Scottish Elections Result

[Biohazard]

There's a man on the telly having a stroke atm. It's not a very pretty language is it?

RACIST!!!!

 

[Ahleckz]

First of all, thank you Scottish Parliament for allowing a dirty foreigner to vote in the elections!
My vote would have gone to the Pirate Party if they had actually had a manifesto that said more than "No to Copyright" but I ended up voting SNP all the way. I do not believe in the Tories ability to run the country and the Lib Dems have lost their spine since the election. Am quite surprised in the SNP really, when I arrived in Scotland back in 2005 SNP was nowhere near as big as they are now.

Copied what you said to one of the Pirate Party candidates who I'm friends with. If he responds, I shall pop it up in here.

 

[Biohazard]

How did the Priate Party get on??

 

[Kemik]

Which the UK suffers already from greatly?

I'm not seeing much benefit at the present for the status quo..

So resolve that by voting for a party willing to remove inefficiency, rather than split the countries up and promote it.

I'm very much so a believer in the Hong Kong model (not quite to that extreme in implementation) but that's a whole other debate.

I just think your economic reasons don't really stand up. The UK debt would be split up and you'd inherit your share.

 

[Ahleckz]

How did the Priate Party get on??

From my friend: "Over 1000 people in Glasgow and West of Scotland voted Pirate "
I'll pop up his thoughts as and when he posts them.

 

[Metalface Mark]

I know it sounds a bit wild, but yes.

Without the UK overheads, Scotland would at least to start with.

Depending on how England dealt with the collapse of not just the empire but the Union also, they could pull back up. English debt is just as bad as Scottish debt, and the reason we both have debt is the 'UK'.





Yes really, and that is unquantifiable nonsense and you know it.

So has Scotland overnight had a landslide movement to HATRED?

Really?






If it didn't sort itself out it would have an effect on the other nations, so no.

I wouldn't want to see my neighbours struggle?

It's a shame that those neighbours themself don't really care about anyone else however. But the intent is true and honest, not xenophobic.

There is nothing to suggest all the countries would flourish seperately.

Why do you continue to try putting words into other peoples mouths, where did I say there was an overnight landslide into hatred? There always has been Nationalists who hate the English, there always will be, just as there is the same in England.

Ill tell you what, you wear an England football strip this weekend, and tell me on Monday whether its all a myth. To be fair to you, these are the kind of people shown below that would vote for an independant Scotland chiefly because they are bigots rather than having reasonable opinions which can be discussed such as we are having today, I hold no grudges against people who want an independant Scotland without a bigoted agenda.

The basic fact is, you dont know whether we would flourish or not, nationalists will peddle that line, are Ireland flourishing? Is Iceland flourishing? We would be up the same creek as any other european country at the moment whether we were part of Britain or an independent Scotland.

 

[leaskovski]

Evocative statement with no basis. Come on, you're better than that.



We've discussed this before, and iirc it's basically a lot of nonsense with no basis in law. It's outdated information which occasionally gets tramped out now and then but quickly goes back into the cupboard when it remembers it isn't actually accurate. I'm sure if you searched "shetland denmark oil" or something like that you'd find the thread.

It seems to come up in every scottish independance thread really.

 

[Biohazard]

So resolve that by voting for a party willing to remove inefficiency, rather than split the countries up and promote it.

The only people to do that are the Tories in Westminster, and after how the treated Scotland in the 80's no one here will touch them again.

This is why this is the only available option to Scotland.

Essentially if Westminster had been kinder to Scotland as a percieved largely irrelevent backwater Celtic fringe we might not be in this situation, but again Westminster is VERY good at reinforcing it's own decline by refusing to move forward with progression.

I'm very much so a believer in the Hong Kong model (not quite to that extreme in implementation) but that's a whole other debate.

I believe in neoliberal economics; but the HK example isn't great.

It has the worst rich/poor divide in the world.

It's other achievements away from that are still admirable.

I just think your economic reasons don't really stand up. The UK debt would be split up and you'd inherit your share.

They do, oh yes they do.

The UK economically can't even pull a twitch.

 

[LLBDTiberio]

Thanks Ahleckz .

 

[Biohazard]

There is nothing to suggest all the countries would flourish seperately.

Yes there is.

There is also every indication the UK will continue to drown in debt.

Why do you continue to try putting words into other peoples mouths, where did I say there was an overnight landslide into hatred? There always has been Nationalists who hate the English, there always will be, just as there is the same in England.

It isn't an exlusive problem to the nationalist party, and it largely unquantifiable. I've not encounted much in the party, but people on doorsteps - yes.

But, I see no reason to draw xenophobia in as England has a worse problem with it than Scotland does.

Ill tell you what, you wear an England football strip this weekend, and tell me on Monday whether its all a myth.

You wear the Scotland top in London then, because I don't even have to be so blatent to get abuse so I have no idea why you are pulling up a circular event that exists regardless of political nationalism.

To be fair to you, these are the kind of people shown below that would vote for an independant Scotland chiefly because they are bigots rather than having reasonable opinions which can be discussed such as we are having today, I hold no grudges against people who want an independant Scotland without a bigoted agenda.

You get bigoted people, on all sorts of levels. It isn't representative of a positive civic scotland politically.

The basic fact is, you dont know whether we would flourish or not, nationalists will peddle that line, are Ireland flourishing? Is Iceland flourishing?

We would not be continuing down the path we are.

What is the alternative, stay in the Union and stay in debt? Something has to give, and Westminster isn't very good at dancing to new tunes...

We would be up the same creek as any other european country at the moment whether we were part of Britain or an independent Scotland.

You are not that far away from 'the' logical jump tbh.

 

[Richie]

Ill tell you what, you wear an England football strip this weekend, and tell me on Monday whether its all a myth. To be fair to you, these are the kind of people shown below that would vote for an independant Scotland chiefly because they are bigots rather than having reasonable opinions which can be discussed such as we are having today, I hold no grudges against people who want an independant Scotland without a bigoted agenda.

Oh please, you could do the same with you wearing a Scotland strip or leaving a similar car tarted up in Saltires and tartan in the middle of, for eample, Manchester.


Edit: Do you really think this happens just in Scotland. Do what you suggest (wearing the England top) in many countries and you will end up getting abuse due to the reputation... Is it right? No, but it happens

 

[Ahleckz]

I've experienced anti-English sentiment towards me, in a professional setting within Scotland. I wouldn't say that the SNP are encouraging this as that is very unfair. However, it is rife.

The response that Paxman reads is absurd though - but it was a stunt, but still telling.

 

[Kemik]

Essentially if Westminster had been kinder to Scotland as a percieved largely irrelevent backwater Celtic fringe we might not be in this situation, but again Westminster is VERY good at reinforcing it's own decline by refusing to move forward with progression.

Scotland gets allocated a crazy amount of the budget. I honestly don't know the percentages but I fail to see how Scotland can financially support things like free University fees, free prescriptions, etc while England can't unless they're cutting back elsewhere that England are pouring money in to and I don't see where that's happening.

I'm more than willing to be told how you guys can afford that while we can't. The only reason I can see is that you're getting a bigger slice of the pie than you proportionally should already. Maybe it's just good negotiation skills from the SNP.

 

[Ahleckz]

Woo, professor from Strathclyde Uni on the telly! None of that Glasgow nonsense. - I'm very racist towards Glasgow Uni students.

 

[Metalface Mark]

Yes there is.

There is also every indication the UK will continue to drown in debt.

Well, show me it then please. Show me the evidence that we would flourish as an independent country and show me the evidence that staying united will continue to drown us in debt.

 

[do_ron_ron]

Yes, allowing people to move onto vocational training schemes instead of staying at school where they will ultimately come out with nothing is a daft idea? Of course it isn't. Some people are better suited to vocational jobs and they should be permitted to go ahead and pursue them instead of being forced through academia where they won't excel and ultimately suffer themselves and also negatively effect other students.

Except, in the UK there has never been a fully funded model like the German model. What usually happens is the politicians are all for it until they see the costs involved. Then they try to get it on the cheap with the resulting fiasco. UK schemes have all ended up as cheap labour for exploitation with no benefits to the young people involved.

Prescription fees is an interesting one and is something blown out of the water. I'm on long term medication and if I had to pay for each item I'd be spending £45 a month. I always bought a prescription prepayment card which drastically reduced it. This is available for all and the majority of people who would have to pay a lot because of an increase would save massively by getting one.
A modest increase in prices won't result in people unable to afford their medication or anything like that.
That being said, I'm glad the fee has been scrapped entirely but if it came back it wouldn't bother me. It certainly isn't a vote changing policy.

Fine, you may not be bothered but there are a lot of people who would be. To put it into your manifesto as an election pledge during the current crisis is dumb.

 

[Ahleckz]

Except, in the UK there has never been a fully funded model like the German model. What usually happens is the politicians are all for it until they see the costs involved. Then they try to get it on the cheap with the resulting fiasco. UK schemes have all ended up as cheap labour for exploitation with no benefits to the young people involved.

Fine, you may not be bothered but there are a lot of people who would be. To put it into your manifesto as an election pledge during the current crisis is dumb.

It's a moot point, as it isn't going to happen. But surely you can see the benefit of allowing young people another alternative to pure academia or nothing?

The Conservatives actually think about how they can afford their manifesto pledges and state such in their manifesto. Some would say it's better to divulge details of how you can afford the measures even if it's will get some backs up than do what the SNP do and just make promises willynilly and when questioned about costing refuse to accept the figures that experts quote and claim they know better.
Truthful, transparent politics is better than pie in the sky thinking.

 

[Richie]

Scotland gets allocated a crazy amount of the budget. I honestly don't know the percentages...

Oh god, not "The Barnett Formula" argument.

It might be interesting to know that NI get a greater percentage per head than Scotland and Wales is very close behind (circa £500) ALL of which are still much more than England get.

England £7,121
Scotland £8,623
Wales £8,139
Northern Ireland £9,385

** 2007 figures - £/head of population

I realise the figures are a bit old but I couldnt find more recent figures.

Now I don't think it's right that England get far less than the other countries but I also think it unfair that, out of all the countries above, its Scotland that is always at the receiving end of this argument when, quite clearly, it receives far less than others.

Why is there no Wales or NI bashing when someone mentions the Barnett Formula given their position is almost equal or, in NI's case, even worse?

 

[Metalface Mark]

Actually, perhaps the free stuff we get is to the detriment of other things. The last few years the roads have been in the worst state they have ever been, I would rather have a decent transport system and good roads than not pay for a prescription (which really everyone should pay for if they are able to, a complete waste of money giving it free).

 

[slambo69]

The SNP are a terrible, terrible group of people, led by someone who is a public speaker, so is a master of words but no subsistence backed by a poor degree. Every one of my professors and myself despise their energy policy. How they can build coal and gas power stations instead of nuclear - against all expert advice - is beyond me. The only reason I can think of is that it gets votes, which is selfish and pathetic. They would rather pursue gimmick policies like free prescriptions, which might save people some money, but will be offset by a massive rise in energy prices.

Their handling of the edinburgh trams has wasted millions and they are now looking at a new bridge costing billions, I know personally that the construction industry are rubbing their hands at the prospect of ripping off the public again.