Playstation 4 being announced February 20th?

GAC said:
generally someone lets it slip at e3 or in a pr briefing before the launch, just hope its sooner than later so i can get one shipped over.
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do you know someone over there who would buy it on your behalf then ship? or would you be buying from a retailer based over there?

i imagine warranty issues could arrive if you got a dodgy one?
 
Psycho Sonny said:
do you know someone over there who would buy it on your behalf then ship? or would you be buying from a retailer based over there?

i imagine warranty issues could arrive if you got a dodgy one?
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i know a few people there so should be able to get someone to pick me one up. now if i can get someone to hit a duty free shop and get it tax free even better :D
 
RedStarRiot said:
You have taken the retail price of DDR3 RAM and GDDR5 RAM is not available as such as it only comes on a graphics card so the comparison doesn't make sense. Plus they would would not be paying anywhere near £100 direct from the manufacturer per console, that would be nuts.
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Well ask yourself why it isn't available, it is because it is sooooooo damn expensive it is not viable unless in top of the range graphics cards.

Now ask yourself this, not even an £900 top of the range graphics card comes with 8GB of DDR5

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-110-GI&groupid=701&catid=1914&subcat=1576

I can only guess, but even then I imagine 8GB of GDDR 5 would cost several hundred at retail if available for PC's, therefore it is easily foreseeable it costs £100 from the manufacturer.


Also if they release these at £300 like you say, then they will be selling them to amazon for say £250, amazon make £10 per console after p and p and all other associated costs.

I cannot see Sony selling these to retailers for £250, as like i say the RAM alone will cost them roughly £100. if they do it would be great, but it would be a huge gamble on their part to rake in sales via licensing, content and games, etc.
 
Psycho Sonny said:
8GB of DDR3 is roughly £40-£50, so just imagine how much 8GB of GDDR5 will cost?

RedStarRiot said:
See the point above, I reckon it will retail for £399 @ launch. But Retailers will force you into bundle options which are considerably more, just like they did with the PS3. The cost of the RAM being used is going to be over £100 most likely. Therefore I cannot see them selling it for £300, it would be too much of a loss, even at £399 they would be making a loss.
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Wow this thread is full of obscenely ridiculous assumptions.

Do you genuinely think that 8GB of GDDR5 is going to cost £100 for Sony to buy?

:/

You do realise that shops won't be buying them for the RRP as well don't you?

Ugh my brain.
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Psycho Sonny said:
Well ask yourself why it isn't available, it is because it is sooooooo damn expensive it is not viable unless in top of the range graphics cards.

Now ask yourself this, not even an £900 top of the range graphics card comes with 8GB of DDR5

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-110-GI&groupid=701&catid=1914&subcat=1576

I can only guess, but even then I imagine 8GB of GDDR 5 would cost several hundred at retail if available for PC's, therefore it is easily foreseeable it costs £100 from the manufacturer.


Also if they release these at £300 like you say, then they will be selling them to amazon for say £250, amazon make £10 per console after p and p and all other associated costs.

I cannot see Sony selling these to retailers for £250, as like i say the RAM alone will cost them roughly £100. if they do it would be great, but it would be a huge gamble on their part to rake in sales via licensing, content and games, etc.
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Your logic is so faulty. You can get graphics cards for around the £70 mark with GDDR5, but the main reason it's on the higher end cards isn't due to expense, it's because lower end GPUs simply wouldn't make use of the increased bandwidth that it offers.

GDDR5 isn't available as desktop DIMMs because nothing supports it for one, and is generally used for graphics cards so isn't really directly comparable.

Mentioning the amount of RAM on Titan too doesn't make any sense. There's no reason for it to have 8GB just for the GPU, and secondly due to the 384 bit memory bus, multiples of 3 work best, the same density RAM chips can be used instead of different density, and for the price people are asked to pay for it, using 3GB of RAM would have looked cheap. GDDR5 really doesn't cost add much as you are assuming using faulty logic.
 
Psycho Sonny said:
Well ask yourself why it isn't available, it is because it is sooooooo damn expensive it is not viable unless in top of the range graphics cards.

Now ask yourself this, not even an £900 top of the range graphics card comes with 8GB of DDR5

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-110-GI&groupid=701&catid=1914&subcat=1576

I can only guess, but even then I imagine 8GB of GDDR 5 would cost several hundred at retail if available for PC's, therefore it is easily foreseeable it costs £100 from the manufacturer.


Also if they release these at £300 like you say, then they will be selling them to amazon for say £250, amazon make £10 per console after p and p and all other associated costs.

I cannot see Sony selling these to retailers for £250, as like i say the RAM alone will cost them roughly £100. if they do it would be great, but it would be a huge gamble on their part to rake in sales via licensing, content and games, etc.
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No, its not because its "Soooo damn expensive" its because there is not really a need for it in PC gaming at this moment in time. The reason the very top GPU's have this is mainly for multi monitor set ups and so on. There is not one current game on the PC that takes up more than 2gb of VRAM on one monitor at 1080p. So put more than 2-3GB of GDDR5 RAM into graphics cards that people don't need. The RAM will not cost Sony £100, that is just silly.
 
spoffle said:
Psycho Sonny said:
8GB of DDR3 is roughly £40-£50, so just imagine how much 8GB of GDDR5 will cost?



Wow this thread is full of obscenely ridiculous assumptions.

Do you genuinely think that 8GB of GDDR5 is going to cost £100 for Sony to buy?

:/

You do realise that shops won't be buying them for the RRP as well don't you?

Ugh my brain.
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This looks like I originally stated this nonsense :p
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MrLOL said:
I think thats going to be Drive Club.

It is being developed by Evolution Studios, who had Motorstorm as a PS3 launch title.

http://www.computerandvideogames.co...ll-drive-club-earmarked-as-ps4-launch-titles/
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hmmm that sounded WAY too group based to be a launch title for me, imo you need a bit of solo play and a bit of online (after all do you want online stats to go into minuses while you get used to the performance of the new system - a little too much distraction).

Sounds like a good game, but imo it needs to be down the line a little so that there are enough PS4's already out there

Psycho Sonny said:
Well ask yourself why it isn't available, it is because it is sooooooo damn expensive it is not viable unless in top of the range graphics cards.

Now ask yourself this, not even an £900 top of the range graphics card comes with 8GB of DDR5

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-110-GI&groupid=701&catid=1914&subcat=1576

I can only guess, but even then I imagine 8GB of GDDR 5 would cost several hundred at retail if available for PC's, therefore it is easily foreseeable it costs £100 from the manufacturer.


Also if they release these at £300 like you say, then they will be selling them to amazon for say £250, amazon make £10 per console after p and p and all other associated costs.

I cannot see Sony selling these to retailers for £250, as like i say the RAM alone will cost them roughly £100. if they do it would be great, but it would be a huge gamble on their part to rake in sales via licensing, content and games, etc.
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Nice guess work on gddr cost, but thats all it is - you have absolutely no way of knowing the cost. I could just as easily pick a number out of the air, £100 , and say thats the cost by christmas of x componant.

Also remember AMD themselves are doing the apu/gpu and of course with their Radeon graphics cards are buying in HUGE quantities of GDDR, so these costs are not realistic in the slightest and there is no way to know.

From what I understand there is no reason to design a main chipset around GDDR5, its just not suitable for main system memory (I seem to recall a couple of long articles about this when Nv /AMD started using it a few years ago) which is why it isnt availalbe, not directly to do with expense.

Main Gfx cards dont need 8GB of onboard ram that is why, and stop trying ot think of it in those terms its only going to be more confusing. PS4 has Unified memory (because of the combined APU/GPU) which is why there is comparatively so much) but this is also being addressed by the CPU , its not solely for the use of graphics so general PC architechture is a bad comparison.


I dont believe retailers make that much money on consoles, they rely on the games to make their income (thats certainly been the process in the past anyway). I would be surprised if any retailers made as much as £50/unit

Its not going to be anywhere as expensive as £425 as the PS3 was at launch (I have a feeling the BR was quite a big contributor to the high price as well).

By the time they go on sale - I cant see anything in the PS4 package being that costly to manufacture. DS4 's screen depending on how much they want to do with it, how accurate it needs to be (dpi "res" dependant possibly) but its also a pretty small screen as well, the added buttons etc are pennies . Whats the cost of 1/2 an iphone screen , maybe even 1/3 - given the quantaties I cant see this being a majorly costly componant.
 
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the ps3 cost so much at launch thanks to having a ps2 inside it as well.

as for the ps4's launch price im guessing 300-350, depending on how well the manufacturing goes. but 400 will be a tad too much for many especially with the wiiU and a new xbox floating around sooner or later.
 
FrankJH said:
Also remember AMD themselves are doing the apu/gpu and of course with their Radeon graphics cards are buying in HUGE quantities of GDDR, so these costs are not realistic in the slightest and there is no way to know.

From what I understand there is no reason to design a main chipset around GDDR5, its just not suitable for main system memory (I seem to recall a couple of long articles about this when Nv /AMD started using it a few years ago) which is why it isnt availalbe, not directly to do with expense.

Main Gfx cards dont need 8GB of onboard ram that is why, and stop trying ot think of it in those terms its only going to be more confusing. PS4 has Unified memory (because of the combined APU/GPU) which is why there is comparatively so much) but this is also being addressed by the CPU , its not solely for the use of graphics so general PC architechture is a bad comparison.
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CPUs just dont need the bandwidth GDDR5 supplies, youd rather compromise and have lower latencies, the question is GPGPUs sit somewhere in the middle so its hard to answer because it never been attempted before as a commercial solution. Ultimately though as its alwas going to be the GPU thats going to be taxed using memory thats more 'compatible' just doesnt sound like a bad idea. A console probably one of the few platforms where at least its worth trying as at least its fixed and hopefully Sony make the tools so developers can code at a low level.

8GB of RAM is a great selling point but honestly even thinking its shared between CPU and GPU it still seems overkill, it very much appears to be a (very) long term solution. I just cant see where game developers will really use it so no doubt a hefty chunk will be used for a proper multitasking OS and things like suspend.

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
FrankJH said:
hmmm that sounded WAY too group based to be a launch title for me, imo you need a bit of solo play and a bit of online (after all do you want online stats to go into minuses while you get used to the performance of the new system - a little too much distraction).

Sounds like a good game, but imo it needs to be down the line a little so that there are enough PS4's already out there



Nice guess work on gddr cost, but thats all it is - you have absolutely no way of knowing the cost. I could just as easily pick a number out of the air, £100 , and say thats the cost by christmas of x componant.

Also remember AMD themselves are doing the apu/gpu and of course with their Radeon graphics cards are buying in HUGE quantities of GDDR, so these costs are not realistic in the slightest and there is no way to know.

From what I understand there is no reason to design a main chipset around GDDR5, its just not suitable for main system memory (I seem to recall a couple of long articles about this when Nv /AMD started using it a few years ago) which is why it isnt availalbe, not directly to do with expense.

Main Gfx cards dont need 8GB of onboard ram that is why, and stop trying ot think of it in those terms its only going to be more confusing. PS4 has Unified memory (because of the combined APU/GPU) which is why there is comparatively so much) but this is also being addressed by the CPU , its not solely for the use of graphics so general PC architechture is a bad comparison.


I dont believe retailers make that much money on consoles, they rely on the games to make their income (thats certainly been the process in the past anyway). I would be surprised if any retailers made as much as £50/unit

Its not going to be anywhere as expensive as £425 as the PS3 was at launch (I have a feeling the BR was quite a big contributor to the high price as well).

By the time they go on sale - I cant see anything in the PS4 package being that costly to manufacture. DS4 's screen depending on how much they want to do with it, how accurate it needs to be (dpi "res" dependant possibly) but its also a pretty small screen as well, the added buttons etc are pennies . Whats the cost of 1/2 an iphone screen , maybe even 1/3 - given the quantaties I cant see this being a majorly costly componant.
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This, very good post :)
 
ps3ud0 said:
CPUs just dont need the bandwidth GDDR5 supplies, youd rather compromise and have lower latencies, the question is GPGPUs sit somewhere in the middle so its hard to answer because it never been attempted before as a commercial solution. Ultimately though as its alwas going to be the GPU thats going to be taxed using memory thats more 'compatible' just doesnt sound like a bad idea. A console probably one of the few platforms where at least its worth trying as at least its fixed and hopefully Sony make the tools so developers can code at a low level.

8GB of RAM is a great selling point but honestly even thinking its shared between CPU and GPU it still seems overkill, it very much appears to be a (very) long term solution. I just cant see where game developers will really use it so no doubt a hefty chunk will be used for a proper multitasking OS and things like suspend.

ps3ud0 :cool:
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Thank you for the 1st part, I really couldnt remember so thats very interesting to get a more in depth reasoning.

How much graphics ram is used in pc's in a typical AAA game?

While I know its unified, Im wondering whether it was a straight choice between 4Gb and 8Gb (the 1st gen i7 used triple sticks didnt it - but this didnt last long -pc architecture is back to pairs) , I would suggest 4Gb is potentially a very limitiing factor.

Your reasonings for 8GB make a lot of sense with what Sony plan on doing as well.
 
Im probably out of touch, especially with Crysis 3 now out but Id say 2GB for graphics RAM is a good ballpark figure for most games (if we assume 1080p). But I suppose youd have to consider the amount of system RAM used aswell on top of that - I guess 8GB gives a lot of headroom for the near future, makes sense I guess considering they wont be replaced this decade most likely.

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
ps3ud0 said:
Im probably out of touch, especially with Crysis 3 now out but Id say 2GB for graphics RAM is a good ballpark figure for most games (if we assume 1080p). But I suppose youd have to consider the amount of system RAM used aswell on top of that - I guess 8GB gives a lot of headroom for the near future, makes sense I guess considering they wont be replaced this decade most likely.

ps3ud0 :cool:
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No, most games played on PC at 1080p use under 1GB still. Very few go over that and usually they have super high textures or mods. 8GB is tons, likely for the suspend feature they have been taking about. Doubt games will make use of the full 8GB until quite late in its life.
 
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