Poll: Poll: should the UK ban the islamic veil?

Sould the UK ban the Islamic veil as the French did?

  • Yes, ban the veil in the UK

    Votes: 688 64.9%
  • Don't like the veil, but a ban is not the right approach

    Votes: 255 24.1%
  • No

    Votes: 117 11.0%

  • Total voters
    1,060
Caporegime
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I Dont believe in any religion, im a aithest


Delicious irony.


and only believe in what i see tho i do think karma is ture but that isnt a religion is it?.


You believe in some sort of balancing force that judges all creatures along a arbitrary moral line, assigns points and deals out punishments and rewards based on those points?

Or do you believe in the statistical corelation between number of people helped and number of people willing to help you?
 
Associate
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Delicious irony.





You believe in some sort of balancing force that judges all creatures along a arbitrary moral line, assigns points and deals out punishments and rewards based on those points?

Or do you believe in the statistical corelation between number of people helped and number of people willing to help you?

Meh your confusing me i didnt do RE in school a simple do bad things to others and bad things will happen to you, a bit like luck ?
 

RDM

RDM

Soldato
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what's the problem with asking?

Yes customer can refuse but they have to leave.

I do not know about education. I don't see why it would be different though. it is up to the owners, which it should be. A ban does not solve anything, does not tackle the problem and is totally stupid.

It isn't quite as simple as that due to religion being protected by law. Effectively the business would open itself up to the possiblity of discrimination case being brought against it.
 
Caporegime
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Meh your confusing me i didnt do RE in school a simple do bad things to others and bad things will happen to you, a bit like luck ?

So you don't believe in what you can't see but you believe in an invisible force that judges your actions and rewards/punishes you for them?
 
Man of Honour
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It isn't quite as simple as that due to religion being protected by law. Effectively the business would open itself up to the possiblity of discrimination case being brought against it.

This is not the case as showmen in this thread already. They did not win the court cases.
 
Caporegime
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but they had to go through a legal case.

just pass the law make it an unquestionable 'no you cant wear this if we ask you not to, and no you cant sue us either'

that would help to fix the grey area and stop any litigation - and any attempted force of hand based upon a threat to sue someone based upon this request...?
 
Man of Honour
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Regardless the business isn't going to want the hassle and the publicity.
That's a different matter and no need to legalise against. if they are happy with the business so be it.
Obviously some businesses don't agree with you, otherwise there would never of been test cases.

but they had to go through a legal case.

That's how are legal system works. Now a case has happened there is no need for another case.
 
Associate
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i dont like them and dont agree with them. i personally feel they should be banned.
if people in this country get told to take helmets off in the bank etc how can people with a veil get away with it when its still covering the face regardless of religion/faith

i personally feel its a major security risk when the veil only allows the eyes to be seen. it could be anyone under the veil and it can feel threatening. however the veils which allow the face to be seen are ok, my dentist wears one and its ok. I dont find it threatening
 
Permabanned
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An interesting article from the Times today which explains that the rise in Burka's is related to Status, I can't link it, due to the Times new subscription so I'll quote it verbatim:

I never believed this day would come. But fine, I admit it. I agree with the Tory Minister for Immigration. This weekend, Damian Green was asked whether Britain should go down the path of the French and ban the burka.

He told a Sunday newspaper: “Telling people what they can and can’t wear, if they’re just walking down the street, is a rather un-British thing to do.” How true. Thankfully, in this country, people are uncomfortable with dictating what forms of expression should and should not be allowed. Are you gay and proud? Have a civil union! Suspect that whites are the superior race? Vote for the British National Party! Say and do as you wish (as long as you don’t hurt anyone).

But just because you believe in freedom of expression it doesn’t necessarily follow that you are comfortable about the burka issue. I certainly am not. I was brought up in a devoutly Muslim household. Almost all the women in my family wore a headscarf in public, some more tightly than others. It was the norm.

Then for the first time, back when I was an awkward teenager, women wearing veils visited our home. They did not take them off, even when inside. They insisted on sitting in a different room from my father. When I entered the room, they looked away, seemingly offended by my presence.

My childish reaction then still holds true today. I was put out. It was all a bit unnecessary, awkward and rude. It is always dangerous to generalise about British Muslims. Islamic customs and culture differ vastly depending on whether you are Sunni, Shia, Arab, African, Asian, a first-generation immigrant or born here. My experience is that of a British Bangladeshi living in inner-city London. A few years ago, I became aware of more women wearing religious garb — headscarves fixed so that no hair could be seen, or a full veil. I have no doubt that there are a number of women who sincerely believe that this is an outward expression of their faith. I have no argument with them.

But in many other cases, the rise of the veil has little to do with actual faith. It is an ever-escalating contest about moral superiority.

This is because for those of Bangladeshi and Pakistani descent — who make up the vast majority of Muslims in the UK — your family’s status is crucial to your standing within the community.

Status is set by the achievements you can list. Do you own a home and have a steady job and a nice car? Do your kids go to university? Which one? To achieve respect, you need to be able to point to these accomplishments.

But government reports in the past five years have consistently shown that Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are among the poorest in the country. They attend the worst achieving inner-city schools and live in overcrowded homes.

Very few within the British Muslim community leave urban ghettos — from Tower Hamlets to Oldham — to become doctors, lawyers and teachers.

However, there is a less strenuous way to gain status. Be super religious. This goes far beyond praying five times a day. You need to be so religious that you can laud your moral superiority over everyone else. There is nothing in the Koran to suggest that a woman should cover her face. Wearing a headscarf is one thing. But wearing a veil remains an extreme decision — one that I would argue is based on a skewed understanding of Islamic scripture and history. Yet it is considered a symbol of faithfulness.

So young women are encouraged by pushy parents to wear headscarves, and in extreme cases, the burka. The more tightly applied the headgear, the more superior the family. This “moral” brigade are not really representative of the British Muslim community, merely the most visible and vocal.

But moderate Muslims have not tried to argue with those who hold such extreme views. They haven’t called for a more nuanced standpoint , one that recognises that women should be allowed to wear the burka if they choose, but which also questions the value of encouraging people to cover their faces. Alas, for most Muslims this conversation would be too awkward, too uncomfortable, too rude. Starting the argument would be , well, rather un-British.


The author of the article Murad Ahmed has a very good argument and I though it particularly relevent to this thread.
 
Associate
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Motorcyclists are told in banks they must remove their helmets, this is for security reasons, I am assuming that all these women in question do NOT wear those things for passport photo's, or immigration check points in airports! ... so for this reason i see no reason why they should think they can wear them in areas that all other members of the community can not cover their face.

+1 for the ban from me.
 
Associate
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I've seen examples where women have wore the vails in bus passes etc
makes photo id's pointless then

They can't.
i thought they were, and that that was part of the argument, that these places were "public areas" and the arguments raging were based on public areas.

I guess i stand corrected on that point, but i still stand by the "when in rome..." statement
 
Soldato
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So are certain hoodies, motorcycle helmets and the like, but people want to specifically ban the veil. Doesn''t make any sense from a security reason. Either you have, the state impose on our lifes and have all face hiding banned or not.

It's it illegal to have a motorcycle helmet on while in a bank though? Or have i got that wrong? :confused:
 
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