve lost too. Seems everyone is struggling! Seems Bayern were missing their manager though, didn't realise he had covid.
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Barcelona just lost messi, suarez etc.

Their team is awful but they can't afford to rebuild or spend right now.

Juve just lost Ronaldo and had to shift him to save money as they are not financially well off at the moment.

Meanwhile we just spent

70m on sancho
38m on varane
12m on the

And have our best squad in the last 10 years.

So comparing us to Barcelona is farcical. Similarly with Juve, apart from Dybala and Chiesa they squad is old or substandard for them.

While bayern did lose and played pretty much their best players it was just the dfb pokal Cup.


We already went out of the league Cup so this is their equivalent.
 
Yeah, its an issue when you are playing like trash over a long period. One off games, not so much. There was a weekend last season where United lost 6-1 to Spurs was it and then Liverpool tried to make us feel better by losing 7-2.
 
I do question the effect of signing Ronaldo has had on Bruno though.

When he missed that pen the other week it was very uncharacteristic.

The way he slashed at it and skied it where he's usually much more measured and calm. Their keeper was trying to bait cr7 into taking it.

Same against Liverpool in the first 5 mins Bruno had a great chance but blaster it over when a cute finish would have put us 1-0 up.

Maybe the pressure of having cr7 breathing down your neck has put that on the shoulders of more players now. Trying too hard.
 
The main effect of Ronaldo arriving is that the whole team has to revolve around him and his weaknesses and lack of work rate. A good manager would probably struggle to do that with the current set of players and Ole is not even an average manager at PL levels.

The fleeting moments we have seen Cavani this season have made it so apparent that Ronaldo is just being lazy. I have no idea how fit he is in cardio terms but Cavani is always on the move and works for the team. Ronaldo just wants to be there at the final moment to score the goal. He doesn't care about the rest of it, he just wants the glory. Hes like the team manager who goes to collect the award and takes all the praise and doesn't even acknowledge the people below him who did all the work.

Ole kind of hid behind the quality of his players and the awful season most of the big sides had last year and his squad kind of worked. This year he has tried to do something more ambitious than counter attacking and has come up woefully short. The only summer signing that made any sense for Ole was Verane because he isn't a system player and he is just a solid defender. Sancho is completely the wrong player for Oles "tactics" and Ronaldo has just done exactly what I said he would do and completely ruined any balance the team did have.

Ole has managed to go from barely getting by to being horrendously exposed and largely through his own work.
 
I bet he now goes on to win at least 2 of the next 3 games and stay until the end of the season because that’s just how his luck has been. Frustrating.
 
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